Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/French law on secularity and conspicuous religious symbols in schools/archive1

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French law on secularity and conspicuous religious symbols in schools[edit]

I think it's quite complete, on a controversial and difficult issue. (Yes, the title is long, but it is difficult to make a shorter one without introducing some bias or undertone.) David.Monniaux 22:47, 4 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: I think this is an excellent article. However, I'd like to see a few minor things fixed before I change my vote to support:

  • Somewhere at the beginning you briefly mentioned something about "previous restrictions" to the use of religious symbols before the enactment of the law. Could you please give an example?
I explained it better, it refers to the conditions given in 1989 by the Conseil d'État.
  • In the Background section it is mentioned the law applies to schools in Category 1, but not to schools in Categories 1 and 2. Is that a typo? How can the law apply and not apply at the same time to schools in Category 1?
Rephrased that. It applies only to 1.
  • What's the name for the "umbrella group" of Catholic schools in France? I think it should be mentioned even if it doesn't deserve its own article.
Fixed. It's the General secretariat of Catholic education.
  • You compare the amount of money parents pay in average per month for private education in France with the monthly cost of an ASDL connection. Is that the cost of ASDL in Paris? Detroit? Cairo? I think it would be more useful if you compared it with the French GDP per capita or some other common financial statistic.
Given the context, it is obvious that this is the price of an ADSL line in France. :-)
I wanted to make a comparison that reflects cost-of-living issues. Sure, there are indicators like GDP per capita, but what do they tell us exactly in familiar terms? I don't know the GDP per capita of France without looking it up, but I know the price for a phone landline subscription (approximately 30 EUR every two months if you're at France Telecom). Most families pay a land line, thus it gives an element of comparison (I agree that ADSL is perhaps not a good comparison.) What do you think?
I like the landline comparison since I think it makes more sense than ADSL, and can be grasped without people needing to go to the linked article. Thumbs up.
  • In the Stasi Commission section the purpose of the small font paragraph is not quite clear. Are you quoting someone? Or is it a note? If it's the latter it may be more convenient to have it at the end of the article.
It was a note.

That's it. I think these should be quite easy to fix. Feel free to cross them out as you work with them. -- Rune Welsh ταλκ 11:58, 5 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: Very interesting article! A section on international reaction to the law might be useful, as, if I recall correctly, there was pretty widespread condemnation of the law from the U.S. to the Middle East.

Good remark. I've worked on it.

Also, was there ever an exception made for Sikhs and turbans as indicated by Villepin [1] [2], or does the law apply to them as well? Sortan 16:37, 5 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

The problem with these "exceptions" is that they are not based on texts with statutory or regulatory value, but are likely to be granted on a case-by-case basis. Obviously, no minister can openly issue a general decision that violates a law — so all they do is to use the vagueness of the law to decide that in such or such case the behaviour of the student is not ostentatious etc.
Because of the way it works, the number of students affected will be disputed. I read in today's Canard Enchaîné that, according to the Ministry, there are at this point only 3 students who wear ostentatious religious attire but that this is disputed by some groups. All I can do is to copy these claims.
I could probably try to get some more detailed stuff but this would quickly be "original research"... David.Monniaux 17:35, 5 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]
About the sikhs: it alluded to in the article, 3 sikh students went to Catholic schools, with expenses paid by the state, according to the Canard last year. There's not a big sikh population in France so it's not a front-line issue. It will be difficult to get more information on it. They announced lately that one Sikh student currently faced action because of his turban. David.Monniaux 22:09, 5 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support The issues I mentioned above got fixed, and the addition of the international reaction section makes article even better. The comparison with a telephone landline (see above) is quite reasonable and more understandable than the price of ADSL. Thus I support now this article for FA status. Good job. -- Rune Welsh ταλκ 20:17, 5 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. Interesting and well written. →Raul654 17:22, 8 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]
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