Wikipedia:Help desk/Archives/2012 March 22

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March 22

Incorrect information on article.

Good Morning (in Sydney, Australia anyway),

I was browsing through the page for Jose Mourinho, former Chelsea FC Manager, and found incorrect information.

Looking at this article's summary on the right hand side of the page I found Mourinho's summary of Apps and Goals as a footballer.

The summary reads as follow:

Years Team Apps† (Gls)† 1980–1982 Rio Ave 16 (2) 1982–1983 Belenenses 16 (2) 1983–1985 Sesimbra 35 (1) 1985–1987 Comércio e Indústria 27 (8) Total 94 (15)

Whilst the total number of appearances is correct (94), the number of goals scored does not add up to 15 as stated, this number should be 13.

It is not a great deal, but I thought it would be an injustice to Wikipedia if this kind of obvious typing error is brought to light to question the authenticity and reliability of the site's contents.

Have a great day. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 210.8.47.16 (talk) 00:30, 22 March 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for reporting this. I have fixed it by changing the total to 13.[1] PrimeHunter (talk) 00:55, 22 March 2012 (UTC)

Finding File Names and Locations

If you navigate to:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elvis_Presley

You can see the first picture of Elvis.

The name of that picture, on Wikipedia's servers is:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/99/Elvis_Presley_promoting_Jailhouse_Rock.jpg/220px-Elvis_Presley_promoting_Jailhouse_Rock.jpg

If you click on the picture, you go to the webpage:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Elvis_Presley_promoting_Jailhouse_Rock.jpg

Which shows a larger version of Elvis, namely the graphic:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/99/Elvis_Presley_promoting_Jailhouse_Rock.jpg/465px-Elvis_Presley_promoting_Jailhouse_Rock.jpg

1) My question is, how does wikipedia decide where to put these pictures? 2) How does it decide to use the directory part "/9/99/"? 3) From the Elvis article, is there any way of deducing the file name and location of the larger picture on the "file:" page, without having to click on the picture to load the "file:" page?

I can see that both files are in the same directory, but they have different file names reflecting their size. Is there any way to deduce this (for the larger pictures file name) without clicking on the picture?

There must be an algorithm out there that logically decides these file sizes and therefore the names of these files.

Thanks in advance, Jeff Jroehl (talk) 01:41, 22 March 2012 (UTC)

See mw:Manual:Image Administration#Data storage. It links to mw:Manual:$wgHashedUploadDirectory. http://md5-hash-online.waraxe.us/ says Elvis_Presley_promoting_Jailhouse_Rock.jpg has md5 hash 99fee20e425256b89f3d4c5e5e32bc1e. PrimeHunter (talk) 01:59, 22 March 2012 (UTC)

Oh, so the pictures are saved and categorized by a subset of their hash value? I thought I invented that. lol

Thankyou very much for this. It was what I suspected, yet it would have taken me forever to figure it out.

Jroehl (talk) 02:18, 22 March 2012 (UTC)

Oh, it is a hash of the file name and not the picture itself. That is very cool and solves all of my problems. I will put $100 in the offering plate at church this Sunday to memorialize how helpful you have been to me tonight. Jroehl (talk) 02:22, 22 March 2012 (UTC)

Here, wait, PrimeHunter, how do I figure out the name of the file 465px-Elvis_Presley_promoting_Jailhouse_Rock.jpg?

Specificall the "465px-" prefix to the file name?

Thanks Jeff Jroehl (talk) 02:35, 22 March 2012 (UTC)

I don't have a source but it appears that if originalheight > 600 then previewwidth = floor(600 * originalwidth / originalheight). For File:Elvis Presley promoting Jailhouse Rock.jpg we get previewwidth = floor(600 * 2673/3448) = floor(465.139) = 465, and hence 465px in the name. For File:Chet R. Allen.jpg we get previewwidth = floor(600 * 430/717) = floor(359.832) = 359. The preview file has 359px in the name and not 360. That indicated to me that floor and not rounding to nearest integer is used. The infobox image in Elvis Presley is 220*284. Due to rounding issues, this cannot be used to accurately predict the name of the preview file on the file page. floor(600 * 220/284) = floor(464.788) = 464, which is one off. And if originalheight < 600 then the original file is displayed on the file page. For example File:King Creole 1958 (Elvis Presley and Carolyn Jones).JPG which is 281 * 127 and displays http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6a/King_Creole_1958_%28Elvis_Presley_and_Carolyn_Jones%29.JPG. I don't think an article displaying the image will reveal whether this happens. PrimeHunter (talk) 03:30, 22 March 2012 (UTC)

By the way, are you sure you want the preview from the file page and not the original file which is often larger? The original has a predictable name with no size added. Click "Full resolution‎" on the file page to get the original: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/99/Elvis_Presley_promoting_Jailhouse_Rock.jpg (2,673 × 3,448 pixels, file size: 4.45 MB). The wikicode [[Media:filename]] makes a link to the original file: Media:Elvis Presley promoting Jailhouse Rock.jpg. PrimeHunter (talk) 13:10, 22 March 2012 (UTC)

So there really is no way to predict the name of the "file:" picture. Because this is an "insider information" predicated on the size of the initial file. If the file isn't very big it just saves it with its original name for "file:". If it is to big, it re-sizes the image and adds a prefix to its original file name reflecting the new size of the image. Predicting the new name of the file would be complex and possibly arbitrary giving rounding issues and the likelihood that this method has probably changed over time.

Given that the "file:" image is the one I want, because of the consistency of its size, I would have to retrieve the:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:file_name.jpg

page each time, to deduce this image files name accurately and in a consistent manner.

I cant download the original file, as these are just to big in many cases. I really need to leverage Wikipedia's excellent efforts in creating a uniform image file size.

Again, you have no idea how helpful you have been User:PrimeHunter. This has been a very interesting discussion.

Is my analysis correct?

Thanks

108.218.250.124 (talk) 17:23, 22 March 2012 (UTC)

I am re-signing this post, because I was apparently logged out when I submitted my latest entry earlier.

Jroehl (talk) 17:26, 22 March 2012 (UTC)

Mobile browser

I much preferred the old version of the browser that did not change the size of the text when I turned my phone sideways. The new text is far to large. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 166.137.14.108 (talk) 03:25, 22 March 2012 (UTC)

Try asking at WP:VPT. — Vchimpanzee · talk · contributions · 21:35, 23 March 2012 (UTC)

Mobile interface

Sirs:

I muchly dislike the mobile interface. The 'permanently disable mobile interface' cookie has stopped working, and the 'permanently disable mobile interface' option is no longer offered. This causes me great displeasure. Please correct. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.47.50.238 (talk) 05:50, 22 March 2012 (UTC)

Try asking at WP:VPT.— Vchimpanzee · talk · contributions · 21:36, 23 March 2012 (UTC)

The "Mobile view" / "Desktop view" are now persistent. That is, when you switch from mobile to desktop and navigate to another page, it should stay in desktop mode.--Eloquence* 00:18, 25 March 2012 (UTC)

Incorrct id

This photo is incorrectly identerfyed http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Arcyria.nutans.jpg It should be Fuligo septica Its also linked to other pages that are causing problems with the wrong species been shown — Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.60.241.175 (talk) 08:26, 22 March 2012 (UTC)

This desk is for requesting help on the English Wikipedia, the image in question is hosted on Wikimedia Commons, and no English articles use the image. You should raise the issue on Commons or where the image is used. Arcyria.nutans.jpg on Commons lists the articles it is used in under "File usage on other wikis". Яehevkor ✉ 11:02, 22 March 2012 (UTC)

Finland language links

Hello, This article is missing the Links to the same article in other languages. Thanks! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finland — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.217.155.50 (talk) 10:47, 22 March 2012 (UTC)

 Fixed There was a stray '!', which was preventing a hidden text from closing. Dru of Id (talk) 11:43, 22 March 2012 (UTC)

In doing that you also removed a }}, which broke one of the navboxes and left it showing the text:

{{Navboxes |title = Articles Related to Finland |list = 

I've corrected it. - David Biddulph (talk) 12:01, 22 March 2012 (UTC)

Sorry, that was my first correction preview, which didn't work; thought I'd cleared that. Dru of Id (talk) 12:07, 22 March 2012 (UTC)

latin

good day. On Saturday I found latin quotes and sayings on your website and do not seem to get to the same page. it was alphabetic starting with the latin and explaining of the meaning in the next column - please help me? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 41.145.114.151 (talk) 12:24, 22 March 2012 (UTC)

Are you sure you didn't reach the Latin version of Wikiquote? Nyttend (talk) 12:44, 22 March 2012 (UTC)

List of Latin phrases (full) perhaps? Dru of Id (talk) 12:59, 22 March 2012 (UTC)

Looking for a tool

Is there any tool that can be used to find all the pages that are in the same combination of categories? For example, imagine that we have Categories A, B, and C; a tool I'm discussing would be able to show all the pages that are in A and C while ignoring pages in A, pages in C and B, pages in A, B, and C, etc. I'm loth to supply the names of the pages that prompted this: I'm looking to make a WP:DUCK argument for WP:SPI that would be based partially on categorisation of user pages. Nyttend (talk) 12:51, 22 March 2012 (UTC)

Wikipedia:CatScan? PrimeHunter (talk) 12:58, 22 March 2012 (UTC)

Not precisely, because it doesn't look like it allows me to exclude pages that don't have the precise combination of categories; if I understand rightly, I can tell it to exclude pages with Category C, but I can't tell it to exclude pages with everything but Categories A and B. As well, I couldn't get it to work, as the following error kept appearing:

MYSQL error : The MySQL server is running with the --read-only option so it cannot execute this statement [INSERT IGNORE INTO cat2 ( catname ) VALUES ( "[name of the category that I had typed; again, hidden for WP:SPI reasons]" )]

I tried entering the category names as "A" and "B", and as "Category:A" and "Category:B", but the same message appeared both times. I changed no other settings from their default, except I told it to search only userspace and usertalkspace. Nyttend (talk) 14:06, 22 March 2012 (UTC)

Bare URL help?

I just realized that someone had added a bare URL message to the references section on the article Tere Ghar Ke Samne. I know that there are bare URLs, but I don't understand the article on inline citations and all that. Are those inline citations or general citations? I'm also confused as to how to add the date and everything. Please help - I don't want that tag to stay up there for long! Fireblazex3 (talk) 13:42, 22 March 2012 (UTC)

See WP:CITE. These are inline citations: they're typed inside <ref> and </ref> tags, and the {{Reflist}} template makes them all appear together. An example of general citations appears in the "Bibliography" section of yesterday's featured article — the whole work is cited, either so that your inline citations can be minimal (which this article does; it uses "Colvin, p. 167" rather than using "Colvin, Sir Howard (1983). Unbuilt Oxford. Yale University Press. 167. ISBN 0-300-03126-2."), or because you're wanting to tell readers that there's another work out there that might be useful reading on the subject. The second option is not for use when the page derives information from that source: we need to include page numbers when we use a work as a source for information, but we don't need to give them when we're telling readers that they might appreciate this book for more in-depth reading. Nyttend (talk) 14:12, 22 March 2012 (UTC)

Oops, forgot to tell you — you don't have to use the citation templates that are mentioned at WP:CITE. When you're improving a citation to a webpage, you need to provide the individual author's name (if it's given), the hyperlinked title of the work, the publishing entity, the date when the webpage was published (if it's given; if it's not, type "n.d.", which is short for "no date"), and the date when you accessed the page. All that being said, I'm not at all excited about the citations on this article; many go to blogs or other unreliable sources. For an example of what you need in a citation, look at the "References" section of List of Indiana state historical markers. Nyttend (talk) 14:16, 22 March 2012 (UTC)

Sorry, I'm really confused! The sources are from the Net, so what do I have to do? Add the date or something? Fireblazex3 (talk) 07:09, 23 March 2012 (UTC)

A title would be nice. That way if the links go bad, people will at least have some idea of what to search for, and they might be able to replace the old link with a new one.— Vchimpanzee · talk · contributions · 21:38, 23 March 2012 (UTC)

iso (in search of)

hi, it's me again;

now i need a picture of a "6th generation" (i.e.: 1980 model year) lincoln continental, that is NOT a "mark" (& is a continental, not a versailles), for Lincoln Continental

this is proving to be unexpectedly difficult; it is one of the 2 most important illustrations the article lacks, & commons is not giving me what i need.

i'm not sure where-all or where-best to post a request for this?

(the other pic most-needed is of edsel ford's continental prototype/custom vehicle, also a big nothing @ commons)

Lx 121 (talk) 15:17, 22 March 2012 (UTC)

Maybe a request at Wikipedia:Requested pictures may yield some results? – ukexpat (talk) 15:49, 22 March 2012 (UTC)

If they are rare, you may find a collector or seller online that may wish to GNU licence an image for you?--Canoe1967 (talk) 16:03, 22 March 2012 (UTC)

On the Wiki facebook page for the BuxMont Torch FC

The facebook page for the Wikipedia article re: the BuxMont Torch FC implies we are a professional soccer team. Could that please be corrected. We are amateur organization and I wouldn't want a college player's eligibilty put into question because of misinformation. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Rwsparling (talk • contribs) 15:42, 22 March 2012 (UTC)

The Wikipedia article Buxmont Torch states "Buxmont Torch is an amateur American soccer team". If a Facebook page says otherwise, you will have to ask someone connected with Facebook to get it corrected. Maproom (talk) 16:09, 22 March 2012 (UTC)

facebook "scrapes" copies of our articles for those pages, but i am not sure how often they update their "scrape"; unfortunately the problem is on the facebook side, not something that can be fixed here... Lx 121 (talk) 16:25, 22 March 2012 (UTC)

Facebook community pages may incorporate content from Wikipedia— such use complies with Wikipedia policies on reuse of content. We at Wikipedia have no control over how the content is included nor can we help to remove it. Facebook does have a topic on Community pages and profile connections on their Help Center.

In the case of http://www.facebook.com/pages/Buxmont-Torch/186896104687811 I don't know where Facebook got "Professional Sports Team" from. Note that it is written at the top before they write:

Description

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This is followed by text copied from Wikipedia. I haven't found signs that Wikipedia has ever called it a professional team. The Google search "Professional Sports Team" site:facebook.com gives me "About 179,000,000 results". It's apparently a term Facebook is very fond of. PrimeHunter (talk) 00:37, 23 March 2012 (UTC)

"The Son of Man" by Emil Ludwig

Ladies & Gentlemen at Wikipedia, In my personal library at home, I just found a book entitled "The Son of Man" by Emil Ludwig. It was translated from the German publication by Ernst Rowohlt Verlag, Berlin in 1928. Translated from German into English by Eden and Cedar Paul, it was published in 1928 by Boni & Liverwright, New York. Although the book is for sale on amazon.com, your page about Emil Ludwig makes no mention of the book at all. Perhaps you can explain why. Thank you, OF3 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Oksanag50 (talk • contribs) 15:53, 22 March 2012 (UTC)

Our articles about writers do not necessarily list every single book, story or article they ever wrote. It is also possible that the article mentions the book under its original German title. --Orange Mike | Talk 16:27, 22 March 2012 (UTC)

Besides, it is mentioned: After his biography of Goethe was published in 1920, he wrote several similar biographies, including one about Bismarck (1922–24) and another about Jesus (1928)." (emphasis added). --Orange Mike | Talk 16:32, 22 March 2012 (UTC)

Does this type of thing need to be sourced?

There's a section in the Dylan and Cole Sprouse article about their brand, Sprouse Bros. It mentions how the items are being sold exclusively online. However, the online store they were on has abruptly stopped selling them (the page now redirects to the homepage), and there was no announcement or anything that the items would no longer be sold. Is it okay to add a sentence mentioning how they're not being sold if there's not technically a source to back it up? (The only way to really source it that I have thought of is to link to the dead site, and well, that seems kinda stupid.) Thanks for any help on this. - Purplewowies (talk) 16:52, 22 March 2012 (UTC)

BLP articles are a can of worms. The safest way may be to state that they were still selling online only as of Feb. 2012, type thing.--Canoe1967 (talk) 18:27, 22 March 2012 (UTC)

glitch!?!

All of a sudden, when the ghost, 'type your question here' began appearing in the searchbox, the first two letters are transposed when the search is activated. This only happens on Wiki, so I doubt its my eqpt...Um, I've found that typing a leading space solves the problem, but it's still annoying.

Possibly, look into the 'mobile?' routine; I'm running Android, but I prefer to 'see' pages 'in full', and some soft seems unable to get its little mind around that... some tablets 'look' like mobiles, but work (and look) better in full mode... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.146.189.6 (talk) 18:24, 22 March 2012 (UTC)

Wiki is not a synonym for Wikipedia; there are many wikis and Wikipedia is just one. If you do mean Wikipedia, try WP:VPT.— Vchimpanzee · talk · contributions · 21:44, 23 March 2012 (UTC)

Looking for a specific deleted page in my userspace

Resolved

 – The rest is up to the people at WP:UND. :) -- Toshio Yamaguchi (tlk−ctb) 19:17, 22 March 2012 (UTC)

In my userspace, there should be a number of subpages named UserpageX, where X is a number, like User:Toshio Yamaguchi/Userpage3. On one of those pages, there should be a long list of mathematical papers. Could an admin take a look and then tell me, which of them it is? -- Toshio Yamaguchi (tlk−ctb) 18:45, 22 March 2012 (UTC)

User:Toshio Yamaguchi/Userpage4 has a list of Mathematical papers discussing Wieferich primes. GB fan 18:51, 22 March 2012 (UTC)

That's the one I am referring to. Thanks. -- Toshio Yamaguchi (tlk−ctb) 18:54, 22 March 2012 (UTC)

Search History?

Is it possible to easily view articles that one has previously searched for? It would be SO convenient to have a tab/header one could click to view recently viewed articles. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Madtown10 (talk • contribs) 19:49, 22 March 2012 (UTC)

That would be in your browser, not in Wikipedia. We don't have the server space or pipelines for a high-workload feature like that. --Orange Mike | Talk 19:58, 22 March 2012 (UTC)

Templates in captions

Is it possible to incorporate templates such as {{harvnb}} into image captions? When I try, the image syntax always recognizes the final parameter of the template as the caption, as well as the "}}". Chris the Paleontologist (talk • contribs) 21:19, 22 March 2012 (UTC)

I just previewed harvnb's use in a file caption in an article with existing uses of the template and it worked without a hitch. Specifically, in the article Alphabet I edited the image to this code (my change in green):

[[File:Caslon-schriftmusterblatt.jpeg|thumb|300px|''A Specimen'' of [[typeset]] [[font]]s and [[language]]s...(etc.)<ref>{{harvnb|Haarmann|2004|p=96}}</ref>]]

and it previewed fine. Can you provide an example of the the full image code snippet where it's not working?--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 21:58, 22 March 2012 (UTC)

I should have clarified—I meant without <ref> and </ref>. I want to state that a diagram is based upon a source, and link to that source with Harvnb. If it's not possible, I'll just use an inline citation instead, but I'd prefer this way. Chris the Paleontologist (talk • contribs) 22:22, 22 March 2012 (UTC)

The above example also works without ref tags:

[[File:Caslon-schriftmusterblatt.jpeg|thumb|300px|''A Specimen'' of [[typeset]] [[font]]s and [[language]]s...(etc.){{harvnb|Haarmann|2004|p=96}}]]

As Fuhghettaboutit said, can you provide an example of the the full image code snippet where it's not working? It's hard to tell what's wrong with your code when you don't post it. PrimeHunter (talk) 23:59, 22 March 2012 (UTC)

(e/c) I wish I understood what you meant but I don't. Maybe someone else will. Harvnb finds the first matching citation on the page and links to it. If you use it to link to something that's not on the page the link just doesn't work. As far as I know it won't link to an external source. For example, if you use the above harvnb citation, you get Haarmann 2004, p. 96 which looks like it links somewhere, but if you click on that you'll see it does nothing because it's trying to take you to this page but with action=submit#CITEREFHaarmann2004 added to the URL, and of course this page has nothing that that can link to. An external URL in the template will just be added to the automatic url after action=submit#. That being said, using the above harvbn example without the ref tags also works fine, so it really might help if you posted the code you are trying to add that is breaking (inside nowiki tags) so we can address something concrete.--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 00:25, 23 March 2012 (UTC)

Yes, I am talking about linking to a citation already on the page. The following seems to break the code, leaving the image intact but ruining the caption:

[[File:Encrinus liliiformis with markup.jpg|thumb|left|''E. liliiformis'' with parts identified, based on {{Harvnb|Douglas ''et al.''|2009}}]]

After a bit of tweaking, I realized that it will work if I take the italics off of et al., but I'm not sure why that would matter for either the caption or Harvnb. Using Harvnb with the italics outside of the caption causes no problem, so I'm not sure what's up here. I also apologize for not being clearer before. Chris the Paleontologist (talk • contribs) 01:29, 23 March 2012 (UTC)

Don't use italics at all in harvnb. The parameter is appended to #CITEREF where apostrophes are bad (see Template:Harvard citation no brackets#Using CITEREF directly). The documentation at Template:Harvard citation no brackets always writes et al without italics. PrimeHunter (talk) 02:55, 23 March 2012 (UTC)

I was wondering about that; whether italics should be used at all, and found a few discussions: Template talk:Harvard citation no brackets#Editprotected but Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style/Abbreviations/Archive 2#Et al., Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style/Archive 108#E.g., i.e., and etc. and Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style/Archive 96#Latin phrases and abbreviations. So it looks like consensus is that italics should not be used. Just as a thought experiment, I was thinking of a work around and came up with the incredibly ugly:

[[File:Encrinus liliiformis with markup.jpg|thumb|left|''E. liliiformis'' with parts identified, based on <span class=plainlinks>[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Encrinus#CITEREFDouglas_et_al.2009 Douglas ''et al.'' 2009]</span>]]

This would function exactly the same for some users, but in addition to the italics issue, this would be a very bad idea because other users have their configurations set to open up external links in new tabs or windows.--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 03:29, 23 March 2012 (UTC)

Actually, hmm, maybe it would not need to be an external link at all, maybe just [[#CITEREFHaarmann2004|Douglas ''et al.'' 2009]]; academic at this point.--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 03:34, 23 March 2012 (UTC)

That would work. harvnb generates [[#CITEREF...|...]]. You could just have entered the reported [[File:Encrinus liliiformis with markup.jpg|thumb|left|''E. liliiformis'' with parts identified, based on {{Harvnb|Douglas ''et al.''|2009}}]] at Special:ExpandTemplates, and then remove the apostrophes from #CITEREF in the produced code. But I don't recommend doing this in articles. It may break later if changes are made elsewhere. PrimeHunter (talk) 03:51, 23 March 2012 (UTC)

The Harv and citation templates do not use et. al in italics, as a common use in English; see MOS:Ety. The Harv templates aren't designed to use et. al in the manner you are using them. ---— Gadget850 (Ed) ^talk 17:22, 23 March 2012 (UTC)