Wikipedia:Featured list candidates/List of National Hockey League players from the United Kingdom/archive1

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was promoted by The Rambling Man 20:59, 8 March 2012 [1].

List of National Hockey League players from the United Kingdom[edit]

List of National Hockey League players from the United Kingdom (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

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Nominator(s): Harrias talk 17:01, 4 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I am nominating this for featured list because I feel it meets the FL criteria, and (I think anyway) is an interesting list on something that I had wondered about for a while. It is loosely based on the current FLs List of Major League Baseball players from Australia and List of Major League Baseball players from Puerto Rico, but not too closely. As always, all comments and suggestions are appreciated. I should also point out that I am taking part in the WikiCup, so this nomination is tied into that. (For what difference that makes?) Harrias talk 17:01, 4 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I think you might want to go through the list of all the NHL players as I am pretty sure you have missed a number. Sid Finney is the first one that I noticed that was missing. The list just seems very short as there were a lot of people from the UK who played in the NHL in the early years. -DJSasso (talk) 19:20, 4 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I've gone through the list of players from England, Wales, Scotland, Ireland and the United Kingdom on the Legends of Hockey website, as well as the Hockey-Reference lists, and Finney is the only other player I can confirm is from the UK. Two others, Bobby Kirk and Jack Riley are listed as being from places that I can not find on Google to confirm if they are Southern or Northern Ireland, and thus are not verifiable. Browsing around prior to nominating this list, I found a lot of UK-born players appeared in the NHA and other pre-NHL leagues, but this number of players seems to be about right for the NHL: unless you can add anything else? Harrias talk 20:46, 4 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Nope I trust you. Just wanted to point out that I saw one so was concerned there might be others. Good work on the list. I will leave it to others to review more thoroughly for other featured criteria. -DJSasso (talk) 20:48, 4 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for noticing that: I'll have to do some more research into that pair to try and pin down where they are from! Harrias talk 20:50, 4 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support, provided a few fixes are made:
  • "The modern form of ice hockey is generally considered to have began in the mid-19th century, when a group of Englishmen from the Royal Canadian Rifle Regiment played a game in Kingston, Ontario.[2]" - I'd suggest just removing the whole sentence, as it is uncertain where and when ice hockey originated. The first part of the sentence is sort of alright, the last part just don't make sense... it implies that regiment created the game.
  • I've seen this from a fair few sources: the consensus seems to agree that this was probably the first game played with a puck. Should I state more specifically that is what I mean? Harrias talk 17:34, 7 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • But looking around now, I agree that there is a lot of variation. I'll look at whether I should cut this entirely or just "soften" it a bit. Harrias talk 17:43, 7 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • "In the United Kingdom, a five team league was established in 1903" - what was the name of the league? It might be a good link, even if it is still red.
  • At the moment I don't know, but I am trying to find that out! Harrias talk 17:34, 7 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • I think it makes more sense to put the pink highlighting of a Hall of Famer over his entire row, and not only the name. This is just a stylistic concern, as in "it look weird to me". If you think it's fine, ignore this comment.
  • Done. If anyone else particularly objects I can undo it again, but I'm not over bothered either way. Harrias talk 17:36, 7 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • The article is orphaned as of my review; I'm going to add links on the player pages, but other links could be useful, too.

Maxim(talk) 16:53, 7 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Resolved comments from Giants2008 (Talk) 22:03, 28 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Comments –
  • "He joined the Montreal Canadiens for the first season of the NHL, which competed in 1919 Stanley Cup Finals as league champions." First, I'd use "who" instead of "which", since the team nickname is plural and that's a standard way of dealing with situations like this. Second, "the" would be nice before 1919.
    • The team nickname is still being used in the singular ("playing in its very first game"), which I don't think is correct for a North American-based team name that isn't singular. Suggest switching that to "their".
      • I've removed that bit entirely, as I think it was misleading (given the Canadiens played matches prior to that in the NHA. Harrias talk 07:45, 19 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • "He won the Vezina Trophy on two occasions, and was named team captain of the 1933–34 season, and led his team to win their first Stanley Cup." Not sure about "team captain of the 1933–34 season"; maybe try replacing "of" with "for" to fix it. Also, the double "and"s lead to some flow issues. What do you think of "leading his team to win their first Stanley Cup" for the last part?
  • One more thing from that sentence: the Stanley Cup link is repeated from earlier in the lead and isn't really needed.
  • Last sentence of the lead could use a reference.
  • Not the most important thing in the world, but alt text for the images would be nice.
  • In the position column, the second words of "Left Wing" and "Right Wing" should probably be decapitalized, since those aren't proper nouns or usually capitalized.
  • In the Owen Nolan caption, "Gold" should also be decapitalized, and the caption itself could do with a cite.
  • Two of the three See also links are used in the lead; those don't need copying here if used earlier.
  • Note 2: "Active" isn't capitalized in the heading, and it's incorrect to do so here if that's the case (and I agree that it shouldn't be capitalized there).
  • Maybe it's just me, but it seems odd that the number 1,000 has a comma in the lead but none in the table for the two players who've reached that number. I'd use the comma myself, but I'd prefer it to be consistent either way. Giants2008 (Talk) 22:30, 10 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Made fixes based on most of your comments. Haven't added any alt text yet, nor added a reference for Nolan's gold. Adding a comma into the 1,000 for the table will probably cause sortability issues, so I will wait until I've got a little more time before trying that too. Should get these three things done later day or tomorrow. Harrias talk 13:23, 13 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Added alt text, and commas into table. The sortability still seems to work for me, if anyone else has issues, please let me know! Harrias talk 11:08, 15 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Resolved comments from NapHit (talk) 23:07, 30 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Comments
  • "Steve Thomas and Owen Nolan have played over 1,000 regular season games..." I would remove the have in this sentence, as it sounds like they are still playing, which is what I inferred from the sentence, with just played its clear they are not.
  • Per WP:ACCESS, I would recommend replacing the dagger with † as people using screen readers have trouble distinguishing the normal dagger. NapHit (talk) 23:30, 29 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Support NapHit (talk) 23:07, 30 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Resolved comments from –Grondemar 00:34, 2 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
* Comments from –Grondemar:
    • I notice you only listed the debut team for these players, rather than all the teams these players played for over the course of their careers. I randomly picked out a sports FL showing a list of players and representing their entire careers rather than a single year or draft, 50 Greatest Players in NBA History. That list showed all of the teams each player played for along with the years. I realize that including this information would hurt list sortability, but I think it would be good information to include. I could be persuaded otherwise, however.
    • I realize you included "RS" and "PO" in the key, but still when I first glanced at the list I had no idea what they meant. I suggest adding another header row, with "Games played" over both of these statistics.
      • Done. Harrias talk 14:53, 12 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
        • Thanks, but I think the table would look a bit better (and maybe be a little more accessible) if the RS and PO headers were under the Games Played label, rather than over. –Grondemar 03:56, 14 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
          • I agree, but I can't find a way of doing that which doesn't mess up the sortability unfortunately. If anyone else can sort this, feel free! Harrias talk 18:02, 14 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
    • It might be a good idea to add statistics such as goals scored, assists, points, and (for goalies) GAA; however I can also see how that might clutter the list.
    • You might want to consider renaming the article List of National Hockey League players born in the United Kingdom, since that is more precisely what the article is about.
    • Another consideration for data to be added to the article, in addition to the Hall of Fame, would be Stanley Cups won, All-Star appearances, and other trophies won.
      • References are hard to find for these, and I would be quite worried that I had missed someone! Harrias talk 14:53, 12 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Hope these suggestions are helpful. –Grondemar 01:21, 9 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
    • In answer to a number of the points made, I felt that adding too much information would clutter the page up too much. More information can be found on all the players on their own page, and I figured that this was the best balance. You might be able to argue the addition of some more, but the problem comes that a couple more can lead to a lot more, and we need to be wary that not everyone has a hugely wide screen! The decision not to list all the teams came from the baseball lists that I based the article upon, though they did admittedly list the last team too. With regards to further statistics, because hockey seperates these stats for the regular season and playoffs, it would create a lot lot more information that I don't think would fit on the screen! The goalie stats also pose a problem, would goalies then be listed seperately, or would this create even more columns? Harrias talk 14:53, 12 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
      • You make good points here; let me think on this and get back to you. –Grondemar 03:56, 14 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support pending resolution of the image concerns below. After further consideration, I believe this format meets WP:FLCR. –Grondemar 00:37, 2 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Image review

Goodraise 03:35, 29 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

  • Fixed the first two for the nom. But the second two I don't actually agree that they are incorrect. The authors are mentioned and the information is correct. It is laid out in the normal manner for images on commons that have been transferred there from en. -DJSasso (talk) 12:35, 29 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • WP:IUP is part of WP:WIAFL. What commons wants is irrelevant to us, here at FLC. The first still does not state under what license it can be used in the US. The third refers to an "original", but doesn't name it. Goodraise 14:26, 29 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • The first one actually does, anything that qualifies for PD-Canada that was taken prior to 1996 is public domain in the United States. Being that the subject of this article died in 1919 the picture had to be taken prior to 1949 as required. However I have added a redundant tag. -DJSasso (talk) 14:37, 29 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • The first image has now been replaced with the same image from the commons, and I have left a message on the talk page of the user who uploaded the third image in the first place. Harrias talk 17:22, 29 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • It is well possible that User:Tempo21 is copyright holder of said "original". If so, it would be enough to exchange "Cropped from original" with "Own work". Goodraise 21:54, 29 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I've removed the Thomas image for the time being, given the possible copyright concerns. Harrias talk 07:39, 2 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]


The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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