Wikipedia:Featured list candidates/List of Dragonair destinations/archive1

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was promoted by Dabomb87 21:58, 6 April 2010 [1].

List of Dragonair destinations[edit]

List of Dragonair destinations (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

Nominator(s): Aviator006 (talk) 09:59, 14 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Toolbox

I am nominating this for featured list because I am in the process of nominating for Cathay Pacific Group for Good Topic and need to bring its relevant lists to FL-status. The article has been overhauled into table format, completely researched and referenced. Aviator006 (talk) 09:59, 14 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Resolved comments from bamse (talk) 20:20, 1 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]
A couple of comments:
  • Alt-text should describe only what is visible in the picture for a viewer not familiar with the subject. For instance, I cannot see that the second pic shows Hong Kong Kai Tak Airport or the third pic shows Guangzhou's Baiyun Airport (this info is already in the caption). You might leave out information which is not relevant to the article such as "blue sky background" in the first picture.
Corrected. Aviator006 (talk) 02:34, 24 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Better, but still could be improved. 1st picture: If I don't know what "Dragonair's livery" looks like, the alt text is not very informative. Try to describe what it looks like (dragon at the back, some Chinese characters and "Dragonair"). 2nd picture's alt-text is good. 3rd picture: It is not obvious (at least to me) that the structure in the back is an airport building. Just discovered the parked planes, so 3rd picture's alt-text is ok. bamse (talk) 09:22, 24 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Updated to read, 'An aircraft painted in white, with a red dragon on its tail and the name Dragonair in both English and Traditional Chinese on the fuselage, taxiing on the taxiway'. Aviator006 (talk) 11:29, 24 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Note that alt text is no longer required by the FL criteria. Dabomb87 (talk) 21:15, 24 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Oh, didn't know that. Sorry for making such a fuss. In any case the alt-text is good now. bamse (talk) 21:26, 24 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • "... 11 countries and territories": What does "territories" refer to?
(Unfortunately) Hong Kong is not a country and depends who you talk to, the Republic of China is questionable, hence, using the term territories. I have now added a wikilink to [[Territory (administrative division)|territories]]. Aviator006 (talk) 04:47, 15 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
OK. bamse (talk) 09:22, 24 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • " In the coming years...": Proper tense?
Updated to 'In the following years,' Aviator006 (talk) 03:25, 25 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • "more cities in China and other countries within the Asia-Pacific region, including Bangladesh, Cambodia, India, Japan, Nepal, Philippines, Republic of China, South Korea and Vietnam": either replace the country names (other than "China") with city names or add a "to" after "and".
'to' added as suggested. Aviator006 (talk) 04:47, 15 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

bamse (talk) 17:21, 14 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

...and some more:

  • "...cargo division...operated to...": Is this good English?
Updated to read 'The airline's cargo division, Dragonair Cargo, operated a fleet of Boeing only aircraft to...' Aviator006 (talk) 06:23, 26 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • "...freighter fleet were...": maybe "were"->"was"?
Corrected as suggested. Aviator006 (talk) 02:58, 15 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • "The destination list shows airports that have been served by Dragonair as part of its scheduled passenger and cargo services since 1985": maybe add "since its founding in" to make clear that "since 1985" is not a restriction on the list.
Updated as suggested. Aviator006 (talk) 03:25, 25 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Remove the "s" on "codes" in: "The list includes the city, country, the codes..."
Sentence updated and the 's' relates to IATA airport code and ICAO aiport code, hence, it is not removed. Aviator006 (talk) 06:23, 26 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Replace "Official website" in the external links section with something more descriptive.
I believe 'Official website' is the correct way of doing it on Wikipedia. Arsenikk (talk) 21:11, 14 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Probably could be in some more categories.
[[Category:Cathay Pacific]] added. Aviator006 (talk) 06:23, 26 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Please explain what a "not continual service" is and what " for dates which occur in the future." means and refers to.
These two phrases are no longer used in the article. The paragraph previously contained these two phrases have been rewritten. Aviator006 (talk) 16:11, 26 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I see. I was just a bit surprised to see this comment disappear from this page without any notice... How is "Non-continuous service" (appears twice) defined? bamse (talk) 18:12, 26 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Apologies, I have accidentally deleted it when I update with feedback. Anyway, I have now added '(services to those destinations that have been suspended or terminated and subsequently resumed or recommenced)' to define it. Aviator006 (talk) 02:35, 27 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
OK, if you get rid of the parantheses I am ready to support. bamse (talk) 16:51, 27 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I couldn't just remove the parantheses as the sentence will no longer make sense. I have rephrased the sentence to 'Additionally, there are labels for airports that: have been served by cargo or regular charter service only, are the airline's hub, or have services suspended or terminated and subsequently been resumed or recommenced.' Does this sounds better? Aviator006 (talk) 17:50, 27 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Very good! Just one more question: What is a "regular charter service" as compared to a "charter service"?bamse (talk) 21:16, 27 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Regular charter service is like scheduled service, but is not part of the air services agreement between the two countries. Charter service is a single ad-hoc service. Aviator006 (talk) 05:21, 28 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

and one more... Would it be feasible to add (as a footnote or so) the dates (years) when a non-continuous service was suspended/resumed? bamse (talk) 21:18, 27 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Unfortunately, I believe this will be too messy for those airlines that have a lot of non-continuous services to show in the article. However, the information is in hidden text in edit mode and in the citation. Aviator006 (talk) 05:21, 28 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

bamse (talk) 17:43, 14 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Support: All comments (very patiently) addressed. bamse (talk) 20:20, 1 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Resolved comments from Arsenikk (talk) 08:17, 2 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]
;Comments
  • Either 'Hong Kong Dragon Airlines Limited' or 'Dragonair' should be linked, not both of them. Otherwise, you lure the reader to think they are two different articles.
Wikilink removed from 'Hong Kong Dragon Airlines Limited'. Aviator006 (talk) 02:58, 15 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • 'wholly owned' should have a hyphen.
Hyphenated as suggested. Aviator006 (talk) 02:58, 15 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • The lead is a bit short. Perhaps mention how Dragonair differs from Cathay Pacific; is it a regional airline? Perhaps also mention the former use of Kai Tak Airport as a hub.
The lead expanded as suggested. Aviator006 (talk) 15:05, 24 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • There should probably be a 'the' in front of 'Republic of China'. Consider added '(Taiway)' after that, as most people know what Taiwan is, but keeping track of republics and people's republics and whatnot is a bit tedious.
Updated to 'Republic of China (Taiwan)'. Aviator006 (talk) 02:58, 15 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • 'air operator's certificate' is a common noun, and should be in lower-case. The article should be moved.
The term is used as is throughout Wikipedia, if such change is needed, it needs to be applied globally. I believe it should be discussed outside of this Review. Aviator006 (talk) 08:36, 26 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • The description seems to contradict itself, as it first states "...scheduled services..." and later "...only operated charter services..." If this not a typo, then I believe there has been established consensus at WP:Airlines to not include charter services, based among other things on that charter services would involve directory-like entries at an AfD for some three to four years ago now.
Paragraph rephrased, please review. Aviator006 (talk) 07:56, 26 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • The prose mentions "charter only" services, but there is none in the key. Also, "charter only" should use a hyphen.
Key now included 'Regular charter service only'. Paragraph rephrased as mentioned in comment above. Aviator006 (talk) 07:56, 26 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • By "main hub", do you mean there are multiple hubs? If so, these should also be indicated, if necessary as "focus city". If not, just use hub. Also, do not caps the second word.
No, only single hub, hence, updated to 'Hub'. Aviator006 (talk) 02:58, 15 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • It is a bit of an overlink to link 'Dragonair' in the two top images.
Wikilinks removed as suggested. Aviator006 (talk) 02:58, 15 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • The third image should use an en dash, not a hyphen, as punctuation. See WP:DASH.
Corrected as suggested. Aviator006 (talk) 02:58, 15 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • I am a bit weary to include 'unknown' in the table. That essentially means the list is incomplete, unless, of course, it is regarded by reliable sources as unknown. But it might pass, since there is only a single instance. But to be a bit strict, there might be some mention of this in Japanese news sources...
Japanese source obtained. Aviator006 (talk) 03:39, 15 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • I would have though it was unnecessary to use both the old and new Hong Kong flags; limit to the flag at the time the operation ceased.
Old Hong Kong flag removed as suggested. Aviator006 (talk) 03:39, 15 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • New York city needs to link to 'New York City', although it can be piped to New York.
Correct to wikilink to [[New York City|New York]]. Aviator006 (talk) 02:58, 15 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • The alt texts need to be a bit more concrete, look at WP:ALT. They should not contain proper nouns, but unlike other places on Wikipedia can use subjective terms. One of the flags has an alt-text, and it should be empty. (set alt=)
Alt texts updated. Aviator006 (talk) 15:05, 24 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • The use of ref groups is perhaps not the best idea. How about just using the raw formatting <sup>[Cargo]</sup> to create the "box".
Please elaborate your concern. I see them particularly useful for a long table to be able to click to see its definition. Aviator006 (talk) 08:36, 26 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • As 'Cathay Pacific destinations' is mentioned in the navbox, there is no need to have it in the see also section.
Section removed as suggested. Aviator006 (talk) 02:58, 15 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • In the last two external links, 'destinations' and 'network' should be lower-case.
Un-capitalised as suggested. Aviator006 (talk) 02:58, 15 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Only a single source is not from Dragonair or Cathay Pacific. Perhaps you could take a look at online newspapers, particularly for newer instances, to establish independent sources. I'm not saying they all have to be independent (particular older entries), but there needs to be a fair bit of independent verification.
Alternate citations added. Aviator006 (talk) 02:34, 24 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • I would have though it better to either limit to one image under 'destinations' and let the table receive full width, or add additional images of destination airports.
Additional images included. Aviator006 (talk) 07:56, 26 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • I find the top image a bit cropped. Are there any images of full aircraft available?
New image included. Aviator006 (talk) 02:34, 24 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Nice to see aviation lists at FLC. Arsenikk (talk) 21:11, 14 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

All feedback reviewed and updated. Aviator006 (talk) 08:36, 26 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
There are several things which have not been seen to:
  • Could you mention how many of the services are codeshare.
'3' has been added into the lead where codeshare is mentioned. Aviator006 (talk) 02:58, 27 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • AOC still capitalized. Please explain to me the logic of why it should be capitalized, and don't feed me WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS. If you can explain the grammatical implications (for all intents why 'Air Operator's Certificate' is a proper noun) I will let it pass. Most people who have been writing a lot of the aviation articles are really bad writers, and aviation articles are among those with the most capitalization errors.
Term uncapped as suggested. Aviator006 (talk) 03:17, 27 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • References are still all to Dragonair or Cathay Pacific
As per my sign off on the 26th, there were more than a dozen non-KA/CX citations, compared to 1 initially reported. Aviator006 (talk) 05:21, 28 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • The [cargo] etc boxes should be in plain text, to avoid unnecessary linking
Linked labels removed. Aviator006 (talk) 18:13, 27 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Could you come with a slightly more precise definition of "regular charter".
Definition added with citation. Aviator006 (talk) 19:06, 27 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Arsenikk (talk) 23:29, 26 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Alternate reference added. Aviator006 (talk) 14:26, 31 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • A lot of the references use spaced emdashes, see WP:DASH.
Corrected to endashes. Aviator006 (talk) 14:26, 31 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Arsenikk (talk) 12:56, 31 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Resolved comments from The Rambling Man (talk) 14:34, 31 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Comments
  • "in Hong Kong; with its corporate headquarters" not sure you need that ;, perhaps a comma, but not the ;.
Corrected as suggested. Aviator006 (talk) 13:49, 31 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Don't really think Chairman requires a wikilink.
Corrected as suggested. Aviator006 (talk) 13:49, 31 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Linked as suggested. Aviator006 (talk) 13:49, 31 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Dragonair Flight 841 from Chongqing was the airport's last scheduled arrival flight and the aircraft landed on runway 13 at 15:38 GMT (23:38 Hong Kong time) on 8 July 1998." quite a bit over the top for me really. Do I need to know the precise time and runway on which the last flight landed?
'and the aircraft landed on runway 13 at 15:38 GMT (23:38 Hong Kong time) on 8 July 1998' removed from article. Aviator006 (talk) 14:26, 31 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Shanghai and Hong Kong should be linked on all instances in the table, due to sorting, who knows which one will come first...
Linked as suggested. Aviator006 (talk) 13:49, 31 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • End sorts peculiarly - you should force the "present" to sort as, say, 2010.
I have used {{sort|2100|present}} to enable sorting. Also, to ensure the 'present' will sorted as last. Aviator006 (talk) 14:26, 31 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Ref should be Refs.
Corrected as suggested. Aviator006 (talk) 14:26, 31 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The Rambling Man (talk) 13:13, 31 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Additional comments reviewed and updated. Aviator006 (talk) 14:26, 31 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Done well to (patiently) address the concerns raised by others. Sb617 (Talk) 00:56, 4 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]


The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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