Wikipedia:Featured list candidates/List of international goals scored by Ali Daei/archive1

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was promoted by PresN via FACBot (talk) 00:25, 14 November 2020 (UTC) [1].[reply]

List of international goals scored by Ali Daei[edit]

List of international goals scored by Ali Daei (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

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Nominator(s): Mojtaba2361 (talk) 03:03, 18 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I am nominating this for featured list because of it has covers Wp:Featured list criteria. Ali Daei is all-time men's top goalscorer with 109 goals and one of the Legend of AFC in all-time.this is one of the best list in this area.I've featured this list in fa wiki too. it has additional tables and informations from similar lists and i have improved it from this version to current version.i have noticed the details for all sections of this list too.thanks. Mojtaba2361 (talk) 03:03, 18 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

this is my first nomination and i've searched many references and read very lists to do my best.i spent much times for improving this list.please help me to solve the problems.thanks all of you--Mojtaba2361 (talk) 03:55, 19 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Source review – pass[edit]

  • What makes teammelli.com a reliable source?
  • What makes national-football-teams.com a reliable source?
  • The references need to be tidied: for example, if teammelli.com is reliable, then refs #86 to #93 need to be expanded to give more detail, while some other references need to be made consistent.
  • Is the "Record of Iran, When Daei scored" table original research based on the RSSSF list?
  • The "Stadiums that Daei scored in them" table is unreferenced.
  • The "Goals by year" table is unreferenced.
  • The "Goals by competition" table is unreferenced.
  • The "Goals by confederation" table is unreferenced.
  • The "Goals by opposition" table is unreferenced.

That's it on a quick first pass. Harrias talk 06:56, 18 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

thanks for your comment.first thing i must say that i checked all the same lists and get note from each for improving this list. both site are reliable,i asked before from an admin and they are used in many articles include some featured list.for 1st ref you can see Category:Iran national football team results and for second ref, we have this {{NFT player}} so they are reliable.86 to 93 are additional refs and i improve them as you say.the record of iran becomes from the main table.add green column for example for winning and so..i solved them--Mojtaba2361 (talk) 17:46, 18 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@Mojtaba2361: Sorry, let me be clearer in my wording. Please demonstrate what makes "teammelli.com" and "national-football-teams.com" reliable, based upon WP:RS. Saying that "an admin" says it is okay is not sufficient. All references must be filled out to include all relevant information in a consistent fashion to meet FL criteria. To avoid further confusion, I currently oppose the promotion of this list due to the sourcing concerns. Harrias talk 17:51, 18 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@Harrias: a few sites have ali daei's statistic because he was older footballer.many refs are from 11v11.com as you can see List of international goals scored by Alfredo Di Stéfano (other candidates of fl) that use this. please see List of top international men's football goal scorers by country, many refs are from National Football Teams.95% of refs in my list are from above site.A few of them from teammelli or national football (for auxiliary links).if team melli.com wasn't reliable it couldn't be used in many articles.the template i pointed above is for national football team site. if it doesn't reliable it can't have template. i'll solve your concern about ref.wait please..--Mojtaba2361 (talk) 18:03, 18 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@Harrias: i Resolved your worries about refs Harrias, are you satisfied with it?--Mojtaba2361 (talk) 11:56, 20 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@Harrias: how is it now?--Mojtaba2361 (talk) 21:07, 29 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Just a note that I can see a lot of work has gone into this, and that I will return to review my concerns as soon as possible: tomorrow if I can. Harrias talk 21:09, 29 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Further comments

  • I am still unconvinced that national-football-teams.com meets our criteria for a reliable source, please demonstrate why you think it does.
  • Ref #4 appears to be dead.
  • Ref #7 is missing the author details "armband", apparently, and the title of the website is "Sports Nova".
  • For refs #91 and #93, reformat the website as FBref.com, per their site, and add "Sports-Reference" as the publisher. Harrias talk 09:07, 30 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@Harrias: i don't know how can i exactly prove that site is reliable but i know that that site has articles in two wiki and footnote template {{NFT player}}. In addition, many articles in Wikipedia use it as a source like: List of top international men's football goal scorers by country, List of Lebanon international footballers, Benjamin Mendy, List of Republic of Ireland international footballers and Leslie Notši . Benjamin Strack-Zimmermann the writer of the site is famous writer in this area and my search showed his name existed in 5241 articles of wiki. Only 8 of 94 Refs are from this site(about 8%) because 11v11 doesn't cover those matches so we can be a little flexible for using it.thanks.--Mojtaba2361 (talk) 00:26, 1 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
ref 4 replaced with 2 other refs. other refs you said amended. Best regards--Mojtaba2361 (talk) 00:26, 1 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@Harrias: please see the refs again. there's no separate NTF's refs.they are used as aid links.the main is RSSSF for those rows.is it ok now?--Mojtaba2361 (talk) 04:10, 13 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
It is still used alone as ref #10 and ref #48a. Harrias (he/him) • talk 07:14, 13 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Reformat ref #4 to remove the website address, and use Persian Gulf Pro League as the publisher.
  • Format the title of ref #5 in title case, and add These Football Times as the work.
  • Ref #9, "Persian Times" should be the work, not the publisher. Harrias (he/him) • talk 07:14, 13 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@Harrias: ref 10 changed and others  Fixed--Mojtaba2361 (talk) 15:17, 13 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for all your work on this, I am now content that the sourcing requirements of the FL criteria have been met. Note that I will claim WikiCup points for this review. Harrias (he/him) • talk 15:32, 13 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Resolved comments from ChrisTheDude (talk)
;Comments

An awful lot of work to do here, I'm afraid......

  • Lead image needs a better caption than just his name
  • Lead should not be in six very short paragraphs
  • "Ali Daei is the all-time men's top goalscorer and a former Iranian football player who holds the record for the most goals in international men's football" - this says exactly the same thing twice and should be reworded
  • "His achievement listed in Guinness World Records" => "His achievement is listed in Guinness World Records"
  • No explanation as to what "Team Melli" is
  • "qualification for 1994 FIFA World Cup" => "qualification for the 1994 FIFA World Cup"
  • "at Asian Cup qualifier in Tehran against Lebanon" => "in an Asian Cup qualifier in Tehran against Lebanon"
  • "elevating him past Hungarian legend" - calling someone a legend is not NPOV
  • "making him the first male player to score 100 goals in international caps" => "making him the first male player to score 100 goals in international football"
  • "He has scored eight international Hat-tricks." - no reason for capital H there
  • "On 1 March 2006, His final goal" - no reason for capital H there
  • "His final caps for Team Melli was in 2006 FIFA World Cup" => "His final cap for Team Melli was in the 2006 FIFA World Cup"
  • "final goal came in 3–2 victory over Costa Rica in friendly match" => "final goal came in a 3–2 victory over Costa Rica in a friendly match"
  • "He scored eight goals against Maldives" => "He scored eight goals against the Maldives"
  • Last sentence of the lead does not have a full stop
  • "National Statistics" - no reason for capital S
  • "All apperences" - second word is spelt wrong
  • "Daei scored 109 goals in 149 Caps." - no reason for capital C
  • Actually, both tables in this section are not standard in lists like this and should be removed anyway
  • "(4)1–1(3)" - no explanation as to what this means. The result should be shown simply as 1-1 with the fact that Iran won on penalties in a footnote
  • There is no key for the colours in the result column
  • Hat-tricks section should not have a wikilink in the heading
  • "Daei's last hat-trick against Laos, allowed him to become first male player to score 100 goals in international caps" => "Daei's last hat-trick against Laos allowed him to become the first male player to score 100 goals in international football."
  • No other such article has a table breaking goals down by stadium - get rid of it
  • Ref 1 - missing publication date
  • Ref 2 - "Goal (website)" should be piped to Goal
  • Refs 3 and 4 have no publisher, also the dates are in a completely different format to other refs
  • Ref 5 - the publisher is not "national football team"
  • Refs 9 and 10 missing publication date
  • Ref 11 has the publisher as RSSSF.com, but ref 8 just had it as RSSSF
  • Ref 63 has a strange random pipe at the start of the title
  • Ref 68 is missing "11v11.com"
  • Refs 86 to 93 have no publisher, publication date or access date
  • What makes teammelli.com a reliable source? Can't you just re-use the 11v11 sources, anyway?
  • Think that's it from me..... -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 07:33, 18 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
thanks for your time to reviewing the article Mr.chris..one thing that i have to say is i done an innovation for this list,fore example: by stadium section. it shows that Daei scored in 74 matches and some other informations inspired from this FL so it can be use in similar lists in future (like hat-trick section that wasn't in similar FL lists in 2008 and they are new.Ronaldo's goals not included this part when become featured list,and it added recently).if others says they are extra too, i'll remove them at last.11v11.com doesn't have some matches and i replaced them with national.com or team melli (i explain above for Harris about this).cr7's list has not key for the colours too but i add key for this list.all of above about sentences and refs and lead  Done.i'll improve lead a little more. thanks a lot--Mojtaba2361 (talk) 01:22, 19 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I'll see what other people think, but if the venues section is kept, the heading should be "Goals by venue" because "venues of scoring" is not good English. And the title of the table should be "Goals by stadium" not what it currently is...... -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 10:32, 19 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
thanks.i changed the titles.anything more?--Mojtaba2361 (talk) 15:00, 19 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, quite a lot. The lead is still in six tiny paragraphs. the "all appearances" and "scoring matches" tables are still there, which I said should be removed. There is still at least one random capital letter in the middle of a sentence. There are still references with bad formatting. Please read all my points above and action them all -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 16:52, 19 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Harrias and ChrisTheDude: hello.i changed the refs and adding Rsssf helping link near of 2 sites.the links include iran's squads and daei's goals. Are you satisfied with it?--Mojtaba2361 (talk) 03:49, 19 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Still not seeing much evidence of the reliability of teammelli.com........ -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 17:10, 19 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@ChrisTheDude: all of above  Done, lead improved, refs changed and amended, two sections deleted.--Mojtaba2361 (talk) 02:32, 20 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Further comments
  • Lead image caption needs a full stop
  • "elevating him past Hungarian footballer, Ferenc Puskás" - no reason for that comma
  • "Daei was called up to join Iran national football team" => "Daei was called up to join the Iran national football team"
  • Why is Team Melli shown once in italics and once not?
  • You also don't need to wikilink Team Melli twice in the same paragraph
  • "his final goal came in 3–2 victory" => "his final goal came in a 3–2 victory"
  • "His final appearance for Team Melli was in 2006 FIFA World Cup" => "His final appearance for Team Melli was in the 2006 FIFA World Cup"
  • "in a 8–0 win" => "in an 8–0 win"
  • "On 17 November 2004, his last hat-trick against Laos" => "On 17 November 2004, he scored his last hat-trick against Laos"
  • "He has scored 44 international goals" => "He scored 44 international goals"
  • Ref 5 lists Rec.Sport.Soccer Statistics Foundation as the publisher but other refs from the same site do not
  • Ref 88 lists no publisher
  • Ref 9 uses publisher=national football team, other refs list website=national-football-teams.com
  • Nearly there :-) -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 08:49, 20 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@ChrisTheDude: all of above  Done. thanks for your accuracy and helping me. i have a little experience,but i'll learn from you for my FL's projects in the future.--Mojtaba2361 (talk) 11:49, 20 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 17:46, 20 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support -- Editor7798 (talk) 19:46, 24 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • On a very cursory read, I'm spotting issues. "Iranian football player" seems like an WP:EGG. "Tehran times" is incorrect capitalization. There's a missing space at the end of a sentence in the introduction. Alt text is missing. I assume that for every error I spotted, there's likely quite a few I didn't. This needs some more work. {{u|Sdkb}} talk 04:27, 26 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    @Sdkb: thanks for your cm. I amended them. I done many works for this article. Every featured nomination can have particall problems for solving. I have a few FL in Fawiki and a little experience here but i'll learn more and more--Mojtaba2361 (talk) 01:01, 28 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Resolved comments from MWright96 (talk) 19:24, 29 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
====Comments by MWright96====
  • The two images should include alt text per MOS:ALT
  • "who holds the record of" - of the
  • "elevating him past Hungarian footballer Ferenc Puskás to top the" - to take the lead of the
  • The wikilink ECO Cup should be directed to 1993 ECO Cup
  • "His first international goal came in the 6–0 win" - a 6–0 victory
  • Friendly match(es) should be wikilinked on the first mention not the second
  • "Daei scored 36 goals in FIFA World Cup qualification" - the word "matches" should be included at the end of this portion of text
  • "and 23 goals in AFC Asian Cup qualification" - the word "games" is better to be added at the end of this text for clarification
  • The wikilink for AFC Asian Cup Finals in the fourth paragraph should be changed from AFC Asian Cup to List of AFC Asian Cup finals
  • "His final appearance for Team Melli was in the 2006 FIFA World Cup against Angola." - the date of this match could be benefical to include
  • For the above sentence, it would also be benefical to include what stage of the World Cup Daei played his final international match
  • "he scored his last hat-trick against Laos in a 2006 FIFA World Cup Qualification," - the word "match" is missing from the end of this portion of text
  • "He scored 44 international goals at Azadi Stadium," - at the
  • Azadi Stadium should be linked once not twice in the lead
  • "his highest tally against one country" - any
  • In both the international goals and hat-trick tables, there needs to be more rowspan templates in the venue sections where appropriate so it can be expanded from just one single game where Daei scored one or more goals at the same venue to successive games at the same venue where Daei scored one or more goals. See List of international goals scored by Sunil Chhetri for an example.
  • All of the dates in the dates columns in the international goals and hat-tricks tables could do with the addition of the date table sorting template. Template:Date table sorting will provider further details on how to do this.
  • The four mentions of the phrase "friendly matches" in the international goals table should be replaced by just "Friendly"
  • A table caption is missing from the top of the hat-tricks table to comply with MOS:ACCESS. This quote by PresN might apply to this list: "In the case that the table is the first thing in a section where the section header is essentially the same as what the caption would be, and therefore looks duplicative visually, you can make the caption screen reader-only with the {{sronly}} template, e.g. "|+ {{sronly|Example table caption}}" instead of "
  • The goals by year table in the statistics section is missing the scope="col" for the columns
  • The goals by year table should ideally be made sortable for assessibility
  • All three of the notes should have a referenced added to the end of them for verifiablity
  • The hyphens in refs 5 and 92 need to be replaced by en dashes (–) per MOS:DASH
  • Reference 5 is missing the authors
  • The word nova in "Sport nova" in Reference 7 should begin with a capital letter
  • The title of Reference 87 should not be in all capital letters per MOS:ALLCAPS
  • Same issue as above but with Reference 92
  • The word times in "Tehran times" in Reference 8 should start with a capital letter

That's all I've got for this review. Plenty to do for the nominator. MWright96 (talk) 13:45, 26 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@MWright96: Hello. Thanks for your time to reviewing the article and helping me. All of above  Done. I learned a lot from you and your accuracy. best regards.--Mojtaba2361 (talk) 01:10, 28 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Support – I have made two minor changes to the prose in the lead. MWright96 (talk) 19:24, 29 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

many thanks--Mojtaba2361 (talk) 21:04, 29 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Support - I can't see any issues.Pinkfloyd amir (talk) 15:08, 13 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from TRM[edit]

  • Every para of the lead starts with his (sur)name. Repetitive.
  • Make it clear that it's association football as many of our readers have no idea that other codes of football exist.
  • "all-time men's international top goalscorer" piped to a redirect, no good reason.
  • FourFourTwo is a work.
  • "On 28 November 2003, in an Asian Cup qualifier in Tehran against Lebanon, he scored his 85th ..." seems odd to discuss this before discussing his first ever international goal.
    the 1st para is about his record and it is a date for that--Mojtaba2361 (talk) 11:16, 2 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • " (also known as Team Melli) " only used once subsequently so remove and just refer to Iran as Iran.
  • Tehran is overlinked in the lead.
  • As is Laos.
  • "in a friendly matches" just "match" here.
  • "hat-trick" is used in three consecutive sentences making for boring and repetitive prose, please rework it.
  • "Daei scored 36 goals in FIFA World Cup qualification matches and 23 goals in AFC Asian Cup qualification games, as well as 14 goals in AFC Asian Cup Finals. The remainder of his goals, 27," 36+23+14+27 = 100. But he scored 109? You've left out the 9 at the Asian Games....
  • "against the Maldives and Laos," against two opposition teams, the Maldives and Laos.
  • What makes fbref.com a WP:RS?

That's it on a really swift first pass. The Rambling Man (Hands! Face! Space!!!!) 23:49, 31 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The Rambling Man thanks for your Cm TRM. i amended all of above.--Mojtaba2361 (talk) 11:12, 2 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Promoting. --PresN 15:27, 13 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • Closing note: This candidate has been promoted, but there may be a delay in bot processing of the close. Please see WP:FLC/ar, and leave the {{featured list candidates}} template in place on the talk page until the bot goes through.
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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