Wikipedia:Featured list candidates/NBA All-Rookie Team

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was promoted by User:Matthewedwards 05:44, 4 October 2008 [1].

NBA All-Rookie Team[edit]

I am nominating this article with Chrishomingtang for featured list nomination as we both believe that this article is ready for this promotion. -- K. Annoyomous24[c] 19:55, 13 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Resolved comments from SRX
  • Comments from SRX
    • Lead
      • The NBA All-Rookie Team is an annual National Basketball Association (NBA) honor given since the 1962–63 NBA season to the best rookies during the regular season. - best? What makes them the best?
Replaced by the word "top." The honor is determined by voting.—Chris! ct 22:43, 13 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
      • The All-Defensive Team is generally composed of two five-man lineups, a first team and a second team. - what is the All Defensive team?
Fixed—Chris! ct 22:43, 13 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
    • Overall
      • Looks good meets the FL Criteria besides the flaws I pointed out above.

--SRX 22:31, 13 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

    • Further comments
      • Lead
        • No respect is given to positions. ?
          • Gave an example. -- K. Annoyomous24[c] 04:15, 14 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
            • That is still confusing, what are you trying to say, that positions don't matter in the process?--SRX 14:02, 14 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
              • Yes, that is what we're trying to say. -- K. Annoyomous24[c] 18:25, 14 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
                • Then you should straight forward say that.--SRX 19:18, 14 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
                  • If you haven't noticed, No respect means the same thing as don't matter. -- K. Annoyomous24[c] 19:30, 14 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
        • There are No images, would benefit by having one.
No room for image.—Chris! ct 18:56, 14 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
          • In the infobox?--SRX 19:18, 14 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
That is a navbox, not an infobox.—Chris! ct 00:25, 15 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
SRX 22:58, 13 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment My comments have been resolved but one, which is cr 6, no images.--SRX 21:47, 22 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Can you suggest an image to even add on this list? I really can't think of any image you can put up. -- K. Annoyomous24[c] 22:56, 22 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
An image of one of the recipients (a major one). Or upload a logo under FUR.--SRX 02:24, 23 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
So you want me to put just one picture of just one honoree? Or upload what logo under FUR? -- K. Annoyomous24[c] 02:55, 23 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, ONE. A logo, of the NBA All Rookie Team, if there is one.--SRX 20:18, 23 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
There is no logo for the NBA All-Rookie Team. -- K. Annoyomous24[c] 23:14, 23 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Then an image of a recipient.--SRX 02:37, 25 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Look below SatyrTN's last comment. -- K. Annoyomous24[c] 04:33, 26 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I see, it seems like s/he also agrees for the addition of an image. One image of a recipient will not hurt, is there a way to squeeze it in the lead? Make the table smaller? Or add it in the key section, a small one.--SRX 13:05, 26 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Weak Support - original comments resolved but there is still no image.--SRX 01:50, 30 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Cr. 6: can you rob from the First-team "Nationality" column to make the other nationality column wider?
No, because some country names on the left "Nationality" column are longer.—Chris! ct 19:27, 16 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • first-team vote, et al.
Hope I did it right...just make sure. -- K. Annoyomous24[c] 18:08, 16 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I undid it because the NBA doesn't put hyphen between "first team" or "second team." See [2].
  • Comma after 2007, perhaps?
DONE! -- K. Annoyomous24[c] 18:08, 16 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Respect" is not quite the word.
Then what word do you prefer? -- K. Annoyomous24[c] 18:08, 16 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • MOS breach: "currently" is a dangerous word. "As of 2008", unlinked please.
I linked the season. Hope it won't be a problem. -- K. Annoyomous24[c] 18:08, 16 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Inconsistent case for "second team". I'd minimise caps.
Currently, I'm at school doing this, so I don't have time to do that. -- K. Annoyomous24[c] 18:08, 16 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Done—Chris! ct 19:26, 16 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Tony (talk) 08:29, 16 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

OK. Tony (talk) 12:23, 22 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
What you do mean by OK? Does it mean you support, or are you answering the last question? -- K. Annoyomous24[c] 18:19, 22 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
FYI, Tony rarely supports, so an "OK" is a sign that all his concerns have been met. sephiroth bcr (converse) 07:43, 25 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Comments - sources look okay, links checked out with the link checker tool. Ealdgyth - Talk 13:30, 18 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

SatyrTN comments
  • MOS:FLAG suggests that the nationality flags should be removed.
May you be more specific since I don't see anywhere on WP:MOS that the flags should be removed from ths article. -- K. Annoyomous24[c] 00:08, 25 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Well, if you read the second point "Flag icons may be appropriate as a visual navigational aid in tables, infoboxes or lists provided that citizenship, nationality or jurisdiction is intimately tied to the topic at hand", you will see that these flags are appropriate.—Chris! ct 00:53, 25 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
So the citizenship of the player is intimately tied to their place on the NBA All-Rookie Team? I don't think so. Their nationality has nothing to do with being on the team. -- SatyrTN (talk / contribs) 03:29, 25 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Lets just wait for User:Chrishomingtang's reply as he is currently unblocked for less than 24 hours. -- K. Annoyomous24[c] 19:12, 25 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • The "Selections" header is redundant
Sorry, I only have an intermediate understanding of English. -- K. Annoyomous24[c] 00:08, 25 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
The current row at the top of the table that says "Selections" doesn't need to be there - it doesn't add anything. -- SatyrTN (talk / contribs) 14:20, 25 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Lets just wait for User:Chrishomingtang's reply as he is currently unblocked for less than 24 hours. -- K. Annoyomous24[c] 19:12, 25 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Done —Chris! ct 18:44, 26 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • The headers "Players" and "Teams" should probably be singular - each row is a player, each player is on one team.
But ithe article is called, NBA All-Rookie Team, not NBA All-Rookie Team selections. -- K. Annoyomous24[c] 00:08, 25 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
The title of the article has nothing to do with it. The table lists players and information about them - each "Player" (singular) and their "Team" (singular) when they are on the All-Rookie team. -- SatyrTN (talk / contribs) 14:20, 25 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Lets just wait for User:Chrishomingtang's reply as he is currently unblocked for less than 24 hours. -- K. Annoyomous24[c] 19:12, 25 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Not done The reason is that each year's teams consist of more than one players, so it would make no sense for those words to be singular.—Chris! ct 18:44, 26 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Bob Lanier (1970-71) - Detroit Pistons isn't linked.
DONE! -- K. Annoyomous24[c] 00:08, 25 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Now that I think of it, I'm wondering about over-linking. Seems like "United States" doesn't need to be linked throughout the table, and that you could probably save a *lot* of room by indicating "(USA)" by the player's name instead of "FLAG United States" in a separate column. And linking every instance of "Boston Celtics" seems redundant and over-linky. That being said, if you linked to each season (as in [[1972–73 Boston Celtics season|Boston Celtics]]), that would probably be good.
Why would you link the team to the player's team season of that year? -- K. Annoyomous24[c] 00:08, 25 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
To see who else was on their team that year. But I could be wrong. But I *know* that overlinking Boston Celtics doesn't work for a Featured List. -- SatyrTN (talk / contribs) 03:29, 25 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
But you're wrong according to SRX on Wikipedia:Featured list candidates/All-NBA Team/archive2, he said , "Well citing WP:OVERLINK The same link multiple times. Redundant links make future maintenance harder. A link that had last appeared much earlier in the article may be repeated, but generally not in the the same section. (Table entries are an exception to this; each row of a table should be able to stand on its own). So you can do what you want, but tables are the exceptions." You should really read these things carefully. -- K. Annoyomous24[c] 05:20, 25 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Please - you're close to attacking with comments about *me* instead of about *the content*. My point is that every row of the table has a team that is wikilinked to the same place - that's the absolute definition of overlinking, and I would disagree with . I've given you two options - link to the specific year for that team (ie 1967-68 Boston Celtics season) or remove the links for all the teams. The way it is doesn't make sense. The substance of WP:OVERLINK says "Avoid obvious, redundant, and useless links" - IMO, these are redundant (which means repeated several times unnecessarily). -- SatyrTN (talk / contribs) 14:20, 25 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Lets just wait for User:Chrishomingtang's reply as he is currently unblocked for less than 24 hours. -- K. Annoyomous24[c] 19:12, 25 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
But table is an exception to WP:OVERLINK. In "What generally should not be linked" section, bullet 4: The same link multiple times. Redundant links make future maintenance harder. A link that had last appeared much earlier in the article may be repeated, but generally not in the the same section. (Table entries are an exception to this; each row of a table should be able to stand on its own). If you disagree with that, I guess you will have bring that to the talk page of WP:OVERLINK.—Chris! ct 18:38, 26 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • I concur with the need for a picture or logo.
1. NO LOGO FOR THE NBA ALL-ROOKIE TEAM 2. Are you seriously suggesting me to put a random picture of a random honoree? -- K. Annoyomous24[c] 00:08, 25 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

-- SatyrTN (talk / contribs) 18:43, 24 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I didn't say that was necessary, though the pictures of some of the more well-known people on the list might be appropriate. Are there team photos? Or *anything* to add a picture to the article? It's quite barren without. Just my opinion... -- SatyrTN (talk / contribs) 03:29, 25 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
But you can only put one picture in the article as the table is too big. Putting one more well-known person is redundant (I don't know what that means, but sound cool). No team photos. If you can find a picture that I can possibly put on, then I'll maybe consider. -- K. Annoyomous24[c] 05:20, 25 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
All I'm saying is Wikipedia:Featured list criteria #6 - "it has images if they are appropriate to the subject". Is there nothing available? -- SatyrTN (talk / contribs) 14:20, 25 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I'm for sure that there are no images that are appropriate to the subject. -- K. Annoyomous24[c] 19:12, 25 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Comments

  • I too question the use of Flags, and even the entire Nationality column. What does it do to enhance the understanding the scope of the list? Including it makes the table extremely wide. I'm lucky I have a large widescreen monitor. I'd hate to think what it looked like on a normal 19" screen
I have a 19" monitor and it's fine. Lets just wait for User:Chrishomingtang's reply as he is currently unblocked for less than 12 hours. -- K. Annoyomous24[c] 07:45, 26 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • What does the name "Kareem Abdul-Jabbar" have to do with this list? Seems like trivia here -- it might fare better at his actual article
His name was Lew Alcindo, but was changed to what most people know him as Kareem Abdul Jabbar. Just in case some readers don't know who's Lew Alcindor, but knows areem Abdul-Jabbar. -- K. Annoyomous24[c] 07:45, 26 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
OK, then what does the meaning of his name have to do with it? Matthewedwards (talk • contribs • email) 08:17, 26 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Tim Duncan is ... eligible to play for the U.S. internationally." -- Again, wrt this list, so? Etc, etc
We put the nationality of the VIR, but Duncan plays for the U.S. internationally. -- K. Annoyomous24[c] 07:46, 26 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
VIR? Still, what does his nationality have to do with him becoming part of the All-Rookie Team? Matthewedwards (talk • contribs • email) 08:17, 26 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • While an image would be good, it isn't mandatory. Does the All-Rookie Team have a logo? If so it might be worth adding.
For the last time, there is no such thing as a logo for the NBA All-Rookie Team. -- K. Annoyomous24[c] 07:45, 26 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Matthewedwards (talk • contribs • email) 07:19, 26 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Since several people has commented about the flag or the nationality in different places, I will address this here again. Because of the numbers of foreign players, the nationality column and the flags can provided additional info to the readers. BTW MOS:FLAG allows the use of flags on table. —Chris! ct 18:32, 26 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Their nationality can be found by clicking on each individual's own article. While of different nations, their nationality had nothing to do with their selection on the Team (or at least the article doesn't say it does). Again, what does knowing their nationalities do to aid the reader in the understanding of the topic? I have left a message on the talk page of MOS:FLAGS and asked someone involved with the guideline to come here and comment. Matthewedwards (talk • contribs • email) 06:19, 30 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
If this was only my nomination, I would change it automatically. Since this is a co-nomination, I am for sure that Chrishomintang will appeal like usual. -- K. Annoyomous24[c] 06:24, 30 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I don't believe this is the type of table the MOS is intended for their is plenty of space for full country names. I'd suggest a removing of the flags and converting the table to sortable table. Gnevin (talk) 17:46, 30 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I don't understand. What is the big deal if there are flags in the table? I don't mean to offend anyone but it seems to me that many FLC reviewers dislike flags and like to pick on them. I guess that if I want this to pass, I will have to remove the flags.—Chris! ct 18:42, 30 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
One user told me (I forgot who) told me that adding the nationality will make the list more bigger instead of one thin list. If this is about showing the flags, I think this is ridiculous, but we have to follow MOS:FLAGS and remove the flags. -- K. Annoyomous24[c] 18:52, 30 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
DONE.—Chris! ct 20:09, 30 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
WP:BEBOLD, {{sofixit}} Matthewedwards (talk • contribs • email) 20:11, 30 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I also added some images. Hopefully everyone is satisfied.—Chris! ct 21:03, 30 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Comment Not an actionable comment towards this list, but now that you've removed the flags in this list, you probably should remove the flags from the other awards lists for consistency. Dabomb87 (talk) 03:16, 1 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

  • Support I read through the prose and examined the table, and see nothing of concern. Well done. –Juliancolton Tropical Cyclone 17:18, 2 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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