User talk:True Pagan Warrior/Archive 7

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Zephyr Teachout

please review 01:20, 9 February 2020‎ revision 939838446 of Zephyr Teachout I consider it an improvement and since you have added to the article before, you may have a relevant opinion.

T3g5JZ50GLq (talk) 01:59, 9 February 2020 (UTC)

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Possessives

Please don't make changes to the possessive form like "Holmes's". This is contrary to our style guide; see MOS:POSS. If you'd like to make an exception in this particular case please discuss it on the talk page first. GA-RT-22 (talk) 15:42, 17 October 2021 (UTC)

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note to self

Ideomotor_phenomenon--~TPW 18:44, 15 February 2022 (UTC)

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Recent edit for Miraculous

Hi there! I just wanted to discuss the removal of the "Controversies" paragraph you did. I'd like to make a couple of points, if that's okay. 1) The paragraph discusses about the FAN opinion, so of course you're going to have to cite Twitter for that- that's where a lot of social media activity is. 2) There aren't that many sources besides. 3) Twitter in this instance is reliable enough because if you actually look at the tweets, they show and present the controversial issue.

I'd love to be able to have a discussion on that, but regardless, have a great day. Pohjamadesse1 (talk) 05:05, 27 April 2022 (UTC)

Wikipedia's standards for reliable, verifiable sources aren't lowered because better sources are unavailable; that's entirely the point. Nevertheless, if you wish to discuss then it would be better to do it on the article's talk page. Feel free to let me know if you start such a thread.--~TPW 16:47, 27 April 2022 (UTC)

Mass removal from Cthulhu

In the edit comment for this edit, you wrote "unsourced material may be removed at any time". Which is, of course, true, it's a Wiki, any material, sourced or not, may be removed at any time, that's the risk we all face with any content we contribute here. But you wrote it as if you were citing a policy or guideline. Were you? If so, which policy or guideline were you citing? --GRuban (talk) 20:02, 5 May 2022 (UTC)

I was quoting Template:In popular culture, which is presently placed at the top of the section from which I deleted the material without sources.~TPW 01:26, 6 May 2022 (UTC)
Ah. That actually says "Unsourced material may be challenged and removed." Thank you. --GRuban (talk) 02:27, 6 May 2022 (UTC)
Very well, then I paraphrased it as best I could from memory since the template wasn't visible while I was making that edit. If you feel that my edit in any way violated policy, or should otherwise be reconsidered, the talk page of the article will likely generate more interest than discussing it here. ~TPW 16:38, 6 May 2022 (UTC)
I do feel that you deleted too much, yes. We're here cooperating to write the best possible article about Cthulhu that we can, right? It's hard to say we can do that without recognizing the incredible impact of the Call of Cthulhu role-playing game, board games, etc. The way that people first encounter Cthulhu these days isn't through Lovecraft's work, it's specifically through games and movies and so forth. So I'd appreciate it if rather than deleting, you made an effort to cite most of those many paragraphs that you deleted, and only delete that which really isn't important. But of course I can't make you do that, per policy. Just appeal to your better nature. --GRuban (talk) 20:28, 6 May 2022 (UTC)
There is a reason for the "in popular culture" template: that kind of section attracts information that generally cannot be cited in reliable, verifiable sources. That's why those tidbits accumulate there at all: information that can be properly sourced is likely to be placed somewhere else in the article. Trivia sections like this are often given a pass by editors who scrutinize other sections much more carefully.
I, too, am looking to improve articles with every edit, and I would not have made that edit for any other reason.
Again, I encourage you to discuss this on the talk page of the article, where other editors interested in the subject are far more likely to respond. Policy on Wikipedia arises from consensus, and consensus can change, but that won't happen unless you choose a different forum for raising this concern. I appreciate that you reached out to me, but you need a wider audience if you're looking to revisit any of the five pillars of Wikipedia. Please feel free to let me know if you do open such a thread elsewhere, and I'll certainly participate if I am led to.~TPW 00:15, 7 May 2022 (UTC)
I'm not revisiting any of the five pillars, I'm appealing to your better nature, to build rather than destroy. --GRuban (talk) 18:46, 7 May 2022 (UTC)
My better nature tells me that the following the policies and processes that are in place are how we build, and allowing unsourced material to accumulate over years is how we destroy. I very much prefer to build.--~TPW 20:43, 9 May 2022 (UTC)

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West Gilgo proposed deletion.

For a 18 year old article, it definitely needed to have some citations added, which I've done. Thanks for the nudge. dm (talk) 04:52, 26 June 2022 (UTC)

Thanks for having the knowledge. ~TPW 17:05, 27 June 2022 (UTC)

M>Tram / M-Tram

If the correct way to write it is M-Tram, there are probably 20 pages (maybe more) that will need changing from M>Tram or M>Train (heavy rail counter part). Almost all I have seen in the past use this other format in article text. -- ThylacineHunter (talk) 03:10, 28 June 2022 (UTC)

These are on pages about tram depots, tram companies, and train companies; also possibly on tram types, tram routes, train routes, and train (and carriage) types; amongst other places. -- ThylacineHunter (talk) 03:15, 28 June 2022 (UTC)

I try to base my actions on Wikipedia policy and guideline, rather than what's been done on other pages. Let me know if your preference is rooted in either. All the best. ~TPW 14:15, 28 June 2022 (UTC)

Speedy deletion contested: One for One (Julian Austin album)

Hello True Pagan Warrior. I am just letting you know that I contested the speedy deletion of One for One (Julian Austin album), a page you tagged for speedy deletion, because of the following concern: The article makes a credible assertion of importance or significance, sufficient to pass A7. Thank you. BangJan1999 16:36, 7 July 2022 (UTC)

Thank you! ~TPW 16:52, 7 July 2022 (UTC)

Your proposed deletion of Daisy Whitney

You recently proposed deletion of Daisy Whitney, but the page in question has already been deleted and recreated; the proposed deletion process is only intended for uncontroversial deletions, and if the page gets recreated after deletion then that's normally evidence that the deletion isn't uncontroversial. As such, it's unlikely that an administrator would be able to act on the {{prod}} (there's a policy specifically disallowing proposed deletion being used for pages that have been recreated after an AfD deletion). Sometimes, pages that are deleted at AfD can be speedily deleted if recreated, but so much time has elapsed since the previous deletion that it would make more sense to have a new discussion. I'd recommend using the articles for deletion process instead – it's more suitable for cases where there's historically been disagreement about what to do with the page. --ais523 15:26, 12 July 2022 (UTC)

I agree! I didn't see that there was a prior deletion discussion, or I would have considered that option. Thanks for letting me know. ~TPW 15:36, 12 July 2022 (UTC)

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Changing direct quotes

I've reverted your edit here, because you changed a quote for no apparent reason: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Roy_Sullivan&diff=1105953764&oldid=1105590196 -- It baffles me that you've been editing here since 2007 and dont know that quotes shouldnt just simply be edited --FMSky (talk) 23:42, 22 August 2022 (UTC)

It baffles me that you've been here for nearly two years and haven't learned how to assume good faith and leave talk messages accordingly. Guess we're at an impasse. All the best. ~TPW 14:45, 23 August 2022 (UTC)

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Sports caps

I've reverted your move of Rowing at the 1988 Summer Olympics – Men's coxed four. I'm not sure that MOS:SPORTCAPS supports what you were doing. But more importantly, it has to be consistent across all the rowing events and the gender, which appears after the endash, is always capitalised. That is not to say that we could not change this, but if we do, we'd have to do it for all Olympic rowing articles. There is absolutely no way that this could be done without having a formal move discussion or an RfC. Schwede66 20:53, 22 September 2022 (UTC)

Understood! Thanks for raising this in such a courteous manner. ~TPW 01:19, 23 September 2022 (UTC)
If you do initiate any formal discussion on this question, please let me know. ~TPW 15:42, 23 September 2022 (UTC)
I don’t plan to do so. Schwede66 19:43, 25 September 2022 (UTC)

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Ndash capitals and tennis

There was a recent large rfc with MOS and tennis articles. The wording after the ndash was something like "Tournament – Men's Singles." It was decided that per MOS Caps and ndash, all articles would be changed to "Tournament – Men's singles." Please don't change the first letter after the ndash to lower case in tennis articles. I've had to revert a bunch. Thanks. Fyunck(click) (talk) 18:15, 29 September 2022 (UTC)

Thanks for bringing that to my attention. It might be worth it to expand the rfc to cover all athletics, because I do not see how any editor will know that there's an arbitrary preference one way or the other. ~TPW 18:18, 29 September 2022 (UTC)
You're probably right, but that rfc was rambunctious just to get it to where it is now with a first capitalization after the ndash; the ndash essentially separating two separate headers. My blood pressure is not anxious to get into it again. Cheers. Fyunck(click) (talk) 20:10, 29 September 2022 (UTC)

Understandable. Emotional value sometimes creeps in to capitalization. ~TPW 08:57, 1 October 2022 (UTC)

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MOSTITLES

WP:MOSTITLES very explicitly deals with titles of creative works, not titles of office. 67.180.143.89 (talk) 19:15, 27 November 2022 (UTC)

Yep, should have said MOS:PEOPLETITLES. Thanks for catching that. ~TPW 17:30, 28 November 2022 (UTC)

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Pony Penning

Hi. I changed the article back to Pony Penning. Please discuss here Talk:Pony Penning#Name of article if you think there should be a change. Semper Fi! FieldMarine (talk) 13:16, 1 January 2023 (UTC)

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MOS:SCIMATH v. WP:CHEMPREFIX

Hi True Pagan Warrior. I notice that you have moved 1,2,3-Benzothiadiazole to 1,2,3-benzothiadiazole, justifying that by MOS:SCIMATH. However, as far as I know, chemicals are an exception to that rule, as laid out at WP:CHEMPREFIX. There are a very large number of articles about organic chemicals which have titles starting with digits, for example 1,2-Dichloroethane. It would be appropriate to discuss any change of the capitalisation at one of the Talk Pages of our Project (e.g. WT:CHEMS) if you really believe the established convention should be changed. Regards. Mike Turnbull (talk) 19:25, 27 January 2023 (UTC)

Given CHEMPREFIX is a "wikipedia guideline" supported by WP consensus, I have added it to SCIMATH. DMacks (talk) 15:32, 29 January 2023 (UTC)
Thanks! Given what I discovered in reviewing the sources for just that one chemical, I find the consensus curious. Any idea how I can figure out what sources were drawn on to arrive at that consensus? Based on what I reviewed, it's possible that it's time for consensus to change in this case. ~TPW 14:19, 30 January 2023 (UTC)
@True Pagan Warrior I searched around and found the discussion from 2005 at WT:WikiProject_Chemicals/Archive_2005#New_activity_proposed:_chemistry_style_guide which in turn refers to the draft still at User:Physchim62/Style guidelines. This includes the same guidance as is now at WP:CHEMPREFIX. I was not involved in that discussion but as a professional organic chemist for >30 years I fully agree with the original recommendations. The frequent error made by many chemists is to write the names of natural products like nicotine as always-capitalised, which of course they should not be because they are not proper nouns. The convention that names like 1,2-dichloroethane are used in identical fashion to dichloroethane or nicotine, capitalised at their first letter in Wikipedia titles and if the first word in a sentence is not only of long standing but one that would be difficult to overturn. You may try if you wish! Mike Turnbull (talk) 15:25, 30 January 2023 (UTC)
No, I very much understand how emotionally attached people in certain professions are to capitalizing terms that they feel are important to their work. ~TPW 15:41, 30 January 2023 (UTC)
The 2020 ACS Style Guide (doi:10.1021/acsguide.40603) instructs:
The names of chemical compounds may consist of locants, descriptors, and syllabic portions. Locants and descriptors can be numerals, element symbols, small capital letters, Greek letters, Latin letters, italic words and letters, and combinations of these. The syllabic portions of chemical names are the word portions; they are treated like other common nouns: use roman type, keep them lowercase in text and capitalize them at the beginnings of sentences and in titles.
In general, WP chemistry style tries to follow published style-guides from the major chemistry bodies. DMacks (talk) 20:08, 30 January 2023 (UTC)

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Reading Talk archives also help

In addition to reading Talk:Internment archives, you may also want to familiarize yourself with MOS:BOLDREDIRECT. "Concentration camp" redirects to Internment. Pinchme123 (talk) 18:15, 5 March 2023 (UTC)

I see you've had past issues with how you've edited that particular article. I will therefore clarify: when an editor suggests taking an issue to talk, the editor means the talk page of the article. That ensures that uninvolved editors weigh in, to generate consensus. You should certainly tag me when you do that. ~TPW 19:01, 5 March 2023 (UTC)
I don't have an issue with the article, you do. If you feel the need to overturn 8.5 years of consensus, and go against the very MOS you pointed to, feel free to take it to Talk to find that new consensus. --Pinchme123 (talk) 19:38, 5 March 2023 (UTC)

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