Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Nellie Kim/archive1

Nellie Kim

After two weeks on the peer review, which did not produce any strong critical objections (suggestions on image placement have been dealt with), I am nominating it here. This is my first major work on Wikipedia, started more than a year ago, which undergone many changes and additions since then. I have read some biographical featured articles, and I think, that it is now at least not worse, than they are. Although I cannot compare their prose well enough, because my English is not perfect. I would like to see it featured one day. How long should I go for it, depends on your comments, guys (unless I leave Wikipedia before I achieve this). You are welcome! Cmapm 21:00, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

Rename the trivia section or find a way to incorporate the facts into the articles. Btw the images look better and don't leave Wikipedia. --Osbus 22:54, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

I renamed it into "Other facts". I did not incorporate them at least so far, because I have no idea, where does the first one belong to. If it is not OK, I'll think more on this. Thank you for the support! Fortunately, now I have no reasons to leave Wiki so far, but I am not sure for the future. Cmapm 23:06, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

Yes, Other Facts is much better than Trivia, but it isn't as good as having the facts in the articles. I looked at the facts, and it can be included. The first one can go under Early Life, and the second can go under Later Life. --Osbus 00:13, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

Thanks! I've just introduced these changes into the article. Cmapm 00:35, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

• Support Looks right to me. Cvene64 07:49, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

• Comment: I'd kill the "Navigation" section heading above the templates. And move the "This article contains information from..." to the References or External links and format appropriately. I assume you used information from all of the sources you've listed, so there's no reason to give this one special billing. Nice work eliminating the Trivia section. :-) --NormanEinstein 18:27, 21 April 2006 (UTC)
  • Thank you, I find these to be very good catches! All the more, that the header was removed from another article a couple of days ago by some user, and I was indeed a bit worrying about it. I'll later fix this in other biographical articles too. I not just used the information from all sources listed in other places, but I fixed mistakes from Gymnast.ru using Gymn-forum.com article (2nd ext.link). That template seems to be inappropriate any more indeed. Thank you very much for your help! Cmapm 22:10, 21 April 2006 (UTC)
• Support Although I'd like to express a minor concern about fair use which isn't something I know much about(somone who knows more should look into this). Specifically, given that we have a small image of Kim, can we justify the larger image as fair use? JoshuaZ 04:41, 24 April 2006 (UTC)
  • Thank you for your comment. Well, there are no restrictions on the image size in {{Non-free fair use in}} template, used to tag it. I believe, that all the requirements, provided in the template are satisfied. E.g., the second one is satisfied, because 1. the small image is non-free one; 2. smaller image doesn't give any information on one of the main issues in the article: Nellie Kim's competitive appearances. Besides, we have some precedents of two or more than two fair-use images in a FA, e.g. Iron Maiden (includes four large fair-use images), Miles Davis, Sandy Koufax. However, if somewhere in the future it eventually turns out, that usage of these two images together is not right, I would suggest to leave the largest one, as much more informative. Cmapm 10:14, 24 April 2006 (UTC)
• Object Neutral because of citations. I added {{fact}} in one spot, and I'll look for other places where more are needed. Are there any newspaper articles on this gymnast, for example? Also, the third citation is a direct quote from the source ([1]), but that isn't marked. I'd suggest finding some other sources (like newspapers, magazines, etc.) that talk about the world's reaction to her at the olympics, and put those views together in a well-developed paragraph. The one print reference is nice, but it's also written in Russian. Please give some print sources in English if possible. --Spangineer^[es] (háblame) 16:47, 1 May 2006 (UTC)
  • I've added two print citations, but haven't properly expanded the text to take advantage of them. Would it be alright if I changed the citation method from {{ref}} to m:Cite/Cite.php? I'm having difficulty with reference numbering and such. --Spangineer^[es] (háblame) 17:12, 1 May 2006 (UTC)
    • Thank you for the comment and citations! I think, it would be OK to change the reference format, if the text will appear the same as it is now. In another case, it seems, that "cite.php" format is not mandatory in Wiki. I've looked to the article's version before your edits, and I saw, that the third quote was marked (if you are speaking about this one:"Her gymnastic appearances are remembered for her strong feminine, temperamental and charismatic appeal"), maybe it's not the third, but it is another one? As concerns print citations, I had a problem with them... The main library of our country almost does not contain English newspapers of that period and it does not contain at least sports magazines (only a couple of "Sports Illustrated" for 1973 or so). So, I mostly relied on online English sources and her printed Russian book. And I didn't find more info about the reaction to her performance in English, than I provided there. It seems, that her Russian book contains some additional info, but I already cited it in many places. One more "printed" info is available online [2]. But once again, it's the Soviet source too. May be some piece should be removed or reworded, if you don't find it to be right.

By the way, more info exists in online English sources. If you feel, that the article is not comprehensive or is not neutral, I'll try to fix that, just say... If you don't know, how to incorporate some info, then, please, provide it on the article's Talk Page, I'll think of this (or we can think together). Thank you for your help with the article!

P.S. I provided all requested citations. Cmapm 18:39, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

I meant "marked" in the sense of using quotation marks (since the it's a direct quote from the source that's given). I understand that it can be difficult to get some types of references. There's more information in one of the sources I have (the New York Times article), so I'll try to incorporate more of that in the next few days. I might also have time to look at some old sports magazines and see what they have to say. As for reference style, it's true that cite.php isn't mandatory, but I tend to think it's easier to use when adding references. I'll see how many more there are to add from any sources I find. One more thing—I have a reference that says that she served as the Vice President of the Belarus Gymnastics team or something like that (at least it was vice president of something related to Belarus) as of I believe 1998. Would that be worth including? --Spangineer^[es] (háblame) 00:11, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

Sorry, thanks for the good catch! I fixed that... I've looked into the article Diane Keaton, where "cite.php" is used and that style seems to be nice, especially those "a,b..." for multiple links to the same source, although it's still a bit distracting to me due to long reference "sentences", incorporated into the text. But it seems to be better, than the current one. Feel free to change it, or probably I'll change it myself, when I figure out how to convert the current style into it. It would be very nice, if you include more printed facts! As concerns Belarus, one related fact is already mentioned, but perhaps more should be worth inclusion in my view. Thank you for all your ongoing help! Cmapm 00:35, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

• Support good article Jaranda ^{wat's sup} 21:59, 3 May 2006 (UTC)