Wikipedia:Help desk/Archives/2008 November 5

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November 5

Tagging images

In the article fictitious force, several gif diagrams have been added recently. I found that they are incorrectly depicting fictitious forces. Although the discrepancies are subtle, they end up conveying the wrong concept. I have posted this on Talk:Fictitious_force#Possible_errors. But how do I tag the individual images to get the attention of the creator or Wikipedia editors? Help will be appreciated. --Fatka (talk) 01:10, 5 November 2008 (UTC)

Over-referencing

What are the general guidelines on over-referencing? Is it okay to cite up to 6 references for a statement which is controversial, and is likely to be challenged by large organizations? ←Spidern→ 03:41, 5 November 2008 (UTC)

Quantity does not trump quality. You can use 6 references from not-so-respected websites. That doesn't make the statement valid. Having 1 reference from a respected website does make it valid (in Wikipedia's view). Also note that it is common for one website to make a false statement and others to pick it up. So, you need to ensure that the extra references are valid. For an example, see Nude Bowl. There are dozens of sites that claim the name comes from it once being a nudist colony - but they are mostly blogs and such. It would be pointless to have 30 references when having a couple respectable references does the job nicely. -- kainaw™ 03:50, 5 November 2008 (UTC)

I agree with every proviso kainaw wrote. However, there are places where multiple reliable references for a controversial statement are warranted and even necessary. An example is where you are attempting in include a statement in an article that immediately appears to be POV in the absence of multiple cites. For example if you are going to say that someone is "widely considered one of the greatest _____ of all time" (see e.g., Jean Balukas).--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 04:09, 5 November 2008 (UTC)

Of course, phrases like "widely considered to be..." should be avoided and replaced with "considered by _____ to be...". The second form makes it clear who is making the consideration as there are no "widelies" making comments about anything. -- kainaw™ 04:15, 5 November 2008 (UTC)

Where the blank in your example is "all people who know the subject area," the original phraseology is warranted.--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 04:29, 5 November 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for your responses. For the record, the page in question is Scientology, three paragraphs down. If you have any context-specific comments on the situation, this is a good time to make them. ←Spidern→ 04:41, 5 November 2008 (UTC)

Hauntings

How can Wikipedia address haunted sites and legends? Grsz^{11 →Review!} 05:35, 5 November 2008 (UTC)

By having articles on the notable ones. Zain Ebrahim (talk) 08:46, 5 November 2008 (UTC)

Would you be willing to check out the section at Livermore, Pennsylvania and let me know if it's okay? Thanks, Grsz^{11 →Review!} 14:48, 5 November 2008 (UTC)

I haven't check whether the sources are reliable but if they are, I think that section is okay. Zain Ebrahim (talk) 17:20, 6 November 2008 (UTC)

Umm...

Why do people who have been blocked for a long time, rarely edit once they are unblocked? 121.219.2.201 (talk) 06:08, 5 November 2008 (UTC)

Well, hopefully they've created new accounts and are now contributing constructively. Zain Ebrahim (talk) 08:44, 5 November 2008 (UTC)

Or have gone away and quit bothering us. Algebraist 11:40, 5 November 2008 (UTC)

images

Hi, i tried to put a picture on my page but i couldn't.How do I?--Elementwaldron (talk) 07:03, 5 November 2008 (UTC)

• Did you read Wikipedia:Picture tutorial? - 131.211.151.64 (talk) 07:54, 5 November 2008 (UTC)

It appears that you included a link to a picture, instead of the picture itself. To upload pictures, your account must be four days old and you must make at least ten edits. Cheers! TN‑X-Man 14:58, 5 November 2008 (UTC)

Running/Downloading exe batch file from article

I would like to add an executable batch file to my article that uses another 3 files to run. How do I add these files so that the reader can click on a link and either run the exe file within my article, or else download all the 4 files to his own computer and then run the exe file? —Preceding unsigned comment added by SSDrocks (talk • contribs) 07:50, 5 November 2008 (UTC)

• Since executable files are prone to virus infection, you cannot add such files to an article. The best thing you can do is link to a download site where people can look at the files and choose to download them. Don't point to them directly. - 131.211.151.64 (talk) 07:53, 5 November 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for your super fast reply! —Preceding unsigned comment added by SSDrocks (talk • contribs) 08:28, 5 November 2008 (UTC)

Assuming all readers use the most commonly used OS is not very wise, IMHO. Probably a web-based or platform independent attachment will be a better solution. Fatka (talk · contribs) 18:54, 5 November 2008 (UTC)

Hi

I was wondering. Should Barack Obama make reference to the fact that some people call him Barack Osama? Also what do you need 6m bucks for? Thank you please. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.75.137.156 (talk) 11:00, 5 November 2008 (UTC)

This page is for questions about using Wikipedia. Please consider asking this question at the Wikipedia:Reference desk. They specialize in knowledge questions and will try to answer any question in the universe (except how to use Wikipedia, since that is what this Help Desk is for). Just follow the link, select the relevant section, and ask away. You could always try searching Wikipedia for an article related to the topic you want to know more about. I hope this helps. Chamal ^talk 11:08, 5 November 2008 (UTC)

Nope u've been of absolutely no help at all. nm, dont give up the day job! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.75.137.156 (talk) 11:16, 5 November 2008 (UTC)

Well, you can't expect your every question to be answered at the help desk can you? As I said, you'll have better luck at the reference desk. That's why there are two places; one for help on Wikipedia and one for other questions. Chamal ^talk 11:23, 5 November 2008 (UTC)

Questions regarding financial support to the Wikimedia Foundation are addressed here. Your question about Barack Obama is also inappropriate for the Reference Desk. Zain Ebrahim (talk) 11:29, 5 November 2008 (UTC)

Raise your first question at Talk:Barack Obama. —Tamfang (talk) 17:03, 5 November 2008 (UTC)

Deleted article

I published an article about Telenor Cinclus, a Norwegian-based company, this morning and after just a couple of minutes it was deleted with the comment "blatant advertisement". I don't quite agree and I can't see how it differs from many other articles about companies. But of course I would like to edit the article so it's not perceived as advertisement anymore - it was never meant to be. How do I do? Can I just publish a revised version of the article? Thanks in advance.—Preceding unsigned comment added by EriKarl (talk • contribs)

Short answer: yes. Please take a look at WP:CORP and make sure it meets our notability guidelines for companies. Wikipedia:Avoid peacock terms may help you to write an article that doesn't appear to the majority of our editors as advertisement. Darkspots (talk) 11:39, 5 November 2008 (UTC)

There is already an article on Telenor. —teb728 t c 12:08, 5 November 2008 (UTC)

Need Guidance re Vandalism

I am new to wiki. In an article I am following, an editor, who, perhaps, recently had drunk too much wine, added comments in Discussions which are, to say the least, inappropriate. Does Wikipedia's management (including its monitors) have any role in what does or should happen next? The only Wipipedia "rule" I have found so far on this topic is below, but it seems to say that we are on our own and that Wikipedia declines any proactive role. Please let me know how all of this is supposed to work out in actual practice. In addition, please let me know why a robot has tagged this insert as presumptive vandalism merely because it requests guidance about vandalism. Thanks.

"How to respond to vandalism. If you see vandalism in an article, the simplest thing to do is just to remove it. But take care! Sometimes vandalism takes place on top of older, undetected vandalism, sometimes other editors make edits without realizing the vandalism occurred, and sometimes bots try to fix collateral damage and accidentally make things worse. Check the edit history to make sure you're reverting to a 'clean' version of the page, or if you can't tell where the best place is, take your best guess and leave a note on the article's talk page so that someone more familiar with the page can address the issue. If you see vandalism on a list of changes (such as your watchlist), then revert it immediately. You may use the "undo" button (and the automatic edit summary it generates), and mark the change as minor. It may be helpful to check the page history to determine whether other recent edits by the same or other editors also represent vandalism. Repair all vandalism you can identify.For a new article, if all versions of the article are pure vandalism, mark it for speedy deletion by tagging it with {{Db-g3}}. To make vandalism reverts easier, you can ask for the rollback feature to be enabled for your registered Wikipedia account. Intended for use only for reverting vandalism and other obvious disruption, this will enable you to revert recent edits with a single click. See Wikipedia:Requests for permissions‎.

Having identified a user as committing vandalism, you may also check the user's other contributions (click "User contributions" on the left sidebar of the screen). If most or all of these are obvious vandalism, you may decide to report the user immediately. Otherwise you may leave an appropriate warning message on the user's talk page. If a user continues to cause disruption after being warned, report that user at Wikipedia:Administrator intervention against vandalism. An administrator will decide whether to block the user."—Preceding unsigned comment added by Stwiso (talk • contribs) TN‑X-Man 12:45, 5 November 2008 (UTC)

I am posting this question from Talk: Help Desk. TN‑X-Man 12:44, 5 November 2008 (UTC)

Wikipedia does not really pre-emptively act on vandalism. A user may be blocked if there is evidence that all/most of their edits are vandalism. If you think an account is only being used for vandalism, you can report them at this noticeboard. If a user has only made one or two bad edits, drop them a line on their talk page. Maybe they're just confused on how Wikipedia works. If you have any other questions, please let us know. Cheers! TN‑X-Man 13:55, 5 November 2008 (UTC)

IP address check for admins

Hi, I have an own mediawiki. How does IP check work? With other words, as an admin, how can I find out, if user abc at 4:02 pm what IP adress used? Google did not help at all so far. Thanks. --Muki123 (talk) 12:53, 5 November 2008 (UTC)

The Help Desk is intended for specific help with Wikipedia, rather than MediaWiki - if you want help in the future, you'd be better off looking here. Anyway, to answer your question, that functionality doesn't exist in MediaWiki by default. You'll need to install the CheckUser extension, after which you can find which IP addresses have been used by a specific username, or vice versa. Hope this helps. :) --saxsux (talk) 14:15, 5 November 2008 (UTC)

• Of course, you'd need to give yourself checkuser rights after you've done so to be able to use the extension. - 131.211.151.64 (talk) 15:29, 5 November 2008 (UTC)

Thanks!--Muki123 (talk) 16:06, 5 November 2008 (UTC)

Searching for article

How come when I search for the article I posted, it does not show up?

Djproducts (talk) 17:54, 5 November 2008 (UTC)

You can check your contributions list to see all the edits you have made. Simply click the "my contributions" tab at the top of the page. --Jayron32.talk.contribs 18:00, 5 November 2008 (UTC)

Note- This account was blocked five minutes after this post as a promotional account. TN‑X-Man 18:02, 5 November 2008 (UTC)

Well, that may have been a little harsh. What happened to WP:AGF? This might be nothing more than a new user who hasn't read any of Wikipedia's friendly manuals yet, and made a well-meaning mistake. Note to User:Djproducts: you should read our business FAQ carefully before doing anything else on Wikipedia. More than likely, someone who buys a product from DJ Products will need to get some training before trying to use the product. Wikipedia is similar in that a person cannot just guess how to use it, one has to read our manuals and understand Wikipedia's complex and unobvious rules. --Teratornis (talk) 18:08, 5 November 2008 (UTC)

It may have indeed been harsh, but I'm not familiar with the details. The blocking admin may have more info on what was going on. Cheers! TN‑X-Man 18:28, 5 November 2008 (UTC)

He would have been blocked on the user name policy anyway: you can't use a company name as a user name. --—— Gadget850 (Ed) ^talk - 21:28, 5 November 2008 (UTC)

Yes, that is true. But a block seems contrary to User:Jimbo Wales/Statement of principles: "Newcomers are always to be welcomed," when we don't know that the user meant any harm. I'd think a more welcoming solution would be to contact the user and arrange to rename the account, although we probably aren't set up to handle that conveniently, so we use the rubber mallet welcome method. --Teratornis (talk) 07:39, 6 November 2008 (UTC)

How do I make a wiki version

In the guiness world record book 2008(c) it says there are 250 wikipedias, how do I make one!!!!!!!!!!!! BY:Jordan

• Suggest one at http://meta.wikimedia.org but it's not all that easy. For a new Wikipedia edition to be set up, you need to show that there's enough interest in it and no problems and we only get different editions for different languages. All the major ones are already represented. A better bet would be to set up a new version of another wiki project that's a lot younger. - Mgm|^(talk) 20:51, 5 November 2008 (UTC)
• Based on the title of your question, I'm also guessing you're making the mistake of mixing up wiki and Wikipedia. Wikipedia is a special type of wiki. Wiki is the general name to describe this sort of publically editable website. - Mgm|^(talk) 20:52, 5 November 2008 (UTC)

Following on from Mgm's response, if you want to set up your own wiki (not Wikipedia) there are a number of different ways to go about it. The software that powers Wikipedia, known as MediaWiki, is freely available, and is fairly easy to install if you have a web hosting account or server with PHP and a MySQL or PostgreSQL database. There are also plenty of other wiki software packages, if you'd prefer something other then MediaWiki. And if you don't have much technical knowledge or a webhosting account, you can always set up a wiki with a provider; Wikia, for example. --saxsux (talk) 16:11, 6 November 2008 (UTC)

copy/paste ogg theora files

I have tried in vain to copy and paste or drag and drop the ogg theora file but, I can find no way to copy/paste these files. Can you help me with this issue.

• Where is the file and where do you want it to go? =- Mgm|^(talk) 20:53, 5 November 2008 (UTC)

The ogg theora file is topsy.ogg, it's Topsy the Elephant, it has it's own webpage. I am trying to copy it to HP Image Zone. I can't copy and paste any of these ogg files. These are the only files I've run into that I can't copy paste, can't drag and drop. It will not allow any right click command to do anything with it. Thank You

"Donate now" button

Could someone please make it disappear on all Wikipedias? It's freaking annoying. BTW I always donated to WP in past fundraisers but it's a principle of mine never to respond to ads that are so up in my face... – Alensha ^talk 20:59, 5 November 2008 (UTC)

Special:Preferences → Gadgets → Suppress display of the fundraiser site notice. --—— Gadget850 (Ed) ^talk - 21:21, 5 November 2008 (UTC)

I'm surprised the notice isn't in the wasted space in the left sidebar below the toolbox. It would still be visible, but not competing with the edit box for scarce vertical space. Most computer displays are wider than they are tall, so banner ads are more annoying than sidebar ads. --Teratornis (talk) 07:42, 6 November 2008 (UTC)

I copied the gadget stuff to Hungarian wikipedia where I'd need it, but it still doesn't work... – Alensha ^talk 15:30, 9 November 2008 (UTC)

How to bring the recent changes to the main page of wiki?

206.213.170.10 (talk) 22:51, 6 November 2008 (UTC)

=='Special:Recentchanges'== along with curly braces. This shows the contents from recent changes.

is there way by which i can show the group of recent changes in main page?

Many Thanks in advance.

This Help desk is for questions about using Wikipedia. mw:Project:Support desk is for questions about administering your own MediaWiki wiki. Your question is also somewhat vague; the Main Page on Wikipedia does not show all the recent updates to Wikipedia, but rather only a tiny sample of them. If you want to customize your wiki, read all the links under WP:EIW#MediaWiki, especially mw:Manual:FAQ. --Teratornis (talk) 07:48, 6 November 2008 (UTC)

Hello, Many thaks for this.

• I will go through the link you have mentioned. Mean while how can i show tiny sample of updates on main page of the wiki?
• Is there any possibility of doing the sorting while displayig the recent updates on main page? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Kamsy (talk • contribs) 15:17, 6 November 2008 (UTC)

Again, this Help Desk is for questions about using Wikipedia. You can ask your question about your own wiki at mw:Project:Support desk. _Gb^T/c 15:26, 6 November 2008 (UTC)

NTOC

206.213.170.10 (talk) 22:51, 6 November 2008 (UTC) What did I do wrong here? Assuming you agree NTOC is a good idea, here, can someone fix? AndyJones (talk) 21:15, 5 November 2008 (UTC)

You missed by one letter. The appropriate code is __NOTOC__ not __NTOC__. I have corrected it for you. Cheers! TN‑X-Man 21:17, 5 November 2008 (UTC)

same answer as last year: Wikipedia:Help_desk/Archives/2007_November_10#NTOC.3F.3F.3F Sssoul (talk) 21:19, 5 November 2008 (UTC)

Thank you. My question last time too! I'll go and hang my head in shame. AndyJones (talk) 21:22, 5 November 2008 (UTC)

== ogg theora file ==206.213.170.10 (talk) 22:51, 6 November 2008 (UTC)

I have tried in vain to copy and paste or drag and drop the ogg theora file but, I can find no way to copy/paste these files. Can you help me with this issue.

Where is the file and where do you want it to go? =- Mgm|(talk) 20:53, 5 November 2008 (UTC)

The ogg theora file is topsy.ogg, it's Topsy the Elephant, it has it's own webpage. I am trying to copy it to HP Image Zone. I can't copy and paste any of these ogg files. These are the only files I've run into that I can't copy paste, drag and drop, or get any right click command to do anything with it, I can only copy the mpeg file of the shot on screen, not the video file. Thank You

• You should right-click the blue link underneath the video and click "save file as" or whatever phrase your operating system uses, to copy the file to your harddrive. From there you can try copying it elsewhere. Anyway, I don't know HP Image Zone, but you probably end up making screenshots, because I don't think they allow video uploads based on the name "Image". - Mgm|^(talk) 23:02, 5 November 2008 (UTC)

Thank you very much for your time206.213.170.10 (talk) 22:51, 6 November 2008 (UTC) Dennis

In Album, creating a band section?

Hi

I've bin looking for lots of music albums lately on Wikipedia for different kind of informations. I've never edited a topic or post some information here, so i don't know how you've define the standard to use. So i guess perhaps my suggestion here would be appropriate.

Would it be possible to create a section in the "albums window" that shows whos the band... I mean for exemple, Gwen Stefani album, we all know her as the singer, but whos playing guitar for exemple... i have no idea...

I can find the type of music, the writers (sometimes), even the producer and the background crew, but it's not usual to find the crew member and what they do in the particular album/song.

I mean if someones knows enought to write down the producer, i think he or she should have enought knowledge to write down each person in the band...

That would be my suggestion.

Thank you.

• The formatted box commonly added to the top of articles are called infoboxes. I think the reason band members aren't included is because it can be far too lengthy in a lot of cases. If it is known such information is commonly included in the article text itself or the article on the band. - Mgm|^(talk) 23:15, 5 November 2008 (UTC)

== New Widget ==206.213.170.10 (talk) 22:51, 6 November 2008 (UTC)

I'd like to suggest a widget or something that could prevent anyone besides the user from editing/creating said user's userpage(s) besides the User Talk page. --Melab^±1 23:00, 5 November 2008 (UTC)

• Since Wikipedia is an open project, we tend not to lock anyone out of pages unless it's really necessary (for example cases of heavy vandalism). We can already protect pages from being edited by non-administrators and if we have to, we can build bots to revert any authorized changes, but right now, we just don't need to. Any specific reason you are suggesting this? - Mgm|^(talk) 23:06, 5 November 2008 (UTC)

A little while ago it was proposed that we semiprotect userpages. Past discussion here. Algebraist 23:14, 5 November 2008 (UTC)

Why are our external links being deleted?

Hello,

I have noticed that all the external links that I have added to certain persons, that have been interviewed on The Kathleen Show, have been deleted. I realize that you may think we add them to get people to visit our website, the real reason is that the external links I add are to very good interviews and guest pages, with pictures and information about these persons. Kathleen is an award winning filmmaker and health advocate and interviews many interesting people. As a matter of fact, WE use/visit Wikipedia ALL THE TIME to get insightful info about our upcoming guests and topics and MANY times, the most insightful components are the external links to external interviews...which provides greater perspective on the person/topic as a whole. Due to this and the fact that the goals of our own interviews are to glean a unique/interesting/provocative point of view from the guest about their career or the topic, we think that the interviews from our show ultimately give WIKI searchers a rich and valuable resource about the person/topic being discussed.

Don't believe us? Take a listen to any one of the interviews we have added to Wiki in the past: Dave Ramsey, Jean Chatzky, Rodney Yee, Elliot Scheiner, etc. If you listen, you will HEAR what a great resource we provide searchers about these people. I think any searcher would agree that the interview links we provide are VALUABLE information. Why are our show interviews blocked, but not shows like Larry King, NBC, CBS and a whole variety of other television, radio, and print interviews? How do you suggest our interviews can stay a valuable addition to the relatively small percentage of WIKI people/topics we overlap on? Any help you can give us to remedy the above would be appreciated.

Many thanks, Danishroots (talk) 23:12, 5 November 2008 (UTC)

• They were probably removed because it looks like you're advertising the show. Instead, you could try to find interesting facts in the interview that are not yet in the article and add those to the article and THEN add the link as a reference. That's the way most interviews are used. In cases where interviews have been added as external links the people working on the article discussed it and agreed it was a useful link to keep. We can only keep a limited amount of links. If we were to add links to everything abuot a specific person, it would get messy in the external links section. - Mgm|^(talk) 23:22, 5 November 2008 (UTC)

• WP:EL clearly mentions conflicts of interest when linking.

You should avoid linking to a website that you own, maintain or represent, even if the guidelines otherwise imply that it should be linked. If the link is to a relevant and informative site that should otherwise be included, please consider mentioning it on the talk page and let neutral and independent Wikipedia editors decide whether to add it. This is in line with the conflict of interest guidelines.

Post to article talk pages and allow other editors to decide if your links are worth including. --GraemeL ^(talk) 23:28, 5 November 2008 (UTC)

• Keep in mind, as well, that the removal of the links should not be interpreted as a comment on the interviews themselves. As stated above, we cannot list every interview, link, or clip relating to a subject. If you feel that one of your interviews can be used as a reference for new or existing text, bring it up on the talk page and see if other editors agree. However, this would have to be assessed on a case-by-case basis. --Ckatz^chat_spy 23:36, 5 November 2008 (UTC)

Peruse some randomly selected featured articles on Wikipedia. (Featured articles have earned the highest quality ranking from the Wikipedia community of all our articles.) Most of them have lots of footnotes, but comparatively small sections of external links. One way to think of the external links section of an article is as a temporary holding area for links that we haven't edited into footnotes yet. As articles progress toward featured status, they should have progressively fewer external links. To learn about making footnotes, see WP:FOOT, WP:CITE, WP:CITET, and WP:RS. Properly formatted footnotes are less likely to get deleted from Wikipedia than bare external links, but of course footnotes are subject to all the same limitations on what we can link to. Also, the name of this wiki is not "Wiki", but "Wikipedia". There are thousands of wikis; the English Wikipedia is merely one of the most well-known. --Teratornis (talk) 07:32, 6 November 2008 (UTC)

Self-updating table

List of the verified oldest people updates itself automatically. Does anyone know how it does that? It doesn't appear to be maintained by a bot. Thanks Louis Waweru  Talk  23:25, 5 November 2008 (UTC)

Click "edit this page" to see how a page does something. It uses {{age in years and days}} and {{age in days nts}}. PrimeHunter (talk) 00:09, 6 November 2008 (UTC)

I see, I see...thank you. I was looking at the source earlier, but I only viewed it for the deceased. I guess it would only be used on the living. Louis Waweru  Talk  00:31, 6 November 2008 (UTC)