Wikipedia:Featured list candidates/List of international goals scored by Hassan Maatouk/archive1

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was promoted by Giants2008 via FACBot (talk) 00:26, 28 January 2020 (UTC) [1].[reply]

List of international goals scored by Hassan Maatouk[edit]

List of international goals scored by Hassan Maatouk (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

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Nominator(s): Nehme1499 (talk) 16:13, 29 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Having recently scored his 21st international goal, making him the all-time top goalscorer for his country, I have created Maatouk's list based on other FLs such as Ibrahimović's and Drogba's. I'm open for any suggestions and comments, so feel free to let me know if anything needs to be changed. Nehme1499 (talk) 16:13, 29 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Resolved comments from Kosack (talk)
Comments
  • The image doesn't need a full stop as it's a sentence fragment.
 Done Nehme1499 (talk) 14:04, 31 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • "in the Lebanon national football team", I think " for the Lebanon...." or "who represented the..." would work better here.
 Done Nehme1499 (talk) 14:04, 31 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Need an "as of October 2019" after his current tally.
 Done Nehme1499 (talk) 14:04, 31 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • The second sentence is a bit long, perhaps break after all-time top scorer?
 Done Nehme1499 (talk) 14:04, 31 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]
 Done Nehme1499 (talk) 14:04, 31 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Maatouk scored two brace during his international career", this shouldn't be in past tense as he's still an active player. Also, it should be braces to use the plural.
 Done Nehme1499 (talk) 14:04, 31 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Could link brace to Hat-trick as it does mention what the term is for.
 Done Nehme1499 (talk) 14:04, 31 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • "at the 2014 FIFA World Cup qualifications", this doesn't really work grammatically I don't think. Same with the Asian Cup brace.
I don’t know how to change this. Nehme1499 (talk) 14:04, 31 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Amended during ChrisTheDude's comments. Kosack (talk) 02:43, 4 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Internation goal", headings a bit off.
 Done Nehme1499 (talk) 14:04, 31 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Ref column doesn't really need to be sortable since it doesn't actually sort refs.
I don’t know how to make specific columns sortable, just the whole table. Can you help me out? Nehme1499 (talk) 14:04, 31 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I believe Lirim has already seen to this one. Kosack (talk) 13:42, 1 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • The NFT ref has him at 78 caps and 20 goals with the others designated as unofficial matches.
I’m unsure on why NFT does this, as all the goals he scored are full FIFA international games (as can be seen by the FIFA website). Nehme1499 (talk) 14:04, 31 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • The FIFA references, refs 4, 9 and 14, seem to have expired.
The desktop version works well, I don’t know why the match isn’t displayed on mobile view. Nehme1499 (talk) 14:04, 31 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]
No need to worry if it's working for the desktop version. Kosack (talk) 06:21, 1 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Ref 17 needs an author.
 Done Nehme1499 (talk) 14:04, 31 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • It's a little short on prose I feel (just over 1400kb). Are any of these goals worth mentioning in the text, e.g. Important or historic victories?
Not really, Lebanon have only ever qualified for one major tournament in their history: at the 2019 AFC Asian Cup. Maatouk scored in the final group stage match against North Korea to bring his tally to 20 goals, on par with the then top-scorer. The match ended 4-1, with a 4 goal difference needed to pass to the knockout stages: ultimately Maatouk’s goal was not influential. All other goals were either in friendlies, or other qualification matches (I have already written about his 5 goals in 6 games at the 2019 Asian Cup qualification). I’m not sure what else could be written. Nehme1499 (talk) 14:04, 31 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Understood. Kosack (talk) 02:43, 4 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

A few points from a quick run through. Kosack (talk) 08:51, 31 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Kosack: Thanks for your comments! I have taken care of most of your concerns, and commented on the rest. Nehme1499 (talk) 14:04, 31 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Comments

  • I did some improvements on the table already. Some comments are coming later, not much time right now.--Lirim | Talk 20:40, 31 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Lirim.Z Hey, I was just wondering if you had any comments regarding the nomination. Or even, if you support it (or not). Thanks, Nehme1499 (talk) 20:57, 26 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Resolved comments from ChrisTheDude (talk)
Comments
  • "in the 2022 FIFA World Cup qualifiers on 15 October 2019" => "in a 2022 FIFA World Cup qualifier on 15 October 2019"
 Done Nehme1499 (talk) 13:19, 2 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • "at the 2014 FIFA World Cup qualifications" => "in a 2014 FIFA World Cup qualifier" (and the same in the next sentence)
 Done Nehme1499 (talk) 13:19, 2 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • "More than half of his goals have come at home, having scored ten" => "He has scored more than half of his goals at home, with ten...."
 Done Nehme1499 (talk) 13:19, 2 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Ref 1 has no accessdate
 Done Nehme1499 (talk) 13:19, 2 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Refs 1 and 12 are to the same website but are formatted completely differently. One shows the website name while the other shows the URL, and they show Mr Strack-Zimmerman's name differently. Make them consistent.
I've removed the URL, but I'm unable to change the naming format on ref 1 as it's a template (it doesn't display the usual Surname, Name).
 Done Nehme1499 (talk) 13:19, 2 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Same with refs 4 and 20 - one shows the name, the other shows the URL
 Done Nehme1499 (talk) 13:19, 2 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Why do you show the "www" in some websites but not others? You show "www.the-afc.com" but just "FIFA.com". Again, be consistent
 Done Nehme1499 (talk) 13:19, 2 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@ChrisTheDude: Thanks for your help! Most All of your comments have been taken care of, except one small issue regarding Strack-Zimmerman's name. Nehme1499 (talk) 13:19, 2 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Resolved comments from Dey subrata (talk)
Comments
  • Ref 1 excessive use, add any other citation to reduce the use of citation to 4 times.
# With that I want to bring Giants2008 to decide on the authenticity of it. Same the Benjamin Strack-Zimmermann website "National Football Teams" reference is used. And in this case we don't have any RSSSF article yet. Even if I make one now for RSSSF it will be uploaded after several months. Thats why I was saying, the site is important for many wikipedia article as not all players have RSSSF article. And its authenticity as I described before to you already. Would ask you to consider it again, I think it will help a lot articles and afterall all the stats are correct here.
  • Ref 1, 12 change (website=National Football Teams) to (website=national-football-teams.com) or (work=National Football Teams)
 Done Nehme1499 (talk) 10:54, 22 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Refs 2, 7, 22: change (website=The AFC)=> (publisher=AFC).
 Done Nehme1499 (talk) 10:54, 22 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Refs 5,9,13,14 FIFA.com to fifa.com better remove website and include (publisher=FIFA)
 Done Nehme1499 (talk) 10:54, 22 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • In all other references templete, correct the website to website names like (Elsport News to elsport.com) or remove (website) and include (work/publisher).
 Done Nehme1499 (talk) 10:54, 22 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • If Giants2008 allow to keep the NFT citation then include the same in the external link, seeing the importance of the citation.
 Done Nehme1499 (talk) 10:54, 22 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • I would ask to change "Caps" to "Apps" in the "Goals by competition" to maintain consistency with "Goals by year" and to include "Apps" in the "Goals by opposition", otherwise thats looks incomplete.
 Done Nehme1499 (talk) 10:54, 22 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@Dey subrata: Actually, I have a problem with adding the caps to the Goals by opposition table, because either we put all the teams Maatouk played against (including the ones against which he didn't score) or we just keep the goals scored. If we were to add all the teams, the table would be ridiculously long. What do you think? Nehme1499 (talk) 19:45, 24 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Nehme1499 I really missed this one, I did not see. No it will not be long brother(after all he will score more goals right, the table will get long in time, you can't stop it from getting long, he scored just 21 now, many more to come, right now in two frame the article is over. Its not at all a big article, so don't worry). I asked you to include in the same Table of "Goals by opposition". It will be more interesting for reader to see how many goals scored in how many matches against a particular country. Thats after all the full information. You can check List of Sunil Chhetri which I get promoted, and compare with Messi, which one you find more interesting, might be Chhetri's but if you compare with Ronaldo's list you will find Ronaldo's list is more interesting as it got "Goals by confederations" but not asking to include that cause Ronaldo have significant number of goals against different confederations. I think you must add, that will make the article more interesting and more informative. Dey subrata (talk) 10:43, 26 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Dey subrata to be honest he won't really score that many more goals, he's 32 and has an average of 0.25 goals per game. Maybe he'll reach 25 goals, not more though. Anyway, I added the caps to the table and added the countries against which Maatouk has played but not scored. I still think that the table is a bit long, so I'll try to find a way to make a collapsible table inside the table itself so that it only shows (uncollapsed) the countries against which he scored, and hide (collapsed) the ones against who he didn't (and still show the bottom totals bar with 21 goals in 84 caps). Nehme1499 (talk) 12:53, 26 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Remove He made his debut for Lebanon in a 2–1 away win over Saudi Arabia on 27 January 2006., not required as seperate info. And write, He is the country's all-time top goalscorer and most-capped player. Since debuting for Lebanon against Saudi Arabia on 27 January 2006, Maatouk has scored 21 goals in 84 international appearances, as of November 2019.
 Done Nehme1499 (talk) 10:54, 22 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Also include the important information in the second paragraph, latest goals against Sri Lanka on 15th October which made him the highest goal scorer of his country surpassing Roda Antar's 20.
  • In the image template both alt line & display line are same better change the line for alt (alt=Hassan Maatouk playing against Saudi Arabia) or change the display line "Hassan Maatouk playing against Saudi Arabia in 2019" to "Hassan Maatouk has scored 21 international goals for Lebanon."
 Done Nehme1499 (talk) 10:54, 22 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

For now these are my concerns. Dey subrata (talk) 07:29, 22 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Dey subrata: I should have fixed all of your concerns. I'm still not fully clear about the national-football-teams problem though. For what I know, the source is reliable. Otherwise, I could replace it with an official table issued by the AFC which shows the goals and caps of all the players prior to the 2019 AFC Asian Cup (obviously, it's non updated to today as is shows statistics as of December 2018). Nehme1499 (talk) 10:54, 22 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I know the NFT website is correct, but recently I had words with the FL director Giants2008, where he was skeptical about it. Because the same thing will be repeated here too. So let him take a call here, or if he wants to take a consensus among editors. Lets wait for him to response. And I would ask you if you have any AFC reference as you are mentioning above then use it where ever your can to reduce the use of NFT reference, because its still showing 6 times, reduce to 4 times with the use of AFC reference if you have. That will be better. Dey subrata (talk) 11:54, 22 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Link Saudi Arabia team in the first para. And you missed the 2nd last point of including goal against Sri Lanka (21st goal) which made him the highest goal scorer of Lebanon. Dey subrata (talk) 12:10, 22 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
 Done Nehme1499 (talk) 12:25, 22 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Also, the AFC table won't be updated in the future. It shows 19 goals in 72 caps, as of 31 December 2018. The RSSSF reference will be updated in December, and will show Maatouk having 21 goals in 84 caps. Until then, the only reliable source in NFT. Nehme1499 (talk) 20:36, 23 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Hi Giants2008 , I think you are busy, but if you please take little time to address the issue, this one is different from my nom. In my nom. there were other alternative citation, like that of RSSSF. Same the Benjamin Strack-Zimmermann website "National Football Teams" reference is used here. And in this case we don't have any RSSSF article yet. Thats why I was saying, the site is important for many wikipedia article as not all players have RSSSF article. And its authenticity as I described before to you duing last discussion. Here the nominator also agree with it and the reviewer who also reviewed my nom., Kosack and ChrisTheDude seems to agree. Would ask you if you can consider it again, I think it will help a lot articles and afterall all the stats are correct in the site. Or any suggestion to the best of your knowledge. Thank you. Dey subrata (talk) 22:15, 24 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Frankly, my opinion of National Football Teams hasn't changed much from the previous FLC where it came up. I don't believe it is a reliable source for Wikipedia purposes, as useful as it may be, and think alternatives should be sought if possible. Giants2008 (Talk) 20:14, 26 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Giants2008 I find it strange to hear someone who says that NFT.com isn't a realiable source: actually, it is arguably the most reliable source for national team data. May I know the reasons why you believe NFT.com to not be reliable? Nehme1499 (talk) 21:57, 26 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
NFT is a generally useful site but there have been discussions in the past regarding whether it would qualify as a reliable source, several of which would suggest that it wouldn't stand up to scrutiny. See here, here and here. Kosack (talk) 20:52, 28 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I contacted Robert Mamrud of RSSSF, and he said that he will update the records page on December and will also add a personal page for Maatouk listing all the matches he played, the goals he scored and detailed statistics. Until then NFT is the only solution, albeit temporary. Nehme1499 (talk) 23:27, 28 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@Giants2008, @Dey subrata, the RSSSF page for Maatouk's statistics has just been released. As such, I have removed all NFT sources and replaced them with the RSSSF page, listing all the individual caps and goals of the player. Is the article now deemed suitable for FL? Nehme1499 (talk) 16:25, 10 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, I know. Sorry, I have forgotten about it to inform you. Anyway, its seems ok to me now. Dey subrata (talk) 16:29, 10 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Source review –

  • What makes National Football Teams (reference 11) a reliable source?
I've replaced it with another source. Nehme1499 (talk) 00:05, 19 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • References 7 and 14 appear to be in a non-English language, which should be mentioned in the citation (as is done in ref 4).
 Done Nehme1499 (talk) 00:05, 19 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Refs 9, 14, 16 and 19 are to print publications, which means their publishers should be italicized.
When I try to italicize them, an error message comes up stating: "Italic or bold markup not allowed in: |publisher=". Nehme1499 (talk) 00:05, 19 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Use the work= or newspaper= parameters instead of publisher. Either of those will give you italics without the ugly error message. Giants2008 (Talk) 17:03, 21 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@Giants2008:  Done Nehme1499 (talk) 17:48, 21 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • The link-checker tool only worked on a few of the references for some reason, but for those it showed no issues. Giants2008 (Talk) 22:22, 18 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@Giants2008: I should have taken care of your concerns. Nehme1499 (talk) 00:05, 19 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • The last of my comments has been resolved, so I'd say the source review has been passed. Giants2008 (Talk) 23:15, 22 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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