Wikipedia:Featured list candidates/List of NK Maribor players/archive1

The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was not promoted by The Rambling Man 10:01, 21 April 2013 (UTC) [1].[reply]

List of NK Maribor players[edit]

Nominator(s): Ratipok (talk) 12:57, 27 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I am nominating this for featured list because... I believe this list complies with the Featured List criteria as well as possible. It comprehensively covers every important NK Maribor player, and is factually accurate. It is also useful to football fans. Also, the list was subject to a Wikipedia:Peer review, however, it seems that no one is interested in doing list reviews at this time (couple of other lists went without the review as well). Ratipok (talk) 12:57, 27 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Resolved comments from Giants2008 (Talk) 00:17, 21 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Comments –

"Ales Krizan holds the club record for the most appearances in Slovenian top division, with 240." Needs "the" before Slovenian.
UEFA should probably be spelled out in the second paragraph.
In the key, each usage of "have" should be "has" instead.
"played on two or more different positions during his career". "on" → "at"?
The List of players section heading doesn't need the first two words.
"This is the list of important players...". Why does playing 100 matches automatically make a play important to Maribor? I'm sure some of them played a minor role for the team, and this strikes me as needless POV. The table caption uses the word as well.
"listed by the number of their appearnaces." Last word is a typo.
Can we avoid having NOT fully capitalized? It's annoying enough to see that in references; it's certainly inappropriate in article text. If editors have trouble with this point, you could try an inline note to get the message across.
"Season counts if a player has made at least one appearance during their respective seasons." The final four words or so are redundant to the rest of the sentence and can be removed.
Bolding in discouraged in FLs. For emphasis, try italics instead.
By the way, why is this whole lead-up italicized?
Footnote B: "player's" → "players'", with the apostrophe at the end.
Reference 21 (Wordpress) is not a reliable source. Something else will need to be found for the note that uses it. Giants2008 (Talk) 18:29, 14 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: Thank you for your comments. I believe I have addressed them properly. If there is anything else, feel free to write me a msg as I will now follow this article more closely. Lep pozdrav, Ratipok (talk) 11:48, 18 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Resolved comments from The Rambling Man (talk) 11:55, 30 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

~~Oppose~~ could use a good hard copyedit.

Lead could be considered as a little too big, but you could merge the first couple of paras.
Bit of rewording perhaps: "The club was founded in 1960 and joined the FA of Yug the same year. It remained a member until the independence ... in 1991."
You link Slovenia's independence the second time round.
" had no major success" not sure we know what a "major" success is.
"managers Bojan Prašnikar, Ivo Šušak and Matjaž Kek" all three at once? It's not clear.
"overwhelmingly dominated" - really? Is this a quote? If so quote it, if not it's not encyclopedic.
"became the dominant force" not encyclopedic.
"Matjaž Kek also" don't repeat first names.
Any reason you link Prosen in the table but not in the lead? Be consistent.
Same with Horjak.
"The current.." see WP:AS OF.
" As of 6 December 2012..." well it's already "22 March 2013" so an update could be useful.
"eight current players" (a) see the "current" thing above (b) why aren't all current players linked in the lead?
"Former Maribor member" do you mean player rather than member? There are other instances of this.
The en-dash for goals (for instance) shouldn't sort between 0 and 1.
Shouldn't "Simeunović" be "Simeunovič "?
Reword Pos to something else so it's not confusing with playing position.
Avoid overlinking in the notes.

The Rambling Man (talk) 18:46, 21 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Comment:Thank you for your comments. I have changed the lead and made it shorter. Please look at it if it meets your criteria. I have also addressed most of the other matters, though there are still some things that need to be taken care off. For example, I have linked Tomislav Prosen and Branko Horjak in the lead but those two dont have Wiki articles (I will change that asap and made two new articles). The Simeunović and Simeunovič thing is a bit confusing. Vojislav Simeunović (ć also used in the official website) is a native of present day Serbia and is the former player/manager of Maribor and also the father of Marko Simeunovič (č is by Maribor's website) who was born in present day Slovenia and represented Slovenian NT on international level (Slovene alphabet only uses č and not ć -- I have changed his last name to Č though, because of its use on the official website of the club). Among the "eight current players" Marcos Tavares and Aleš Mertelj arent linked because they are already linked in the second paragraph (I could link them twice, if its not a problem). In the same paragraph I slightly changed the "Matjaž Kek also", but I am not sure if its OK now (let me know if it needs to be changed further). I know what would you like with the en dash sorting (between 0 and 1), but I am not sure how to change that and will try to look for help tmr. Lep pozdrav, Ratipok (talk) 23:55, 21 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Good work so far, I imagine you may be able to use the {{sort}} template on the en-dashes as something like – or similar to force its position? Have a play.

Thanks. I have used {sort|-1|—} for apps and goals of the two youth players/internationals and it now sorts en-dash before zero and not between zero and one. Is there anything else that needs to be fixed? Lep pozdrav, Ratipok (talk) 23:29, 22 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

No, looks good to me, well done. The Rambling Man (talk) 15:36, 23 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Note this nomination appears to have stalled. Suggest the nominator contacts relevant projects or editors who may be interested in reviewing this for FLC, or else we should archive the nomination. The Rambling Man (talk) 18:06, 5 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

OK, I will try to find someone who would be willing to do the review.Ratipok (talk) 12:25, 8 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I have asked the Wikiproject Football task force for help and hope someone will respond:) Ratipok (talk) 11:55, 11 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose for now, on sourcing, probably MOS:FLAG compliance, and criterion 5a "a minimal proportion of items are redlinked".

Prose: odd bits of English that aren't quite right: things like putting "the" when it shouldn't be there, or omitting it when it should, wrong choice of prepositions, the sort of minor stuff that comes of writing (very well, in general) in a language not your own. If you'd like me to do a very minor copyedit just to fix that sort of thing, I'd be happy to.
Colour symbols. I think the symbol templates are supposed to be written out in words, as {{section-sign|alt=InternationalClub}} rather than {{§|alt=InternationalClub}}. And it might be better to separate the words "international" and "club", so that a screen reader can read it properly.
Table column heading. "Retirement" is the wrong word, but I can't think of anything that's a proper opposite to "Debut". Perhaps someone else can. If it were me, I might have gone with something simple like "First" and "Last", or "From" and "To".
The Rank column's going to be fun to update... Probably it should be centre-aligned, like the other numeric fields.
You need to pick a single as-of date, and use it for everything time-dependent. At the moment, in the lead section you've got Marcos Tavares with 228 apps as of March 2013 and 84 players w/100 senior apps as of 16 March 2013, yet the main table is up-to-date as of 7 April. It's often a good idea not to include in the lead anything that's going to need updating every match.
Colours. Personally, I find the gold and silver colours unpleasantly intense for such wide boxes, particularly at the bottom of the table where there are a lot all together. Do you think it might look better with lighter colours, or none at all?
Note D. Transfermarkt isn't a reliable source (and certainly not for international caps for minor countries: it struggles enough with recent caps for well-known European countries). There must be some alternative to verify Mr Siberie playing for Netherlands Antilles, it's not as if you actually need the number of caps or dates.
General ref. The accessdate needs to be updated when the stats are changed. Doesn't look very professional if the stats are supposed to be accurate asof April but the last time the source was consulted was January...
Foreign-language sources. Can you add an English translation of article titles, for those that aren't just people's names. There's a |trans_title= parameter, if you're using citewebs.
Player selection. I thought these lists were now intended to aim for a complete list of players, either in one article where feasible on size grounds, or split by number of appearances if size dictates, but without any extras like record-holders or internationals? I would ask for input from people who might know, but given the singular lack of comments on this nomination, wouldn't hold out much hope...
Flags. Could you explain how flags are chosen for those players without international caps? I've read note B, and I'm afraid it sounds to me a bit like guesswork. Don't know how much you follow WT:FOOTY, but one of the perennial discussions is on how to allocate flags, and it's difficult enough without half the players coming from the former Yugoslavia... The approach taken in some recent footballer FLs is have an international representation column rather than nationality, so the only players who get flags are those who have actually been selected for international football, and they get flags for all appropriate countries. It's an approach that avoids having to guess FIFA eligibility for players born in a former country to parents of different ethnicity to that of the country in which the player later lived...
More flags. What are your source(s) for player nationalities?
Internationally capped players. Again, where are these sourced from?
Playing positions. Again, where are these sourced from?
Redlinks. About a third of the players listed are redlinks, which IMO is rather more than "a minimal proportion". Are all the players listed "notable" in a WP:NFOOTBALL sense? If any are not, then they should be unlinked, which would reduce the number of redlinks.

Sorry about the difficult questions, hope some of this stuff helps. cheers, Struway2 (talk) 18:02, 12 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose I agree with many of the concerns listed above; most notable for me is the apparent OR for the playing positions and the nationality, while I also think that the rowscope should be the player's name (given that this is a list of players). I think "ranking" the players like this is undesirable: I have no issue with the list being initially sorted by appearances, but included a "rank" seems subjective and strange. As italics, like bold text, is often not picked up by screen-readers, it should not be used as a sole way of indicating something, such as current members of the club. Harrias ^talk 10:55, 13 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.