Wikipedia:Help desk/Archives/2012 August 24

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August 24

Joan Hinde

Tried to up-date references but when opening to edit, there is nothing there! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.149.10.195 (talk) 16:08, 24 August 2012 (UTC)

When you are reading an article and see a references section near the bottom populated by a series of numbered citations, you might think that if you edit the page, you will see those citations typed in that section and be able to edit them. However, normally what you will see is code similar to this:

     ==References==

   {{Reflist}} or <references/>

The text of citations is actually in the body of the article, directly next to statements or paragraphs the citations support, using <ref>(citation)</ref> tags, which display as footnotes (e.g.^[1][2]) when you are reading an article. The template code shown above in the references section colates and displays all of the citations within the article in a numbered list in which the numbers correspond to the footnote numbers in the text. By clicking on the ^ symbol next to a citation display, you can easily find exactly where in the body of the article the citation text appears in order to edit it. For more, please see Wikipedia:Referencing for beginners. -- Toshio Yamaguchi (tlk−ctb) 17:48, 24 August 2012 (UTC)

Ulrich W. Schiefer

Hello, my name is Maria. I wrote an article on Ulrich W. Schiefer. The first reviewer said I need to add relieable sources, so I did. However, the second reviewer said the same. Can you please help me and tell me what I need to do differently or what I need to do in the first place. The person I write about is already accepted in German Wikipedia, he has notabilty. What do I have to do? Shall I add different kinds of sources, and what kind? I have added articles that he wrote, for example. Do I need to add his business cards in order to prove that he has worked for all these companies I mention? The article is here: Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/Ulrich W. Schiefer

Here's the reviewers statement: This submission's references do not adequately evidence the subject's notability—see the guidelines on the notability of people and the golden rule. Please improve the submission's referencing, so that the information is verifiable, and there is clear evidence of why the subject is notable and worthy of inclusion in an encyclopedia.

Thanks, Maria Maria Konstantinidou (talk) 05:55, 24 August 2012 (UTC)

Right now you have four references. And three of them were written by the subject of the article. In order to demonstrate notability, someone else must have written about the subject. Anyone can have something published. Dismas|^(talk) 06:04, 24 August 2012 (UTC)

Please take a look at WP:RS for guidance as to what constitutes a reliable source.--ukexpat (talk) 14:02, 24 August 2012 (UTC)

Biased P.O.V.

I have found a blalantly biased statement in an article, but I don't know the proper way to fix it. I don't want to risk such a bold move as deleting, for fear that it might infringe policies.

What is the proper way to denounce this violation of standards to a reviewer/moderator/administrator?

Thanks in advance.

Denis Mattos 06:31, 24 August 2012 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Denismattos (talk • contribs)

Here are three possibilities:

• Be bold and remove or rewrite the text - just make sure that you give a clear edit summary so that other editors can understand your reasons. If another editor undoes your change, then begin a discussion on the talk page.
• Use a template such as {{POV-statement}} to draw attention to the biased statement, and use the talk page to explain your reasons for adding the template.
• As a more cautious alternative, post more details here and wait for comments. -- John of Reading (talk) 07:20, 24 August 2012 (UTC)

It would be easier to give a more precise answer if we knew which article you were referring to and which statement in said article. Dismas|^(talk) 07:29, 24 August 2012 (UTC)

I did not want to asume this was the correct place for indicating the article and the statement. I was lead to the article Baju Kurung from a personal conversation and found this among the text: "When they became more civilized with the adoption of Islam as their religion, the Malays slowly covered their bodies according to the tenets and teachings of Islam.".

I consider this statement to be deeply biased. It is not a neutral, neither universal, approach to assume Islamic religion "civilizes" anyone.

Thanks again,

Denis Mattos 10:07, 24 August 2012 (UTC)

I have rewritten that sentence in a more neutral way. Maproom (talk) 10:12, 24 August 2012 (UTC)

...and I have removed all three history paragraphs as a copyright violation. -- John of Reading (talk) 10:25, 24 August 2012 (UTC)

Article-on Rodney Ontong written by www.walesonline.co.uk/topicsrodneyontong

Please remove this article from Rodney Ontong Wikipedia (Mystery of missing refund after cricketer's sporting dinner was cancelled,)the article is detrimental to my reputation, as much of the article is unfounded.

Your urgent attention to the above would be greatly appreciated.

Yours sincerely Rodney Ontong — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.28.226.65 (talk) 08:26, 24 August 2012 (UTC)

Rodney Ontong (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

The Wikipedia page Rodney Ontong (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rodney_Ontong) does not mention this news article, and, as far as I can see, has never done so. If you are concerned about the content of the page at www.walesonline.co.uk then you should take it up there, perhaps using their "Contact us" link. Are there problems with the content of the Wikipedia page? -- John of Reading (talk) 08:39, 24 August 2012 (UTC)

I am suspicious of the above request.

One possibility is that Mr. Ontong, resenting the walesonline article, has misguidedly chosen to complain about it here. Another is that someone who dislikes Mr. Ontong (and maybe considers that he is due repayment for the dinner) has used this Help desk to impersonate him and draw attention to the walesonline article, in the hope that an editor will add a citation of it to the Rodney Ontong article. The latter seems to me somewhat more likely. (My view is that such a citation should not be added – it would be irrelevant to Mr. Ontong's career as a cricketer.) Maproom (talk) 14:40, 24 August 2012 (UTC)

The IP geolocates to Lisburn in Northern Ireland, as far as I am aware the real Mr Ontong is currently resident in or nearLondon, England. Roger (talk) 15:33, 24 August 2012 (UTC)

Two unrelated articles under the same URL

Hey, Up All Night (One Direction album) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

The link given above has articles for both the album Up All Night and information about the actor Bruce Willis one after another. With the actors information coming before the information about the album.

I had no idea how to report this, so im posting it here in the help desk.

Is there any way of reporting it? Manalgandhi (talk) 08:29, 24 August 2012 (UTC)

I've fixed it. I just looked up the article history (found by clicking the history link at the top of the article) and reverted it back to the last "good" version. And here at the Help Desk is a fine place to report small instances of vandalism like this. There is also WP:ANI for more serious cases. Dismas|^(talk) 08:41, 24 August 2012 (UTC)

here tis

hard to find somewhere to say thank you for all this wonderful information..thos — Preceding unsigned comment added by 111.220.211.106 (talk) 08:49, 24 August 2012 (UTC)

Thank you for your kind remark. It is good to know that the result of our work is appreciated. Maproom (talk) 14:47, 24 August 2012 (UTC)

Harriet Jessica Phoebe Bywater (Hetti), was born on the 10th September, 1994 in Reigate, Surrey

I have noted that when you first Google Hetti Bywater it still comes up that she was born on 13 October 1994 in Eastbourne. I have already tried to make the change to say that her birthday is actually 10th September 1994. But it still doesn't come up on the page. It is really annoying that people get the basic facts wrong. I'm fed up with reading lots of rubbbish about her. At least your site is trying to put down basic facts. But please get them right. The reason they often put down Eastbourne, is that the press in Eastbourne said that she was from there. But the press also said she was born in Wales and Hastings too. She did however attend Theatre School in Bexhill, Eastbourne and Brighton, East Sussex. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Cherryb2012 (talk • contribs) 08:58, 24 August 2012 (UTC)

What evidence do you have that the birthdate and place you claim is correct? Changes made without presenting any evidence will often be reverted, particularly in biographies of living persons which are subject to stricter rules than most other articles. (BTW the article concerned is Hetti Bywater.) Roger (talk) 09:51, 24 August 2012 (UTC)

Article about Dr. Neema Moraveji

Dear Wikipedia helpdesk, I am a long time user of your website, and has been a bible for me in finding articles or writeups on key people/ event/ places/ happenings. I am now in need of an Article on Dr. Amitava Moraveji, the Director of the Stanford Calming Technology Lab. Could you please help me with the same? Thanks. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.99.197.100 (talk) 11:38, 24 August 2012 (UTC)

Wikipedia dosn't have an article on Neema Moraveji but you can request one at Wikipedia:Requested articles, probably in the subcategory Wikipedia:Requested articles/Applied arts and sciences/Computer science, computing, and Internet#People (although Moraveji's work is interdisciplinary he seems to be a computer scientist by background). --Colapeninsula (talk) 11:59, 24 August 2012 (UTC)

Follow up question

Above at Wikipedia:Help desk#Single purpose RfA I asked about RfA because of a task I want to do. I want to work through Wikipedia:Database reports/Articles containing red-linked files/1 and remove those redlinks. Should I go ahead and simply do this? Is this considered a controversial task? Should I get a consensus for this first? -- Toshio Yamaguchi (tlk−ctb) 11:41, 24 August 2012 (UTC)

Some redlinks are topics we should have an article but don't have one yet; those should be left as redlinks to remind us to write it and so when it is written it will already be linked. Other redlinks are mispellings, those should be fixed. Then some redlinks are on things we have articles on with as different name, those can be piped to the article we do have. Finally there are some redlinks that really aren't a good thing to link and they should be delinked. It may be a matter of opinion on which category a particular redlink is in, but in general be WP:BOLD. RJFJR (talk) 13:25, 24 August 2012 (UTC)

As long as being bold doesn't make it harder for others to be bold. As noted at WP:REDLINK, redlinks serve an important function, and it isn't wise to unilaterally try to remove all redlinks from Wikipedia. --Jayron32 13:33, 24 August 2012 (UTC)

How is a redlink to the file namespace useful for others in being bold though? -- Toshio Yamaguchi (tlk−ctb) 13:47, 24 August 2012 (UTC)

OH! So sorry. I misinterpreted the discussion that you were asking about redlinks in general. You're talking about removing redlinks to missing files, like deleted pics and stuff like that. Yeah, have at it. Those have no reason to exist. --Jayron32 14:02, 24 August 2012 (UTC)

No problem. I mainly asked this because I wanted to be sure that this is an uncontroversial editing task. -- Toshio Yamaguchi (tlk−ctb) 14:13, 24 August 2012 (UTC)

It's worth checking the history to see whether the file name was recently changed or vandalised, as you may be able to fix the redlink by re-instating the original file name. But apart from that I can't see any problems with removing them. Category:Pages with missing files is another way of finding relevant articles, and saves you relying on a possibly out-of-date report. Unfortunately another editor got into trouble for doing precisely this, so be prepared to stop and discuss if anyone queries what you are doing. -- John of Reading (talk) 14:13, 24 August 2012 (UTC)

No, he got into trouble for issues entirely unrelated to his maintainance of the filespace, despite what his protestations would have you believe. Toshio should be fine, so long as he a) actually cares about false-positives and fixing his errors b) responds to any questions that may come up in a courteous manner. People do get a bit, erm, interested, when they see the same types of edits happening in rapid succession to multiple articles, but as long as Toshio can politely explain what he's doing, I doubt anyone will persist in objecting. --Jayron32 14:24, 24 August 2012 (UTC)

Yes, checking the history seems like a good idea. Yeah, I know that that user performed that task and I am aware of that Arb case (over the correctness of which people are still divided). I will do this completely manually and I will try to take care when doing this, as I have no desire to find myself in front of the Jury :) -- Toshio Yamaguchi (tlk−ctb) 14:24, 24 August 2012 (UTC)

Sorry, my response above was also referring to general redlinks rather than redlinks to files. I didn't notice the word 'files' before '/1' in the name of the report you named. RJFJR (talk) 15:56, 24 August 2012 (UTC)

Verify source

On the article Where the Power Is I wish to verify the quoted text starting "unfolds the tale as ..." in the first refernece. The link requires permission that I don't have. Can someone confirm the contents in http://www.facebook.com/notes/jefferson-jesu/poisoned-electrick-head-where-the-power-is/10150340225499657

PS. I know Wikipedia has a place where you can get a source verified but having spent 10 mins without success looking for it I'm posting here.

If the text exists is it "as a objective observer" or "as an objective observer"? Regards, Sun Creator^(talk) 12:27, 24 August 2012 (UTC)

I have a FB account and cannot view the material either because the link no longer works. The author has likely removed it. Dismas|^(talk) 12:31, 24 August 2012 (UTC)

Thanks, you may have to be friend with the band member jefferson-jesu to get the permissions see it. Regards, Sun Creator^(talk) 12:51, 24 August 2012 (UTC)

Sun Creator, the place you're looking for is most probably WP:Reliable sources noticeboard. A boat that can float! (watch me float!) 12:39, 24 August 2012 (UTC)

Nope, but thanks for the reply. It's a matter of verification of the source not whether it is reliable or not. Regards, Sun Creator^(talk) 12:51, 24 August 2012 (UTC)

The place you want is Wikipedia:WikiProject Resource Exchange, which is designed to do exactly what you want, which is to find people who can access sources you can't. --Jayron32 13:20, 24 August 2012 (UTC)

YES! It's WP:REX that I was thinking of but couldn't find. Regards, Sun Creator^(talk) 14:44, 24 August 2012 (UTC)

Highway sign on exit lists

Hello. I recently created an svg version of the Capital Beltway Sign, and placed it at the top of the infobox for the Capital Beltway article. I would like it to appear in the infoboxes and exit lists of intersecting highways (just as little signs for the New Jersey Turnpike and Garden State Parkway appear in the I-95 (NJ) article, for example. I looked at the edit file for that and other highways, but I can't seem to figure out the coding. Is there a template somewhere that I can't find? Thank you.    → Michael J Ⓣ Ⓒ Ⓜ 14:45, 24 August 2012 (UTC)

Sadly, since this is a non-free image it cannot be used merely for decoration. -- John of Reading (talk) 14:49, 24 August 2012 (UTC)

So this sign is different than or ? I am not 100% sure it is copyrighted, I was playing it safe when I uploaded it. ... Anyway, can someone explain the technical procedure as to how the other ones got on those lists?    → Michael J Ⓣ Ⓒ Ⓜ 15:05, 24 August 2012 (UTC)

It's a bit complicated, but my understanding is that simple shapes and text cannot be copyrightable as artwork, so the standard numbered route sign, like a "24" in a square, is not under copyright protection. However, some signs do pass the Threshold of originality, and as such, need to be treated like any other piece of visual artwork with regards to copyright law, and likewise, at Wikipedia. As far as how the (non-copyrighted) signs get used, you'll probably want to ask at WP:USRD which is the project that works in this area. As far as I remember (having worked on many highway articles, though many years ago) there is a template system they use. It's not hard to use, but it does take a little time to learn it. --Jayron32 15:31, 24 August 2012 (UTC)

(edit conflict)First, you should not be uploading images unless you are completely certain of its copyright status. While claiming fair use is indeed safer than saying it's in the public domain (as the latter could constitute copyright infringement if it is copyrighted, whereas there's no legal issue with the latter), it's very important to get things right as the copyright status severely impacts what we and others can do with the image. Which brings me to answer your question - fair use images are subject to a number of strict criteria, among the most important of which is that they be minimally used, only as necessary to provide justifiable encyclopedic value. Using the image in lists as you describe violates this "minimal use" condition. The logo could probably be used once in an article about the beltway system in general, but it would be difficult to justify use elsewhere. The logos you include above can be used by anyone for any purpose as they are in the public domain, and thus not subject to any form of copyright protection (trademark laws may still apply, but that doesn't significantly impact legitimate use on Wikipedia). I'd recommend you try and determine the actual copyright status of the beltway logo, as if it is fair use you need to specify the exact owner of the copyright on the image page (the image may be subject to deletion otherwise). Hersfold non-admin^(t/a/c) 15:40, 24 August 2012 (UTC)

Thank you. I am attempting to determine who owns the image, but since more than one state is involved, it is not so easy. As it stands, the logo/sign is used on only the Capital Beltway page, which seems to be fair use. (Am I correct?) I think I will take this discussion over to WP:USRD before I do anything else. Someone there may actually know what we are guessing at. Thank you.    → Michael J Ⓣ Ⓒ Ⓜ 16:09, 24 August 2012 (UTC)

Triple crown nomination

I recently nominated myself for a regular triple crown, as I meet all the criteria. Is there anyone such as a coordinator or a reviewer list, that I could inquire with to speed up the process? Thanks, TRLIJC19 (talk • contribs) 15:52, 24 August 2012 (UTC)

That award used to be managed by User:Durova, though checking at her contributions history, it looks like she may have drastically pulled back her participation at Wikipedia; it looks like she's only active a few days each month. She is still checking in from time to time, so if you left a friendly note on her user talk page, she should get it the next time she stops by. She's perfectly friendly, from the interactions I have had with her in the past, and I would be surprised if she completely ignored you, though it may take some days or weeks before she checks in. That's the best advise I can offer. --Jayron32 16:24, 24 August 2012 (UTC)

Thank you; I've dropped a note on her talk page. TRLIJC19 (talk • contribs) 16:39, 24 August 2012 (UTC)

Using Template:Double image within Template:Multiple image

Is this possible? I wish to create a quadruple image, 4 squares within a square, where each of the 4 images is independent of the others. Can't get it to work perfectly, this is what I get (I don't want the headers and captions):

[[file:

File:Solfège-re.svg

|100px|alt=]]

[[file:

File:Solfège-re.svg

|100px|alt=]]

Thanks. (Lobsterthermidor (talk) 16:22, 24 August 2012 (UTC))

Do you mean like this?:

Not really, I want them to look like 4 images within a square box. Thanks anyway. (Lobsterthermidor (talk) 20:26, 24 August 2012 (UTC))

Well, the "NeverAffixed" image is itself not square, so if you want to use a table method you will just have to hand-tweak margins and/or column widths if you want the box exactly square. 86.183.2.108 (talk) 21:06, 24 August 2012 (UTC)

Forget the shape of the content of the frames, it's the frames themselves I want to fit together in a box of 4, as above right, but just without the strange code "File:" and "", don't know why that crops up, I'd like it not to print, then the boxes would fit together. Any more ideas? Thanks. (Lobsterthermidor (talk) 22:22, 24 August 2012 (UTC))

Brilliant! Thanks a lot. (Lobsterthermidor (talk) 22:22, 24 August 2012 (UTC))

I'm a bit confused now ... what is the difference between the one that was "Not really" what you wanted, and the one that is "Brilliant!"? 86.183.2.108 (talk) 23:13, 24 August 2012 (UTC)

I don't see but two images "above right".— Vchimpanzee · talk · contributions · 19:43, 27 August 2012 (UTC)

Deletion.

Can you PLEASE put a thing in settings, "delete account"? Because I don't want this account anymore. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 12ashley (talk • contribs) 17:09, 24 August 2012 (UTC)

It is not possible to delete user accounts, as all contributions must be assigned to some identifier; either a username or an IP address.

All Wikipedia editors have the right to leave Wikipedia for good (ie, permanently). The usual way to leave the Wikipedia project is simply to stop editing. Your contributions remain in Wikipedia. If you wish to resume editing at a later date, you can simply start again by logging into the same account. Old accounts that have any significant edits are almost never deleted or recycled to new users.

If you decide to make a fresh start and do not wish to be connected to a previous account, you can simply discontinue the old account(s) and create a new one that becomes the only account you use. Discontinuing the old account means it will not be used again; it should note on its user page that it is inactive— for example, with the {{retired}} tag —to prevent the switch being seen as an attempt to sock puppet.

Editors seeking privacy per their right to vanish can have their accounts renamed and their user pages and (in some cases) user talk pages deleted. -- Toshio Yamaguchi (tlk−ctb) 17:32, 24 August 2012 (UTC)

search for a winebago to rent

how do i advertise for a winebago-type motor home for a family vacation? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.7.117.157 (talk) 18:47, 24 August 2012 (UTC)

Craig's list? --Jayron32 18:50, 24 August 2012 (UTC)

sortable wikitable

In List of impact craters on Earth, the list is sorting 10, 100, 11, 12, etc. Can this be fixed? Rmhermen (talk) 20:04, 24 August 2012 (UTC)

Hmm… You might be interested in Help:Sorting#Numerical_sorting_problems. benzband (talk) 22:18, 24 August 2012 (UTC)

I'm puzzled. One solution, which I have used effectively, is to use the sort template. You can see it working correctly in 2009 NCAA Women's Division I Basketball Tournament where the Table sorts by the regular season record correctly. However, when I try the same thing on this table, see test in User:Sphilbrick/sandbox, it doesn't work. There's something different, but I haven't worked out what it is.--SPhilbrick(Talk) 18:10, 25 August 2012 (UTC)

Because they sort alphabetically rather than numerically, you can use Template:Hs as a work-around ("{{hs|010}} 10" for example, to sort the value of 10 properly in a list of numbers up to 999). You would need to decide on how many digits your column will have, and apply this to all numbers that have fewer digits. BigNate37_(T) 19:25, 25 August 2012 (UTC)

It is literally mindboggling that in 2012, we have to use crude workarounds to sort.--SPhilbrick(Talk) 19:46, 25 August 2012 (UTC)

I fixed one of the tables, more work than it is worth.--SPhilbrick(Talk) 20:24, 25 August 2012 (UTC)

Thanks all. I thought this might have been fixed. I think I remember some Bugzilla request about it. Rmhermen (talk) 22:22, 25 August 2012 (UTC)

Phantom categories

Does anybody have any idea why on the Wikipedia:Template messages/User talk namespace/Single-level templates page there are four hidden categories that cannot seem to be removed? I have tried purging, null edits, etc.; nothing has worked. There is no option to remove them with HotCat, and they are not manually listed in the source text. The cats in question are Category:User talk pages with Uw-affiliate notices, Category:User talk pages with Uw-bizlist notices, Category:Wikipedia usernames with possible policy issues, and Category:User talk pages with conflict of interest notices. Thanks in advance. NTox · talk 21:22, 24 August 2012 (UTC)

They are written into the templates that are used on that page. So, for instance, you can have an infobox for lute players with a category written into it that puts the article automatically into Category:Lute players. The category doesn't show up in the source for the article but it does show up in the infobox template source. Dismas|^(talk) 21:36, 24 August 2012 (UTC)

Thank you. You might call this a facepalm moment. For some reason, I was under the impression that transclusions of templates did not automatically include the categories that were written into them. Thanks, again. NTox · talk 22:10, 24 August 2012 (UTC)