User talk:Soetermans/Archive 2022

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Semi-retired

Hi everyone, if you happen to stumble upon my talk page, here's a small explanation for my semi-retiring.

Like for most people, the Coronavirus and the crisis has taken a toll on my mental health. In the last months of 2019 and early 2020, I was working very hard to open my own bar in March 2020. Luckily I didn't sign anything, so I dodged a bullet when the lockdown happened. I managed to get a job at a liquor store, all the while hoping that the crisis would soon be over. Well, you know how that went. For a while I was very active on Wikipedia, with nothing better to do. I haven't been active since September 2020, realizing I was just projecting my frustration and anxiousness about the whole situation in my editing. Not good stuff. Even know, when I look back at my last edits and the alarming red 'your alerts' makes me feel tense.

I'm saying goodbye for now. But who knows what the future holds. I'm going with "semi-retired", I might come back later. I'll be sure to check my talk page now and then, but I'll probably won't comment on issues or discussions. Thanks everyone, and happy editing. soetermans. ↑↑↓↓←→←→ B A TALK 12:50, 11 January 2022 (UTC)

Well, that was shorter than expected. Luckily the worst of the Coronavirus crisis is behind us. I noticed I've been making a ton of small edits again, so I might just as well do them on my own actual account. soetermans. ↑↑↓↓←→←→ B A TALK 05:35, 27 August 2022 (UTC)

Would you consider becoming a New Page Reviewer?

Chart of the New Pages Patrol backlog for the past 6 months. (Purge)

Hi Soetermans,

I've recently been looking for editors to invite to join the new page reviewing team, and after reviewing your editing history, I think you would be a good candidate. Reviewing/patrolling a page doesn't take much time but it requires a good understanding of Wikipedia policies and guidelines; the new page reviewing team needs help from experienced users like yourself.

Would you please consider becoming a New Page Reviewer? Kindly read the tutorial before making your decision (if it looks daunting, don't worry, most pages are easy to review, and habits are quick to develop). If this looks like something that you can do, please consider joining us. If you choose to apply, you can drop an application over at WP:PERM/NPR. If you have questions, please feel free to drop a message on my talk page or at the reviewer's discussion board.

Cheers, and hope to see you around, (t · c) buidhe 22:18, 2 June 2022 (UTC)

Forza Horizon - booth babe?

Just curious what the rationale for removing this is. I don't see how it's any different promotionally than any other picture, be it playing the game or whatever. Now granted I'll take a player demoing the game over a lady in front of a car, but it still is promotional. Thoughts? --Teancum (talk) 23:53, 4 September 2022 (UTC)

Hi @Teancum:,
MOS:IMAGERELEVANCE says "Images must be significant and relevant in the topic's context, not primarily decorative." The topic is racing video game Forza Horizon. I think that a picture of a promotional model, or "Booth-babe at E3 2012" as it is actually titled, is solely decorative and doesn't help the reader to a greater understanding of the topic of Forza Horizon. It's a young woman in front of a car. There's nothing in the article about E3 or any other kind of promotion that would merit the inclusion of a picture like that. soetermans. ↑↑↓↓←→←→ B A TALK 07:39, 5 September 2022 (UTC)
Works for me. Thoughts on whether it would be any better should I find a promo image of a car at the booth? I've scoured Flickr but found little in the way of other free images, but I still might come across a better one. I know it doesn't need one, but I'd like to if possible. Thoughts? --Teancum (talk) 00:13, 6 September 2022 (UTC)
I agree, we don't have to have a picture, but if there is one it should have something more to do with the game. A picture of a car featured in the game would make more sense. soetermans. ↑↑↓↓←→←→ B A TALK 07:02, 7 September 2022 (UTC)

Bravely Default II Category Removal

I noticed you removed an edit made to categorize the game as a console exclusive, stating that the game wasn’t a true exclusive. This is wrong since there are multiple different types of exclusives: exclusives (where you can only play a game on one platform), timed exclusives (where you can play a game on a console for a limited amount of time, like Deathloop or Ghostwire: Tokyo), and console exclusives (where a game can be played only on one specific console and PC). Console exclusives are an industry term and becoming more widespread as more games come to PC but done go to other platforms, like with Microsoft Studios and PlayStation bringing their exclusives to PC. Categorizing the game as a Switch console exclusive is the correct term in this instance, since if a player wants to play the game on a console besides PC, they have to play it on the Nintendo Switch. Redquil (talk) 23:10, 30 October 2022 (UTC)

I've nominated the category for deletion. soetermans. ↑↑↓↓←→←→ B A TALK 01:08, 31 October 2022 (UTC)
I've responded already, but the category is necessary to reflect the changing nature of console exclusivity in the modern game industry. Redquil (talk) 02:13, 31 October 2022 (UTC)

Inquiry about Podcasts vs TV when it comes to episode detail

I appreciate your dedication to wikipedia as an editor and I apologize that objection to edits somewhat inherently creates a combative stance between users. Please know I am simply trying to point out a conflict between the actual reality of wikipedia television entries & the way the NOTTVGUIDE standard is applied. The standard states that Wikipedia is NOT: "Electronic program guides. An article on a broadcaster should not list upcoming events, current promotions, current schedules, format clocks, etc., although mention of major events, promotions or historically significant program lists and schedules may be acceptable." This standard appears to restrict the placement of scheduled/upcoming events but doesn't really point out an issue with listing Episodes and their attendant content - a distinction very evident on the page of nearly every television program, which often feature extensive programming guides including episode numbers, plot summaries, air dates and ratings.

Why than, would a podcast be second-rate media that cannot be afforded similar structure in Wikipedia? While I understand the principle behind "ITSPOPULAR" not being a defense in this matter (as podcasts can be started up by anyone and we wouldn't want Wikipedia flooded with random podcasts with low-listenership) if we are talking about a podcast from two blue-link individuals, surely the notability of those hosts, as themselves being notable enough to have wikipedia pages, and indeed the notability imbued by the very existence of their podcast as an extant wikipedia page, is enough to garner this podcast the status of being an establish media entity. Such is the case with Off Menu. Why should it not be afforded the same level of detail as a television show?

Again, please do understand that I submit this inquiry along with a good deal of respect for what you do here. But I also ask that you don't summarily dismiss the points I make above just because I'm writing to you from an IP. I may not be an experienced user and moderator here, but I read the ISNOT Guide and even so, I simply do not think the table you deleted was violating the integrity of wikipedia, quite the opposite. 2600:1700:5650:6720:AD95:D77A:482B:A5B1 (talk) 16:40, 3 November 2022 (UTC)

Hi 2600:1700:5650:6720:AD95:D77A:482B:A5B1,
Thank you for your message. I'll try to reply in detail later tonight (I'm on UTC+1, Central European Time). soetermans. ↑↑↓↓←→←→ B A TALK 17:10, 3 November 2022 (UTC)
Hi 2600:1700:5650:6720:AD95:D77A:482B:A5B1,
Sorry I couldn't reply fully before. I appreciate you taking the time to write me a message. For what it's worth, I didn't consider your previous section heading to be rude.
What we're talking about is a very long, very detailed list of episodes, about when which guest came on and what they ate. WP:NOTDIRECTORY and WP:NOTPLOT also come to mind. What's notable is the podcast in itself. That's the subject of the article. And notability is WP:NOTINHERITED: that the podcast in itself meets notability does not somehow mean every episode should be mentioned here. Wikipedia is not about WP:EVERYTHING.
Sadly, there's no proper WP:PODCAST guideline yet. If there was, I'm convinced that episode listings like this are considered inappropriate. There's WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS: other articles and subjects are out there and they're treated differently.
Lastly, the list was entirely referenced by a WP:PRIMARY source. It might show that these episodes happened, for Wikipedia's purposes they add very little. SIGNIFICANT COVERAGE by independent, reliable sources for inclusion.
Hope this helps. Finally, there's nothing stopping you and other fans of the podcast to start your own Fandom wiki about the podcast, without Wikipedia's pesky guidelines. soetermans. ↑↑↓↓←→←→ B A TALK 19:36, 3 November 2022 (UTC)
Thank you very much for the reply. PLEASE NOTE I AM **NOT** THE PERSON TRYING TO INITIATE AN EDIT WAR ON THE PAGE. I did the reversion once and will not again.
These are informative points and I generally concede the argument given the *existing* applicable guidelines. Your point regarding Fandom is well taken.
I will note -- and I think we may both understand as much -- that we run into a bit of a regulatory impasse here: "there's no proper WP:PODCAST guideline yet. If there was, I'm convinced that episode listings like this are considered inappropriate". I respect that conviction and ultimately I'm heeding it here because this is the last note I'll make on the matter. Nonetheless, I DO think that it's probably well past time for the mod community here to come to some formalized understanding behind the intersection of notable episodic media (TV) and podcasts that garner similar notability as an entity unto themselves (aside from even their own hosts' notability, as you noted with Wikipedia:NOTINHERITED and the way that episodic material is documented. Perhaps in the instance of the deleted off menu material, simply an episode number and guest (not their food) would have been a more appropriate entry under some theoretical future guidelines where podcasts at a certain threshold of notability are afforded the same deference as TV. Ultimately it's just about fairness towards a medium that in MANY instances is more widely enjoyed and distributed than TV. 2600:1700:5650:6720:AD95:D77A:482B:A5B1 (talk) 22:07, 3 November 2022 (UTC)

Off Menu article

I suspect we may need to ask for this article to be protected. I had suspicions some time ago that it was becoming a Wikia/Fandom style article and clearly a fan is desperate to keep the details online. Could the back and forth be taken somewhere to avoid 3RR/Editwars concerns? doktorb wordsdeeds 19:44, 3 November 2022 (UTC)

Hi @Doktorbuk:, thanks for your message. I talked directly to @Wii35:, a major contributor to the article, but you're right, this has been reverted by anon IPs. Protecting the article for a while might do the trick. soetermans. ↑↑↓↓←→←→ B A TALK 20:20, 3 November 2022 (UTC)
I notice that my edit has been reverted already and I'm wary of entering an edit war. Might leave this with you unless things need my attention. I'm not an admin so my powers are limited. doktorb wordsdeeds 21:28, 3 November 2022 (UTC)

Hi, guys. I am a moderator of the 'Off Menu' community over om Reddit. We're a relatively small community, only 20K or so, but the episode resource is heavily used by fans of Off Menu as it acts a synopsis for episodes.

I wonder if a dedicated 'List of Off Menu Episodes' subpage would be more suitable? I understand if you'd like to lock the page for the moment, I was just wondering if there is a solution as all the data contributed was very meticulously curated and I'd hate to see it lost.

If this will be a point of contention though, I can look into keeping the data on the subreddit wiki.

I'd love to hear your thoughts. ConorTully (talk) 21:03, 3 November 2022 (UTC)

Hi @ConorTully:,
A common misconception is that old revisions aren't "deleted". For instance, this version is still available, with the episode listing still there. Except for blatant copyright violations or sharing of personal information, old versions aren't purged from Wikipedia. It's just that it shouldn't be presented as the article in its proper form. But feel free to move that information elsewhere. You can freely start an Off Menu wiki at Fandom for instance. soetermans. ↑↑↓↓←→←→ B A TALK 22:29, 3 November 2022 (UTC)
Hi @Soetermans,
Thank you very much for your reply. That's great to hear that at least the information is not lost, I have migrated that data to our subreddit now. Unfortunately Reddit does not all as much formatting functionality compared to Wikipedia, but it'll have to do for now. Maybe someone who is not part of the Reddit community will start a Fandom wiki at some point. In the meantime, thank you for all your work you do. Best of luck. 2A02:8084:9042:F280:DDE8:6203:50EC:BEB3 (talk) 22:52, 3 November 2022 (UTC)

Ghost Recon Wildlands

Hi Soetermans,

In the Ghost Recon Wildland's article, why did you cut the paragraph:

" GameStar praises varied scenery and sharp textures. They call the shooting "convincing" and praise multiplayer, both co-op as well as player vs player. However they criticise writing of the story, the dialogue and characters. In the end they score the game 85 out of 100. "

By writing in the edition comment "reception inappropriate" what did you mean?

I admit I did not have time to transform those reception outlines into past tense, and the game is 5 and half a year old, so I should have changed to past tense. MichalZim (talk) 08:34, 5 November 2022 (UTC)

Hi @MichalZim:,
Thanks for your message. I've reinstated the GameStar bit. I was overzealous and thought it was a run-of-the-mill game website but double checking, I see GameStar is considered a WP:VG/RS. Sorry about that! soetermans. ↑↑↓↓←→←→ B A TALK 09:04, 5 November 2022 (UTC)

Mass CfD

I've just closed the discussions on November 5 for the video games by topic cats. I'd be happy to create a mass CfD nomination for you, if you provide me with a list of the categories. — Qwerfjkltalk 10:17, 13 November 2022 (UTC)

Hi @Qwerfjkl:, thanks for your offer. Usually I'm editing on my phone and I just stumble upon unnecessary or odd categories. I'll try to get a list first and message you when I've got something, is that an idea? soetermans. ↑↑↓↓←→←→ B A TALK 13:18, 14 November 2022 (UTC)
Sure. I mostly edit on my tablet; I tend to use Bandersnatch for mass editing. — Qwerfjkltalk 16:40, 14 November 2022 (UTC)

First five I ran into. I'll look for some more.

soetermans. ↑↑↓↓←→←→ B A TALK 03:40, 16 November 2022 (UTC)

Searching Category: intitle:"video games about" might help. — Qwerfjkltalk 07:10, 16 November 2022 (UTC)
 Done with Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2022 December 9#Category:Video games about X — Qwerfjkltalk 11:50, 9 December 2022 (UTC)

Note

Just a quick note. Since we're being transparent about quoting people : )

Use of "ham sandwich" as an example originally came from the wise and respected User:Hiding way back in the day during some fiction-related notability discussions, as I recall.

To paraphrase another esteemed thinker: We all stand on the shoulders of giants.

I hope you're having an awesome day: ) - jc37 02:45, 14 November 2022 (UTC)

Hi @Jc37:, thank you for your message. If I happen to use the quote again, how would you like to see it being used? Here's your wording on the category on video games with brothers, for reference.

Does the work in question merely contain examples of the item in question? Or is the subject of the work the item in question.

So does it merely include one or more ham sandwiches, or is it a work with the theme of ham sandwiches? or in this case - Are there merely brothers in the work? Or is it a work with theme of brothers. And note, that's a theme about brothers/brotherhood in general, not two specific brothers.

I think it's fair to say that this category is simply filled with examples of works containing brothers, not works with brothers as its theme.

soetermans. ↑↑↓↓←→←→ B A TALK 13:22, 14 November 2022 (UTC)
mainly just link back to whatever you're quoting.
And I'm starting to think maybe there's a guideline on categorising fictional works that's waiting to be written. But there's been so much precedent over the years, I'm not sure where to start lol - jc37 10:42, 15 November 2022 (UTC)

Off Menu redux

Hey, sorry to bother you this early. List of Episodes of Off Menu With Ed Gamble and James Acaster has been created. I've CSD'd it though probably not the right category. If you can't deal with it could you advise how? Thanks doktorb wordsdeeds 06:56, 17 November 2022 (UTC)

Oh hi @Doktorbuk:, when I saw your message a couple of days I ago I immediately went to the discussion page and completely forgot to reply. Sorry about that! soetermans. ↑↑↓↓←→←→ B A TALK 12:09, 21 November 2022 (UTC)

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Re:Robert Topala

Hi there, I'm Schminnte. I didn't quite grasp that this page has been deleted a few times, but the fact that you didn't notify me when deleting a page makes me question why there wasn't an AfD discussion? I realise now that it was most likely you assumed the original creator had made this, which is not true. Anyway now, I'm going to restore the version, as without an AfD I feel that it has enough references; just in case, I'm going to add more. Thanks, Schminnte (talk • contribs) 08:24, 22 December 2022 (UTC)

I would just like to add that this version of the page was in fact reviewed by the new page patrol, I really don't see why it was deleted. Schminnte (talk • contribs) 08:29, 22 December 2022 (UTC)

Hi @Schminnte:, I see you're still fairly new around here. Maybe it's new to you, but it wasn't deleted, but redirected. New page patrol doesn't automatically mean articles meet stand-alone notability. I'll nominate the article for deletion. soetermans. ↑↑↓↓←→←→ B A TALK 08:56, 22 December 2022 (UTC)

No sorry, I think you don't understand what I'm trying to say here. My revision of the page, turning it into an article, was reviewed, not the redirect. Schminnte (talk • contribs) 09:52, 22 December 2022 (UTC)

Happy New Year!

Happy New Year!

Soetermans,
Have a prosperous, productive and enjoyable New Year, and thanks for your contributions to Wikipedia.
Shooterwalker (talk) 17:20, 31 December 2022 (UTC)

   Send New Year cheer by adding {{subst:Happy New Year fireworks}} to user talk pages.

Shooterwalker (talk) 17:20, 31 December 2022 (UTC)

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