Hello, I JethroBT. Thank you for taking the time to review and close this RfC at the Bernie Sanders article. I am contacting you because I am considering filing a request for a formal review of the closure, but I would rather not launch such a time-consuming process. If you could please review and address the specific concerns I have outlined below, perhaps we can avoid the bureaucratic headaches and additional drama.
Full disclosure: I have edited the 'Religion=' field in the Sanders article exactly twice. The first time, believing much the same way as you, I edited the field so that it displayed: Religion = Jewish. Then after reading more closely what the reliable sources were saying, and paying particular attention to the subject's direct statements of self-identification, I realized my error. That is when I made my second edit to the 'Religion=' field, blanking it to bring it into compliance with Wikipedia policy and also with the subject's self-identification. Wikipedia policy, as detailed below, instructs us to leave that field blank and unused except in very specific and restricted instances. Nowhere in your closure explanation, or in your responses to subsequent questions about it on your Talk page, have you explained your reasoning for using the highly restricted 'Religion=' field. You do link to the WP:BLPCAT restriction in your closing statement, so I know you are aware of it, but you only acknowledge the first half of it (must self-identify in direct speech with the religious beliefs) while completely ignoring the second requirement (relevance to Sanders' notability). Instead, the closing statement dwelled on the lesser tangential arguments (and even an argument that was never advanced), rather than the core dispute.
I've noted a half-dozen problems with the RfC closure below, but "Problem 1" is reason enough to invalidate the closure all by itself, and might be the only issue I raise in the review to keep it succinct. If you still disagree with this concern, it would be great if you could explain your position to me more fully, before a formal review is requested. As evidenced above, I am always open to changing and even reversing my position if new information and reasoning is made available. I also have a second motivation for pushing to remove the policy violations and contradictions from this RfC closure; editors have noted that many other BLP articles use the 'Religion=' field in similar violation of policy without all this commotion. I intend to address that problem in those articles, and would like to be able to confidently reference this RfC closure, among others, in the inevitable discussions that follow. I look forward to working with you on this matter. Best regards, Xenophrenic (talk) 21:12, 19 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Pinging I JethroBT and Guy Macon. If one or both can convince me that a "Close Review" is not warranted in this situation, I would appreciate the input, in whatever venue is most convenient. Xenophrenic (talk) 03:20, 20 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Although I have purposely chosen not the challenge the close (mainly because I am weary of being called anti-Semitic, threatened with having my reputation trashed in the press, etc.), I support it being challenged and will make a brief statement in favor of overturning the decision.
I would suggest the following wording changes:
OLD: "He is careful to insist he is spiritual, and says he believes in a higher power when pressed, because to do otherwise in the United States is political suicide"
PROPOSED NEW: "He is careful to insist he is spiritual, and says he believes in a higher power when pressed. In the United States. doing otherwise is generality considered to be political suicide."
Reason: I am trying to avoid assigning a motive, even though it is probable in this case.
OLD: "The word "Jewish" was added to the 'Religion=' field but not cited as required"
PROPOSED NEW: "The word "Jewish" was added to the 'Religion=' field but the religious meaning of "Jewish" is not cited in the body as required"
Reason: I don't know of a requirement that the citation has to be in the infobox itself. The infobox needs to summarize a key facts found in the body, and the claims made in the body need to be verifiable. Also, we need to make it clear that an "I am Jewish" source (of which there are several) does not support a "Religion: Jewish" claim because "Jewish" can also be a description of culture or ethnicity. --Guy Macon (talk) 05:12, 20 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]
FACT - The RfC asked: Should the infobox in this article include "Religion: Jewish"? You closed it, stating: Consensus supported inclusion of "Jewish" in the religion parameter of article infobox.
FACT - Religious identification is considered by Wikipedia to be a sensitive and often contentious issue, and as such, Wikipedia has set additional specific requirements to be met before a living person's religious beliefs can be highlighted in Categories and Infoboxes.
FACT - The terms "Jewish" and "Judaism" have multiple meanings, are sometimes used interchangeably, and are frequently the source of confusion for both our readers and our sources (and now, RfC closers).
FACT - This is not about reliably sourced information in the body of the article, which is allowed. This RfC is about taking that reliably sourced information and then accurately summarizing it and further highlighting it in the Infobox because it is a defining characteristic of the person's public notability.
Problem 1: You highlighted the subject's religious beliefs, or lack thereof, in an infobox when they are not a relevant part of Sanders' public life or notability, according to reliable published sources. In fact, to the contrary, reliable sources overwhelmingly convey that religion is not a defining part of Sanders' public life or notability. Putting something (or anything) in the 'Religion=' field for Sanders goes against:
WP:BLPCAT: Categories and Infobox fields on religious beliefs (or lack of such) should not be used unless the subject's beliefs are relevant to their public life or notability, according to reliable published sources.
WP:CATGRS: Avoid categorizing people by non-defining characteristics involving gender/ethnicity/sexuality/disability/religion.
WP:NONDEF: A defining characteristic is one that reliable, secondary sources commonly and consistently define, in prose (as opposed to a tabular or list form), the subject as having. If the characteristic would not be appropriate to mention in the lead portion of an article, it is probably not defining. Often, users can become confused between the standards of notability, verifiability, and "definingness". Notability is the test that is used to determine if a person should have their own article. This test, combined with the test of verifiability, is used to determine if particular information should be included in an article about a person. Definingness is the test that is used to determine if a category or infobox field should be created for a particular attribute of a person. In general, it is much easier to verifiably demonstrate that a particular characteristic is notable than to prove that it is a defining characteristic of the person. In cases where a particular attribute about a person is verifiable and notable but not defining, or where doubt exists, an alternative to the Infobox or Category is preferred.
WP:OCEGRS: People should only be categorized by ethnicity or religion if this has significant bearing on their career.
Reliable sources, including Sanders himself, convey that while he is proud of his Jewish ethnicity, being religiously Jewish is not a defining characteristic of Sanders' public life or notability.
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
CSM Breakfast (16:30 mark) When asked specifically about his Jewish heritage, not religion, Sanders responded: "I'm proud to be Jewish ... not particularly religious."
Detroit NewsThe Vermont senator, the candidate who has come closer than any other Jew to being a Democratic or Republican presidential nominee, has mostly avoided discussing his Judaism. ...he described himself as “the son of a Polish immigrant,” not a Jewish one ... he spoke of the historic nature of “somebody with my background” seeking the presidency, but didn’t use the word “Jewish.” A recent headline in the liberal Jewish Daily Forward newspaper read, “We Need To Out Bernie Sanders as a Jew — For His Own Good.” Sanders, during more than three decades in public life as a mayor, congressman and U.S. senator, has developed few relationships with Jewish groups or leaders — on religious issues or on Israel. “I would say that he has never been one of those in Congress who was active in a Jewish caucus, who turned out for Israel, who was involved in those issues — and he still isn’t,” said Jonathan Sarna, an expert in American Jewish history at Brandeis University ... when Sanders gave his most religiously focused campaign speech, he only seemed to underscore his distance from Judaism. In the presidential race, he often sums up his religious views with the phrase, “We are in this together.” “Being Jewish is very important to us,” his brother, Larry, said in an interview in England where he lives. “There was no problem of debate, it was just a given in our lives, just as being Americans was a given in our lives. But Bernard is not particularly religious. He doesn’t go to synagogue often. I think he probably goes to synagogue only for weddings and funerals, rather than to pray.”
The Week - opinionTo date, the Vermont senator has largely been able to skirt the issue of his faith. ... He also appeals to secular progressives weary of too much God-talk in presidential politics, a growing segment of the Democratic base. ... Even when Sanders has been asked about his faith, he doesn't invoke God or his own particular religious experiences. He offers no sentimental accounts of his Bar Mitzvah or a revelatory moment with a favorite rabbi. He wasn't even asked to explain what he was doing speaking at Liberty University, an evangelical college, on Rosh Hashanah, the Jewish New Year. ... Sanders is an archetype: the passionate, funny, lefty American Jew firmly rooted in Jewish ideals of justice but who doesn't talk much, or at all, about God or the Torah.
People Magazinedaughter Carina Driscoll remembers Sanders always being very private about his religion. "Bernie would observe his traditions in a way that we really didn't see very much of. ... Says Sanders: "Spirituality is something I think people should hold generally hold to themselves so it’s not something that I talk about a whole lot. But I’m proud to be Jewish and being Jewish is a very important part of my life."
Washington PostBernie Sanders: Our first non-religious president? ... while Sanders is culturally Jewish, he has said that he's "not particularly religious" and has been described by some as agnostic. Asked during an appearance on Jimmy Kimmel's show this week whether he believed in God, Sanders demurred. "I am who I am," Sanders said. "And what I believe in and what my spirituality is about, is that we're all in this together. That I think it is not a good thing to believe that as human beings we can turn our backs on the suffering of other people." Sanders added: "This is not Judasim. This is what Pope Francis is talking about -- that we cannot worship just billionaires and the making of more and more money. Life is more than that." In political terms, this is what's known as a dodge. It's an economic and cultural vision that Sanders attempts to shoehorn into a religious conversation by noting that religious people like Pope Francis feel the same way. It's basically saying, 'I'd rather talk about poor people than God.'
The AtlanticSanders talks so little about his faith ... it’s the lack of attention to Sanders’s Judaism that Jewish leaders find most exciting. “It’s the most wonderful anti-climax in American Jewish history,” said Rabbi Jonah Pesner ... Lieberman’s Judaism was a major part of his political identity. He was closely associated with Jewish causes and his staunch support of Israel, talked openly about his faith, and didn’t campaign on the Sabbath. The same is not true of Sanders. Sanders only discusses his Judaism if asked, “I’m proud to be Jewish,” Sanders said at a breakfast event in Washington. He added that he was “not particularly religious.” When Jimmy Kimmel asked Sanders in October if he believed in God, he didn’t answer directly. “I am who I am,” Sanders replied. ... He struck a similar note a month earlier during his speech at Liberty University in Virginia, the evangelical school founded by Jerry Falwell where he linked himself to the pontiff’s message of social justice but mentioned Judaism only in the context of “the great religions,” and not as his own. (He made his appearance at Liberty on Rosh Hashanah, the Jewish new year. Sanders’ wife Jane is not Jewish, and he is not known to be involved in the small Jewish community back home in Vermont. “He just doesn’t connect with organized Jewish religion,” said Rabbi James Glazier)
Washington PostGrowing up, Bernie Sanders followed the path of many young American Jews ... But as an adult, Sanders drifted away from Jewish customs. “I am not actively involved with organized religion,” Sanders said in a recent interview. ... Sanders’s religious views, which he has rarely discussed, set him apart from the norm in modern American politics, in which voters have come to expect candidates from both parties to hold traditional views about God and to speak about their faith journeys. ... For Sanders, rejecting the formal trappings of religion adds to the unconventional nature of a candidacy that has energized many liberals ... Sanders has appeared reluctant to delve into discussions about his faith, prompting many to assume on social media that he is more secular than God-fearing. When late-night TV host Jimmy Kimmel asked Sanders in October whether be believes in God and if that matters to the American people, the senator seemed to avoid a direct response ... People who have known Sanders over the four decades of his political ascent in Vermont — say Sanders’s central interest has always been politics, not religion. ... Larry Sanders sums up his brother’s views this way: “He is quite substantially not religious.” Sanders sought to explain how his approach to political issues, from climate change to income inequality, is grounded in a moral understanding that transcends religious and political partisanship.
Washington Postthe faith of the Vermont senator seems largely absent from the public narrative. Sanders has over the decades not spoken often about his Judaism or what he believes or practices, according to profiles of him. ... It’s hard to tell yet what impact Sanders’s faith will have — if any — on his campaign for president, or what impact his apparent lack of affiliation will have. He doesn’t seem to identify with a particular branch of Judaism. Rabbi Jonah Pesner ... said the news is that Sanders’s faith isn’t news. “What’s significant here is that we have a viable candidate for presidency who is not only Jewish but has a Brooklyn accent, and it’s not a big deal,” ... he is not a particularly public candidate about his faith
The New YorkerSanders’s close friend Richard Sugarman, ... said, “He’s not what you would call rule-observant.” But, Sugarman added, “if you talk about his Jewish identity, it’s strong. It’s certainly more ethnic and cultural than religious—except for his devotion to the ethical part of public life in Judaism, the moral part. He does have a prophetic sensibility.”
Religion News ServiceBernie Sanders: Unabashedly irreligious. He’s Jewish — sort of. The presidential candidate, 74, was born to Jewish parents and identifies as culturally Jewish. Although by Jewish law he is Jewish, he has freely acknowledged that he is not a religious person. Sanders has strong appeal with millennials, about a third of whom say they have no religious identity. Conversely, he may have no appeal with evangelicals and other conservative Christians. He scored a solid zero from Ralph Reed’s Faith and Freedom Coalition ... Asked by Jimmy Kimmel whether he believed in God, Sanders glided past the question ... some Jewish critics are offended that he rebuffs his cultural and religious heritage
US News and World ReportBernie's Religion Is the Revolution. Bernie Sanders' belief in Judaism and God may be in question, but his belief in the working class is undisputed. It's safe to say Bernie Sanders is not a practicing Jew. He's never claimed to give much thought to the religion of his youth. Or to spirituality. Or to God. The junior senator from Vermont has been vague on spiritual matters. ... the Torah didn't stick with young Bernie. Instead, Sanders recalled his father showing him an album of family members killed in the Holocaust. "Rather than religious training," he told an interviewer in the mid-1980s, "the fact that my parent's family had been destroyed by a government had an enormous impact on me." Once Sanders left Brooklyn for the University of Chicago, he shed any outward Judaism. When I asked Jane Sanders whether her husband is religious, she said: "We believe in Judeo-Christian teachings." That seemed rather vague. I pressed, but she declined to elaborate. I put the question to Professor Richard Sugarman, who serves as Bernie Sanders' unofficial spiritual adviser. Does Bernie Sanders believe in God? "I would call him an uncertain agnostic," Sugarman told me. He still teaches religion and philosophy. "He's not even sure he's an agnostic." Translation: Sanders is doubly uncertain that God exists. Does it matter that Bernie Sanders doesn't believe God matters? Bernie Sanders might not believe in God, but he does have a steadfast and long-standing belief in the rights of the working class. That's his religion.
The Times of Israel“His affect is very Jewish, but I don’t hear a lot of people talking about it,” said Steven Edelman-Blank ... "It’s significant how little of an issue his Jewishness is." Dennis Goldford, a Drake University political scientist ... said there is little reason for Iowans to associate Sanders’ persona at the microphone with his Jewish identity. Unlike some other prominent Jewish politicians, Sanders does not wear his religion on his sleeve. “His Jewishness is relatively invisible to Iowans at large,” said Goldford, ... “In various venues it just doesn’t come up, and he doesn’t mention it.”
Seven Days NewsSanders Is Proud to Be Jewish, Yet Low-Key on Religion. The Republican candidates for president tend to talk about God. In smaller doses, so does Democratic frontrunner Hillary Clinton. Her chief rival for the Democratic nomination, Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.), rarely invokes God's name. The playbook that says that if you run for president, you pay public homage to a higher power? Sanders is not using it. Yes, he speaks with pride about his Jewish heritage and how it motivated him to enter politics. But he isn't saying much about his personal beliefs or traditions. Is he a member of a synagogue? Does he believe in God? Sanders' campaign declined to answer ... Their parents were Jewish, but not deeply religious, Larry Sanders said, describing their approach as "basically secular," ... The way Larry Sanders sees it, if his brother becomes the first Jewish president, the religious aspect would be a footnote, and not a terribly big milestone.
New York TimesSanders Is Jewish, but he doesn’t like to talk about it. Mr. Sanders, those who know him say, exemplifies a distinct strain of Jewish identity, a secular offshoot ... focused less on observance than on economic justice and repairing a broken world. Indeed, he seems more comfortable speaking about Pope Francis, whose views on income inequality he admires, than about his own religious beliefs. Rabbi Paley, ...recalled once talking with Mr. Sanders about “non-Jewish Jews,” a term ... to describe those who express Jewish values through their “solidarity with the persecuted.” Mr. Sanders seemed to acknowledge that the term described him, Rabbi Paley said. The family did not observe much more than Passover seders with neighbors. “They were very pleased to be Jews, but didn’t have a strong belief in God,” Larry Sanders said. Unlike Mrs. Clinton, who states emphatically that she is a Methodist “person of faith,” Mr. Sanders responds to questions about his beliefs by turning the conversation toward political ideals. Sanders “does not have to wear his Judaism on his sleeve in Vermont or anywhere else to be a Jew.” But Rabbi Chasan said there was probably another reason Mr. Sanders avoided discussion of his religion. Like John F. Kennedy, who had to overcome anti-Catholic sentiment, “he’s a good politician and he knows what he’s up against,” he said. Still, Mr. Sanders’s Jewishness, even in its secular style, may not be much of an issue.
Forward - Opinionwhat’s described as Sanders’ unwillingness to discuss his Jewish heritage. The New Republic had a lengthy essay that very morning, titled “Bernie’s complaint — the reluctant roots of his radicalism,” discussing Sanders’ presumed alienation from his Jewish heritage. The New York Times carried a news story the day before titled, “Bernie Sanders Is Jewish, but He Doesn’t Like to Talk About It.” The Times, in turn, referred to a JTA story that appeared February 12, headlined “People are confused why Bernie Sanders won’t own his Jewishness.” “We Need To Out Bernie Sanders as a Jew — for His Own Good.” The Tablet weighed in, “Judaism — On Background”
Boston GlobeMuch has been made – in news outlets, including the Washington Post – of Sanders being the first Jew and first openly secular candidate to get so far. But as an unaffiliated person who talks about faith in spiritual terms and seems reticent about the explicit blend of religion and politics, Sanders is a very common American. Princeton University Professor Kevin Kruse, a historian who focuses on religion, said the “lack of discussion” so far about Sanders’s non-Christian, non-affiliated faith “is kind of amazing. This is certainly a milestone.” The unaffiliated – often called “the Nones” – are “almost to a characteristic a Sanders voter,” he said. Aside from Sanders being unaffiliated, Berlinerblau said the candidate “has to figure out now what type of Jew he wants to be.” The unaffiliated, cultural Jew who talks about spirituality “is on safe ground” in the primary season, he said, but what happens in a general election?
As reliable sources make abundantly clear, religious beliefs are not a relevant part of Sanders' public life; to the contrary, he keeps them private, and when forced to address them publicly, he speaks in generalities about faith and spirituality common to all major religions until he can steer the discussion back to political ideals. He is careful to insist he is spiritual, and says he believes in a higher power when pressed. In the United States. doing otherwise is generality considered to be political suicide.
Wikipedia demands that we use extraordinary care when handling sensitive issues such as describing a person's religious beliefs, and insists that we reflect the subject's self-identification over the characterizations of secondary sources. When a living person tells us in his own words that he is, "not actively involved with organized religion", and he is "not particularly religious", and he feels "Spirituality is something I think people should generally hold to themselves so it’s not something that I talk about a whole lot" - we, as Wikipedia editors, should respect that, rather than demand that he be publicly pigeonholed under an insufficient label which is then highlighted in our infobox as if his religious beliefs are a defining characteristic of his notability. I'm with Sanders and Wikipedia on this, and against the RfC close decision. When Sanders self-identifies in his public life, he doesn't mention religion as having a role in it; see his Official House of Reps Bio, or his Official Senate Bio, or his two autobiographical books he published -- religion plays no part. Why do you suppose Sanders doesn't trumpet his religious beliefs in his bios and books, while most of his colleagues do? The people who know him best confirm this. His daughter ("very private about his religion. Bernie would observe his traditions in a way that we really didn't see very much of"), his brother ("Bernard is not particularly religious. He doesn’t go to synagogue", "quite substantially not religious"), his wife ("I think, just like gender, I don't think [faith] matters, and I don't think it should matter in terms of determining who is the best person [in this campaign]", "neither of us are active in organized religion"), his long-time friend and advisor ("I would call him an uncertain agnostic"), his biographer ("Sanders is not a practicing Jew. He's never claimed to give much thought to the religion"). But at Wikipedia we know better, don't we; we're going to make him publicly, relevantly, religiously Jewish whether he likes it or not? We have policies which protect against that, when we abide by them.
Please help me to understand why the closure of this RfC shouldn't be challenged and overturned for this reason alone.
Problem 2: You added a Wiki-linked Jewish instead of just the word "Jewish" without the hyperlink, as specified in the RfC wording. The Wikipedia hyperlink to that word is a major point of contention. (See the many instances where the link was added and removed in the list of edits 'hatted' below.) Please be aware that the Wikilinked Jewish is problematic because it redirects our readers to the Jews article and states, This article is about the Jewish people. For their religion, see Judaism. The field is for religions, not people. Was consensus for the un-wiki-linked word "Jewish", as asked, or for the linked word "Jewish"? Please make the decision clear in the close statement.
Problem 3: The word "Jewish" does not accurately summarize a simple key fact about Sanders' religious beliefs, as conveyed in the body of the article. In addition, the meaning of the word "Jewish" in this instance is not consistent with its use in other infoboxes. The word "Jewish" as a religious belief is not supported in the body of the article as an assertion of fact; there is only an attributed mention (attributed to a press kit of unknown origin), and zero reliable sources saying he self-identifies as religiously 'Jewish'. This goes against the following rules:
MOS:INFOBOX: The purpose of an infobox: to summarize (and not supplant) key facts that appear in the article.
WP:INFOBOXUSE: The meaning given to each infobox part should be the same across instances of that type of infobox.
H:IB: Infobox templates are like fact sheets, or sidebars, in magazine articles. They quickly summarize important points in an easy-to-read format. The information should still be present in the main text.
The 'Religion=' field is for organized religions specifically, or religious beliefs more generally, according to Wikipedia convention. It is not for cultural ethnicity or "a people", as the RfC close appears to have implemented. Having "Judaism" in the field in most instances, while inserting "Jewish" in other instances goes against the requirement for consistent use across infoboxes. And neither "Judaism" nor "Jewish" correctly summarizes the nuanced religious beliefs, or lack thereof, of the article subject as conveyed by the "Religion and heritage" section of the article. Inserting 'Jewish' in the 'Religion=' field for Sanders tells our readers that such religious beliefs are as relevant to Sanders' public notability as they are to Samuel Schafler, for example. That is misleading.
Problem 4: Sanders has not unambiguously self-identified through direct speech as being religiously Jewish, as required by policy. Your closing statement concludes, "However, in this case, there are multiple sources, both primary and reliable independent ones, that very clearly refer to Sanders' religion as Jewish. Sources that merely "refer to Sanders' religion" do not meet policy requirements. Basic primary and secondary reliable sources are fine for factoids such as place of birth or what school is their alma mater, but for religious beliefs, we need self-identification in direct speech from the subject of the article. The RfC close does not acknowledge these additional policy requirements. Since you did not specify exactly which sources you claim support your close decision, we cannot verify the quotes wherein Sanders declares that he practices a "Jewish religion". This goes against our policies:
WP:CAT/R: religious beliefs or lack of such beliefs of a living person should not be used unless the subject has publicly self-identified with the belief in question (see WP:BLPCAT), either through direct speech or through actions like serving in an official clerical position for the religion.
WP:CATGRS: Avoid categorizing people by non-defining characteristics involving gender/ethnicity/sexuality/disability/religion.
WP:NONDEF: A defining characteristic is one that reliable, secondary sources commonly and consistently define, in prose (as opposed to a tabular or list form), the subject as having. If the characteristic would not be appropriate to mention in the lead portion of an article, it is probably not defining.
I am aware that some editors point to a .PDF file Press Kit of unknown origin (or the Roll Call CQ copy of it) as a potential source. That is not a valid source for Wikipedia. That source does not contain a self-identification in direct speech as required (see WP:CAT/R), and furthermore, it only has the words "Religion: Jewish" in tabular form instead of a description of his religious identification in the required descriptive prose (see WP:NONDEF).
Problem 5: The word "Jewish" was added to the 'Religion=' field but not cited anywhere in the article as required. It absolutely needs to be accompanied by a citation, since it has already been challenged many times. This goes against our core policies, and is a major violation:
WP:V: any material whose verifiability has been challenged or is likely to be challenged, must include an inline citation that directly supports the material.
WP:BLP: Contentious material about living persons (or, in some cases, recently deceased) that is unsourced or poorly sourced – whether the material is negative, positive, neutral, or just questionable – should be removed immediately and without waiting for discussion.
WP:MINREF: Wikipedia's content policies require an inline citation to a reliable source.
Problem 6: You said in your closing statement, "Many individuals also pointed out that some arguments opposed to inclusion ... simply asserted that he isn't really Jewish without any substantiation. Such views were, of course, discounted." There appears to be a misunderstanding here. Please cite just one such argument, along with the name of the editor who posted it. Please point to just one stated view of that type that you "discounted". That you weighed imaginary arguments that were never advanced, while completely ignoring the strongest policy-based arguments, demonstrates to me a possible lack of understanding of the core issue. Were comments "for the closer" completely ignored, like those (one by editor Anythingyouwant comes to mind) which pre-emptively warned closers against being distracted by nonexistent, fake arguments?
Demonstrating how contentious this one field has been, a partial history of edits to the 'Religion=' field of the Infobox.
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
9 November 2003 through 9 November 2006 - 36 months of no 'Religion =' field
OBSERVATIONS
→ On the matter of the Press Kit .PDF file (and the Roll Call -CQ profile copied from it) ←
I've seen Wikipedians point to this .PDF file of unknown origin as if it were the answer to all sourcing requirements for information regarding the religious beliefs of Bernie Sanders. Like a solitary life-raft in a tumultuous sea of contradictory sources claiming otherwise, editors have clung to this source. Since the .PDF file can be accessed through a link to Sanders' Senate biography page, it is arguably reliable enough for uncontroversial facts like occupation and date of birth. It does not, however, meet Wikipedia's additional requirements as a source for information on religious beliefs:
it is not public self-identification in direct speech, as required
the source presents the information in tabular form, instead of in prose as required
the source does not say this religious belief is a defining characteristic of Sanders' public notability as required
this source is contradicted by actual public, direct-speech self-identifications that Sanders is not a member of any organized religion and isn't particularly religious
the source is of unknown origin, and was more likely to have been produced by a well-meaning campaign staffer than by Sanders
this same .PDF file has other errors in it, reducing the expectation of reliability
every word in the .PDF file is also in Sanders' Official Senate Bio, except for, suspiciously, the mention of religion
→ Motivations for editing the |religion= field ←
The following motivations for adding a |religion= field to the Sanders biography, against Wikipedia policy, have been expressed by one or more Wikipedia editors. The reasoning ranges from merely poor through very offensive. I predict many of these editors will be less motivated after the election season passes.
Some editors who proudly share an ethnic identity with Sanders wish to shoehorn the word "Jewish" into the article wherever possible, even where inappropriate. Some passionate editors even suggest resistance to such efforts is anti-Semitism.
Some detractors of Sanders (including anti-Semites) see a stigma associated with Jewish identity, and wish to shoehorn the word "Jewish" into the article wherever possible, even where inappropriate. See this edit summary.
Some political supporters of Sanders add a |religion= parameter and religious references to deflect criticisms that he may be non-religious and therefore unelectable in the United States.
Some political detractors of Sanders add a |religion= "Jewish" to indicate that he is not "Christian", and therefore spur criticism that he is likely unelectable in the United States. (See this comment.)
→ Straw man, imaginary and irrelevant logical fallacy arguments introduced at the RfC ←
Quit saying he's not Jewish! (No one argued that he wasn't. The discussion was about religion.)
Show me a source which says he is not Jewish! (No need; no one ever suggested that be entered in the article.)
You are trying to hide or minimize his Jewish affiliation! (No one did that. All of that information is perfectly allowable in the body of the article. No one proposed to hide or delete it.)
You are trying to say he's not "Jewish enough" or "religious enough to be Jewish"! (No one did that. We must, however, determine if reliable sources say that a person is notable because of their religion. We're required to, in fact, before we can highlight that information in the neon-lighted billboard known as an Infobox.)
→ Interesting and astute assessments on the religion issue ←
Does "supported inclusion of 'Jewish' in the religion parameter" mean all other additions to that same field are to be excluded? Such as (secular), (non-religious), (inactive), (Universalist), (Revolution), all of which have been added or suggested in the past?
