User talk:Waggie/Archives/2020/October
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A puppy for you!
IRC thoughts
Hi, I saw your nomination for the Arbcom electoral commission (best of luck!), and noted the discussion above about IRC. In particular, I noticed you were frustrated that (apparently) very few users you fielded on the help channel appeared to be good faith, and to be honest I'm not too surprised at that. In today's world, very few people use IRC except for technically savvy people, and somebody who can spot a dangling pointer bug at 20 paces is probably not going to need help on Wikipedia. Unless it's something like "does anyone have a better source than 'x', such as a book?" which isn't the sort of thing that general volunteers without a particular subject expertise would be familiar with. So, all things being equal, I think it's not too surprising you get hammered by trolls and cranks.
I had a quick look around, seeing if there was some sort of alternative - basically a self-hosted equivalent of LiveChat with a GPL license (I assume it would have to be a compatible licence with what the servers currently host). I couldn't find anything obvious; I know there was a LiveZilla project but that appears to have been shut down. Anyway, progress on this needs the involvement of the WMF, and a recognition that IRC has a systemic bias that means it's no longer suitable for its intended purpose. I'll clarify that this is not a criticism of any of your contributions on IRC (I wouldn't know where to find the channel and don't have a use for it, for starters!), just I think there is a bigger problem here that needs addressing. As one of the IRC help regulars, perhaps you could help start discussion moving in the right direction? Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 12:31, 5 October 2020 (UTC)
- Hi Ritchie333, I fear you may have misinterpreted my response above. We field quite a few good faith users in the help channel. Many of whom we are able to help quite successfully. I stated that the problem of trolls and LTAs was pernicious (and it is), but I had no intent to imply that this represented a majority of the visitors to the channel, or even a majority of the traffic. The demographics of visitors tends towards COI editors with drafts of questionable notability and no experience on IRC (who are prime targets for the people I expressed concerns about), and people involved in content disputes (whom we very explicitly direct towards on-wiki dispute resolution practices, and provide explanations of policy to). Also, most of the visitors to the help channel are completely new to IRC and have been directed to it via one of our help pages that direct to a "live chat", alongside other on-wiki help options. As far as alternatives, many have been explored, but all have been either impractical or incompatible for various reasons. Discord is one such example, but is undesirable (IMHO) because it is centrally controlled by a for-profit corporation, requires the user provide personal information to a third-party, and the privacy policy does not match ours in spirit. Additionally, managing the server(s) ourselves would require a level of expertise on the part of more volunteers than currently have experience now. If a more viable option becomes available, I will definitely investigate it, and start a discussion regarding it's use. I must say I'm curious about this "systemic bias" you're referring to, could you please elaborate on this? Waggie (talk) 16:53, 5 October 2020 (UTC)
ACE2020 Electoral Commission
Hello Waggie. Thank you for volunteering to be an election commissioner for the 2020 Arbitration Committee Election. Following the community RfC, other community members were chosen to fill the commission this year. Your continued assistance with the election is still welcome, and you may volunteer as a community coordinator if you would like. — xaosflux Talk 00:24, 17 October 2020 (UTC)