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The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was promoted by User:Scorpion0422 04:49, 30 May 2008 [1].

List of Texan survivors of the Battle of the Alamo[edit]

Self-nom. This is a list of the Texan survivors of the Battle of the Alamo. The list is as comprehensive as current research allows, and I have noted the instances where there are disagreements among historians as to whether an individual deserves inclusion. This is my first attempt to create a FL, and I welcome all feedback to help me improve it. Karanacs (talk) 03:05, 7 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from The Rambling Man (talk · contribs)

Certainly an area outside my expertise but I found it an interesting list nonetheless. Some comments...

  • Debate is on-going on WT:FLC regarding the simple emboldening and repetition of list name in the opening sentence of the lead. While this one is slightly better than most, you could consider a more descriptive opening sentence to capture the imagination and forgo the emboldening altogether. Just a thought.
  • You link Antonio Lopez de Santa Anna twice in quick succession.
  • You link Mexican Texas twice in the lead as well and pipe it to Texas. To a non-expert (e.g. me) this is confusing.
  • "had huddled together " a little bit POV.
  • " two ultimately survived" I think ultimately is a little redundant?
  • San Antonio de Bexar is linked twice in the lead.
  • I'd prefer to see births and deaths in separate columns.
  • I'd prefer names in normal order, you can use the {{sortname}} template to ensure the sort still works.
  • Remove Alsbury's period in his status column.
  • You use black and Negro interchangeably - is there a preference or is this ok? Just a question...
  • Order references numerically, you have [22][20] for example.
  • I never find sorting notes is very helpful since it's free text.
  • I'd pipe the {{reflist}} with 2 since the footnotes are all very short.

That's a start for you. The Rambling Man (talk) 06:51, 7 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for your very helpful comments. I've implemented changes to address almost all of these issues. I would prefer not to separate out the birth and death years; I had it that way originally and it made the notes column too compressed to be very useful. I'm also not that familiar with sortable table script, and I'm not sure how to make it sort everything except the notes. I'd appreciate any advice on that matter. Karanacs (talk) 13:46, 7 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comments I've never actually commented on an FLC before; hopefully my comments aren't too out of whack.
    • I'm concerned that the lead may not be establishing enough context for our non-American readers. For example, I'd suggest including the location of the battle in the first sentence. "after an insurgent army" to "after an insurgent army of Texans" perhaps? "freedman" - link?
    • "fewer than 50 of the Texans" Context needed here. "fewer than 50 of the ___# Texans"
    • "Negro cook"??? It's not in quotes. BuddingJournalist 08:12, 15 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for your comments. I don't know what I'm doing either, but I think you brought up good points. I've added some detail to the lead to insert the name of the city in the first sentence as well as the number of Texans thought to be at the Alamo (although that is an estimate at best - historians are still arguing about it). I've also added detail about the makeup of the army, added a wikilink to freedman, and rewritten the description of Ben so that it makes more sense. I've been living and breathing the Texas Revolution for a few weeks now, and I definitely appreciate any other pointers about knowledge I may be assuming people already have. Karanacs (talk) 21:51, 15 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Very good. Though I can't check your facts and know nothing about the subject, it appears thoroughly referenced. I had to read the lead a few times before I got it. The first time, I thought "brought to Santa Anna" meant a place and then couldn't figure out how a place could be "impressed with Susanna Dickinson". Jim Bowie is mentioned without explaining who he is. The last sentence confused me. Why would Santa Anna try to impress Joe, a slave? It is a bit ambiguous which "his" is "his army". I'm guessing (from what follows) you mean Santa Anna's army, but the "surviving members" bit causes confusion with the topic of this list. And why is it worth noting that this parade gave "Joe an opportunity to judge the strength"? A quick look at the main article indicates Joe might have been important in relaying his account to others. Did that information prove useful? Colin°Talk 22:00, 15 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I've revamped the lead a bit more. It's now organized in a more logical manner, and it has a new paragraph that explains why Santa Anna wanted to impress Joe and what the result was. I've also further clarified some of the details that were confusing. Karanacs (talk) 13:49, 20 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks. That helped. Colin°Talk 17:05, 21 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Well-organized and interesting list, with a solid lead. One question: Ben is referred to as a "Negro cook"; I'd change that, as it's certainly not a term in modern usage—and it's not a quote. MeegsC | Talk 09:41, 27 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks, I thought I had fixed that everywhere. It should all be changed to more modern terminology now. Karanacs (talk) 12:42, 27 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support, list looks really good. GreenJoe 00:25, 28 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Comments

  • I'd like to see the timezone (wikilinked) included with 6:30 a.m. in the lead
  • "fewer than 50 of the less than 250 Texans" I know what it means, but "fewer than... the less than" in the same sentence is clumsy. Perhaps "fewer than 50 of nearly 250 Texans"?
  • Do you have a reference for the final sentence of the lead?
  • Not a deal-breaker, but can you separate the birth/death column into two separate ones? That way the death dates can be sortable, too
  • Are three references needed for Joe, Guerrero and Alsbury? Are these people particularly controversial or disputed in some way that extra verification is needed?

That's all I got. Matthewedwards (talk · contribs · count · email) 06:03, 29 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

  • The concept of a timezone was only invented in 1847, and only came to the US around 1870. So 6:30 am should be interpreted as local time, whatever that may be. That time, expressed as Central Time might well be quite different. Colin°Talk 08:32, 29 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Thanks for your comments. The three references are necessary because no one source included all of the information for each person. I've also experimented with separating the birth and death dates, but it made the notes column too short and the table looked very bad. I've reworded the "fewer than ...less than" sentence as you suggested, and added a citation for the last sentence. Karanacs (talk) 14:44, 29 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Support Everything checks out. Matthewedwards (talk · contribs · count · email) 20:00, 29 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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