Wikipedia:Featured list candidates/List of The Boat Race results/archive1

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was withdrawn by SchroCat 09:47, 5 May 2015 [1].

List of The Boat Race results[edit]

List of The Boat Race results (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

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Nominator(s): The Rambling Man (talk) 18:31, 1 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

So, part of The Boat Race mega-work. This has been spun off from the main Boat Race article as it took up an awful lot of space and was better placed as an individual article. I've added in a bunch of factoids and prose lead and some nice images from "over the years". Of course, I will be 100% dedicated to resolving each and every issue levelled against the list, I look forward to hearing from the community. As always, I thank each and every one of you for your time invested and energy spent in this process. The Rambling Man (talk) 18:31, 1 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from Rodw A nice looking list but a few questions/comments:

  • In the lead the link to the 1877 race is a bit of a teaser and may need to be explained (otherwise there could be a light blue riot)
    Could you be kind enough to suggest something that wouldn't result in 'Tabs running riot? I expand on it in the main part of the article... The Rambling Man (talk) 19:59, 1 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Maybe just "this excludes the dead heat in 1877, which Oxford claim they won by 5 feet (1.5 m)" or something similar.— Rod talk 09:20, 2 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • I think it best if I remove that Oxon claim altogether from the lead and deal with it in the main text, which I've done. The Rambling Man (talk) 13:28, 2 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • In the infobox we see largest margin of victory = 35 lengths - and yet in the table we get "easily" is this more or less than 35 lengths (how long is a length anyway?) & is that claim backed up by a reference anywhere?
    Yep, that's my laziness. "Easily" is what some of the official results have been recorded as, and actually, as I note in the main text, the majority (i.e. all but six) of the races have been held on a different course from that one where 35 lengths was the winning margin. I can do a number of things here, remove the "biggest winning margin" altogether, caveat it with where it was made and include the main winning margin, try to explain to the reader that often, in early times, "easily" was a standard way of reporting results....? Also, a "length" is really not that well defined but often used, even in reliable sources. Back in the day, they had to count the seconds between the winner crossing the line and the loser following up. Divide by about three, that's how many "lengths" are reported. The Rambling Man (talk) 19:59, 1 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]
    I see you've taken it out. All sounds a bit casual in the "old days" before the current microsecond technologies came into play. While we are discussing units - how much is a "canvas" is it less that the 1 ft (30 cms) given in the infobox?— Rod talk 09:20, 2 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]
    It certainly was a lot more "approximate"! A canvas is longer than a foot, if you look at a modern rowing eight (or this which shows a coxed four), the canvas extends from just behind the bow man (or just behind/in front of the cox, depending on which end you're talking about, and where the cox is situated!!) to the tip of the boat. It's usually several feet. The Rambling Man (talk) 13:26, 2 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]
    I'm learning a lot from this I thought it meant the width of canvas (ie half an inch or less).— Rod talk 13:41, 2 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]
    Glad to be of service! The Rambling Man (talk) 13:43, 2 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]
    I came to ask the same question - to me, "canvas" is another word for the sails ... but boats solely propelled by oars don't have sails. The article on the Boat Race 1980 doesn't explain it either, whereas the Boat Race 1952 uses the term three times, one of which has the parenthesis "(approximately 9 feet (2.7 m))", with no further explanation. I think that in this list, "canvas" should either be defined in a footnote, or be linked, perhaps to an article on rowing terminology. --Redrose64 (talk) 14:34, 2 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]
    Sure, it can be linked to the glossary if you think that helps? Individual rowing articles should definitely not be the place to explain rowing terminology, if we need a better explanation in the glossary, that's a different question. The Rambling Man (talk) 16:19, 2 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Should the "1 foot" for the smallest margin have a metric conversion?
    Infobox? I've modified it. The Rambling Man (talk) 19:59, 1 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • In the table itself I see the Number column links to one of your myriad articles which provide references for the statistics (eg winning time, margin of victory etc) but these don't seem to be supported by citations on the list page. I know it will be a major job to add citations for all of them, but I tjhink it has to be done & I know you have all possible reference materials on this topic.— Rod talk 19:11, 1 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Just a quick response, all of the results (i.e. winning margins, times) are referenced by the Boat Race "results" page. Do you want more than that? The Rambling Man (talk) 19:51, 1 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Ah I see now the ref 6 in the header of the column provides the source - I hadn't spotted that before.— Rod talk 09:20, 2 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The new section on "Unofficial wartime races" which is referenced to The Times (Refs 15-18) however these are showing a CS1 error "|accessdate= requires |url=" either a link to web site (even if behind a paywall) should be added or the accessdate removed. They may be in BNA if you have access (if not some free accounts are available).— Rod talk 09:15, 3 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

As you could see, I didn't add this section, but it's adding some value, so I'll do my best to work on that. The Rambling Man (talk) 20:30, 3 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I've now resolved those "CS1" errors (not that I know what a CS1 error is, nor which actually show up to most normal readers, FWIW, but hey, in for a penny etc etc). The Rambling Man (talk) 21:16, 3 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]
CS1 = Citation Style 1. A CS1 error is a red error message emitted by any of those templates. Most (all?) of them are described at Help:CS1 errors. --Redrose64 (talk) 21:40, 3 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks. As I said, they only show up to some dedicated editors, and not our readers. But they should be fixed now. The Rambling Man (talk) 21:42, 3 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks fixed.— Rod talk 07:50, 4 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Comments from Harrias
  • Only glanced through this so far, but my main concern is with the Goldie/Isis table. I guess the columns for the team names are just alphabetical, but for me it looked a bit confusing having Oxford on the left and Cambridge on the right in the "Main race" table, but Goldie (Cambridge) on the left and Isis (Oxford) on the right in the "Reserves race" table. Harrias talk 20:54, 1 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]
    Good point. I'm not even really sure how relevant this listing is, but I'm happy to stick with these results being included, and will perform a dramatic switcheroo any time soon.... (ish). The Rambling Man (talk) 20:57, 1 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]
    Switch performed. The Rambling Man (talk) 13:26, 2 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Comments
  • Ref 13 ""University Boat Race". The Times. 17 December 1849" and ref 21 "Rosewell, Mike (2 April 1990). "Light Blue Light at the end of the tunnel"" need {{subscription required}}, or something similar
    Fixed. The Rambling Man (talk) 07:59, 4 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • ISBN for Burnell, Richard (1979) should optimally be 13-digit hyphenated; see WP:ISBN for a converter.
    Fixed. The Rambling Man (talk) 07:59, 4 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • on the Thames in south-west London. why not add this on the first mention of the Thames?
    Because the first race wasn't in south-west London. The Rambling Man (talk) 07:59, 4 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]
    OK. Seattle (talk) 16:21, 4 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • officially recorded that Oxford won the race "easily". where? by whom? Can you provide direct reference for this quote?
    In the official record, referenced by The Boat Race Company Limited list of results. The Rambling Man (talk) 07:59, 4 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Having won the ninth Boat Race "easily" can you reference this directly?
    Ok. The Rambling Man (talk) 07:59, 4 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • the only time in the history of the event that the race was decided in such a manner "in the history of the event" superfluous phrase; used twice in this section
    Tweaked. The Rambling Man (talk) 07:59, 4 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • (which has been widely accepted as a victory to Oxford by several feet) accepted by whom? Can you provide a few references here?
    Added. The Rambling Man (talk) 07:59, 4 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]
    Thanks. Seattle (talk) 16:21, 4 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • The overall record has been tied on just three occasions: following The Boat Race 1836, it was one victory each, Oxford's third consecutive triumph in the 1863 race took the record to 10–10, while Cambridge's sixth victory in a streak of thirteen wins between 1924 and 1936 tied the universities at 40–40 can you rework this? Oxford's third consecutive triumph especially doesn't flow with the rest of the sentence
    I can't see an issue with this. But I split it into two sentences. The Rambling Man (talk) 07:59, 4 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]
    It ran on. It reads much better now. Thanks. Seattle (talk) 16:21, 4 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • In 1943, a race in front of a crowed estimated to be between 7,000 and 10,000 took place at Sandford-on-Thames... → In 1943, a race took place at Sandford-on-Thamesn in front of a crowd estimated to be between 7,000 and 10,000
    As you like. The Rambling Man (talk) 07:59, 4 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • 24 March 1877 "Dead Heat" in the "margin of victory" section but "Dead heat" in the "Winner" section
    Fixed. The Rambling Man (talk) 07:59, 4 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • "1940–1945 no race" not sure this is accurate; no official races, but races occurred
    Tweaked. The Rambling Man (talk) 07:59, 4 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • "foul" sorts last in the "Winning time" section of the main race table but "No time" in the "Reserve races" section sorts first
    Well, I've tried all sorts of tricks with sort templates and nothing seems to fix this. The Rambling Man (talk) 07:59, 4 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]
    Will leave this out as well. Seattle (talk) 16:21, 4 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Why aren't scope col tags used on any of the tables?
    Added, but I have been "reliably" informed that the wikitable class now provides these without having to code them explicitly. The Rambling Man (talk) 07:59, 4 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • I'm not sure the "No." column is needed at all; can't you just link the "date" to the article and use scope row tags for that column?
    I disagree. The Boat Races are variously referred to by both their year and their number, so both are relevant here. The Rambling Man (talk) 07:59, 4 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Vanity Fair shouldn't be italicized in the photo captions

Oppose overall, based largely on 5(b) concerns. Seattle (talk) 05:39, 4 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. Responses above. The Rambling Man (talk) 07:59, 4 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Withdraw nomination thanks to Rodw, Harrias and Seattle for your comments and assistance in improving the list. It is currently subject to an edit war, and I am no longer pursuing it to FL. As such I would like this nomination to be withdrawn. Sorry for wasting your time. The Rambling Man (talk) 16:49, 4 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]
    • The nomination has only been open a few days, so has plenty of time left to run. Obviously, it's up to you, but there is no rush on account of FLC at the moment. I have every hope that the edit warring can be resolved before this FLC needs closing. If not, what harm in trying to come to a solution and then withdrawing in a week's time? Harrias talk 18:17, 4 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]
      • No, it's fine, thanks Harrias. I have no desire to pursue this any further, we're at loggerheads, a very unpleasant encounter indeed. Of course, someone far more diplomatic than me can renominate the list, I've barely touched it really since it was spun off, so no problems there. Thanks again for your support and interest. The Rambling Man (talk) 18:24, 4 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]
      • @SchroCat: would you mind closing this please? The Rambling Man (talk) 09:42, 5 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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