Wikipedia:Help desk/Archives/2015 September 14

Welcome to the Wikipedia Help Desk Archives
The page you are currently viewing is an archive page. While you can leave answers for any questions shown below, please ask new questions on one of the current Help Desk pages.

September 14

Vmoney

Good day,

I recently posted an article about a company called "Vmoney" it was tagged as advertising and taken down. I tried to oppose the tag by posting on the talk page but I was offered no clarification as to why exactly it was marked as advertising when the language used was neutral; I also received no advise on how to rectify the article. The page is currently only accessible to admins and I would like aid in either accessing this article and trying to post again or at least some pointers as to why the article was tagged as such.

Any response would be much appreciated.

Thank you! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Vince Manning (talk • contribs) 05:57, 14 September 2015 (UTC)

Good day,

I recently posted an article about a company called "Vmoney" it was tagged as advertising and taken down. I tried to oppose the tag by posting on the talk page but I was offered no clarification as to why exactly it was marked as advertising when the language used was neutral; I also received no advise on how to rectify the article. The page is currently only accessible to admins and I would like aid in either accessing this article and trying to post again or at least some pointers as to why the article was tagged as such.

Any response would be much appreciated.

Thank you! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Vince Manning (talk • contribs) 06:54, 14 September 2015 (UTC)

@Vince Manning: You could ask the admin who deleted it on his or her talk page. If you want to resubmit it and make sure that it would meet Wikipedia standards, you could go through the procedure as shown on WP:AFC where AFC reviewers like me can give comments to a draft and eventually accept it. The Average Wikipedian (talk) 09:03, 14 September 2015 (UTC)

I agree with the above, but just a few examples. Phrases such as "The company's solutions provide a financial transaction platform that enables businesses and consumers to move money easily and instantly" and " VMoney was conceptualized to bring this service within the reach of a broader market" and "It envisioned equipping the unbanked with the capability to manage their finances and enable them to completely grasp and utilize the advantages of technology and modern day conveniences." and "...by using the latest technologies..." are highly promotional. The whole thing read like an advertising handout or web site for the business, not a neutral description. A "list of products" is rarely a good sign, for example, especially when some of them are only planned. Reliance on Press Releases or "news stories" directly based on PR as sources is also not a good idea. All of this is why (or part of why) people with conflict of interest are strongly discouraged from writing articles about their firms. They all too often create pages full of marketing-speak and honestly think it is neutral because it does not include intentional deception. DES ^(talk) 11:57, 14 September 2015 (UTC)

How do I award someone a barnstar

I have never done this before, and although I have looked up WP:BARNSTAR and so forth, it's not clear to me how I actually go about awarding one. I might (as a test) award one to myself, but particularly wanted to award one to User:Tavix for his constant help and good nature at WP:RFD. I know it can't be that difficult, I just have never have done it before. Si Trew (talk) 07:20, 14 September 2015 (UTC)

@SimonTrew: The easiest method: go on their user page and click on the heart symbol next to the watchlist star. A helpful menu will pop up. The Average Wikipedian (talk) 09:03, 14 September 2015 (UTC)

The heart symbol only appears when you are on another's user's talk page - as you can only add barnstars etc. there not in articles etc. If it does not appear, click the Preferences tab at the top, then Editing and check the third box down "Enable showing appreciation for other users with the WikiLove tab" and save - Confusingly, nothing appears to happen, as you are not on a users talk page. It will not appear until you go to another users talk page - you can't praise yourself, so it will not appear on your talk page - Arjayay (talk) 09:11, 14 September 2015 (UTC)

Thanks for the advice. I only use I don't know the kinda standard skin, I am not sure would that make a difference? I am not a complete idiot, just a general idiot. I use Mozilla Firefox as a browser. Tavix and I get along quite well, we don't always agree but we always disagree politely, so I just thought he or she I dunno I added one manually to their talk page but I probably cocked that up too, I couldn't work out how to add the message to the caption so I just gave up and added it manually below the barnstar. Si Trew (talk) 10:48, 14 September 2015 (UTC)

If you want to award a barnstar manually it isn't hard, Arjayay. Go to Wikipedia:Barnstars and select the barnstar you want to use. Copy code for it. Then go to the user talk page of the person you want to award a barnstar to, and open a new message thread (section), just as if you were leaving that person a message about a new topic. Choose an appropriate subject line. Paste in the barnstar code you copied from the Barnstar page. The edit the code to put in the desired caption/message. For example, to award the 'special barnstar, paste in {{subst:The Special Barnstar|message ~~~~}} (without the nowiki and code tags of course) then change "message" to your desired caption/message, usually starting with "For ...". I hope that helps. DES ^(talk) 11:44, 14 September 2015 (UTC)

Err - thanks for the advice DES - I think you should have pinged Si Trew ? - Arjayay (talk) 11:51, 14 September 2015 (UTC)

Oops, how embarrassing. My apologies, Arjayay. Si Trew I hope you find this helpful. DES ^(talk) 12:02, 14 September 2015 (UTC)

Hehehe no problem to be. If you want to ask me how to create a {{rail template diagram}} or how to make a {{translated page}} then be my guest. I think, actually, it was Tavix who suggested about six months ago that I could maybe help out at the reference desk, cos I am a fountain of useless knowledge, and I hope that helps Wikipedia. Just kinda the obvious is nonobvious to me, yet ask me what is Harry S Truman's middle name (he hasn't one) and I just kinda know that. Si Trew (talk) 12:07, 14 September 2015 (UTC)

Uh oh now I am off again because since he doesn't have a middle name it shouldn't be abbreviated with the stop.... oh well...

Referencing errors on Holiday in the Protectorate

Reference help requested. Re Holiday in the protectorate. Ref bot indicates URL errors I checked the references many times, the URLs I gave are all working I reset the CITE also many times so I do not know what the problem is Thanks, Getthefatcsjones (talk) 07:43, 14 September 2015 (UTC)

 Done in this edit - your reference 12 started " /www " not " http://www " - Arjayay (talk) 08:48, 14 September 2015 (UTC)

Converting a Google Books or Amazon URL to a book citation

Is there a tool available that can parse Google Books or Amazon.com pages to output proper book citations? Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 08:41, 14 September 2015 (UTC)

Google Books has a tool here.Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk, contributions) 09:10, 14 September 2015 (UTC)

Thanks Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 09:44, 14 September 2015 (UTC)

Dodger67 I'm not aware of a tool that automatically converts an Amazon URL to a citation. I usually do it is a two-step process. First, I look at the Amazon page to find the ISBN, then use the following tool to create the Wikipedia citation. Note that it defaults to MLA so you have to click the radio button for Wikipedia. OttoBib-S Philbrick(Talk) 15:32, 14 September 2015 (UTC)

Sphilbrick Thanks, I also use Ottobib or simply the "Cite" menu in the edit window. I was hoping someone might have devised a tool that automatically extracts the ISBN from an Amazon page. I really wish editors could easily grasp "cite the book, not the book shop". Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 15:52, 14 September 2015 (UTC)

Abbreviating journal cites with large number of authors

What is the ideal way to shorten {{cite journal}} references when the source has a large number of authors? There are 73 authors in one of the reference at Draft:Gene of uncertain significance. -- Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 14:47, 14 September 2015 (UTC)

I found it! Use the "display-authors" parameter. Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 15:30, 14 September 2015 (UTC)

I want to translate an article I couldn't find a way to add new languages to an article. Can you help me please?

Hi,

I just read an article there is only in English. I know how to edit already but I could not find a way to translate that article and add in the other languages list. Can you please help me?

By the way, this is the article - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_resistance

Regards,

Newton — Preceding unsigned comment added by Newton Galvao (talk • contribs) 15:04, 14 September 2015 (UTC)

Hi Newton Galvao - The guide for translating English Wikipedia articles to other languages is WP:Translate us. You should also look for the corresponding guidelines of the other language Wikipedia. Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 15:19, 14 September 2015 (UTC)

Editing George Klein Entry

Good morning, I am a newbie who just submitted something to Wikipedia which has been declined. Can you tell me why and what I can do to make it suitable for inclusion? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Vivalasdivas (talk • contribs) 15:28, 14 September 2015 (UTC)

@Vivalasdivas: Good morning, but you actually need to write an article for it to be accepted. Can't help with the browser issue - I use Firefox, what do you use? Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk, contributions) 15:51, 14 September 2015 (UTC)

@Vivalasdivas: - There are several articles already on Wikipedia about people named George Klein. Before you start a new draft please check that there isn't already an article about the person you intend writing about. Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 16:20, 14 September 2015 (UTC)

Libya

Hello: I would like to see that the page concerning the country of Libya is updated. There are over 6,000,000 people who live there, and they were poorly represented by former "colonel" Muammar Gaddaffi of Sirte,Libya, who was forcibly removed from power in 2011, by Libyan Nationals who are presently fighting a civil war after capturing Gaddaffi's intelligence chief and co-leader of terrorism for years Senoussi, and Gaddaffi's son who will go on trial for treason and crimes against humanity.

My brother Mark Tobin was among the 270 murdered in the Lockerbie, Scotland bombing December 1988, and I was elected to the Bd. of Directors of the Victims of Pan Am Flight #103 and met with former Sec. State Albright, Nat. Sec. Adviser Sandy Berger, and UN Ambassador Bill Richardson over the years to keep diplomatic and economic sanctions enforced. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 104.207.219.102 (talk) 16:07, 14 September 2015 (UTC)

You could state what updates you would like to see, preferably on the article's talk page. It will help if you provide references to reliable independent published sources in support of the changes you propose. Maproom (talk) 16:17, 14 September 2015 (UTC)

How to create a personal Bio page

How would I create a page with my own personal information? I am the Owner and Founder of my own company and would like to share my information, as well as give others the Opportunity to get to know more about my success and how I originally started. — Preceding unsigned comment added by JoshuaOMcClendon (talk • contribs) 16:30, 14 September 2015 (UTC)

Well, you're welcome to do that on your own home page, but creating a Wikipedia article to promote yourself and your company is not encouraged, as then Wikipedia becomes advertisements, not an encyclopedia. StuRat (talk) 16:34, 14 September 2015 (UTC)

To expand little on what StuRat has said, JoshuaOMcClendon: you may if you choose share something about yourself as a Wikipedia editor on your User page (which I think is what StuRat meant by your 'home page'), but while a certain leeway is allowed, it should not contain a lot of content unrelated to Wikipedia. If you're talking about creating an article about yourself, then I must tell you that autobiography is very strongly discouraged. One way of looking at it is to realise that Wikipedia has very little interest in what you wish to say about yourself: if there is an article about you, it should be drawn almost entirely from what people unconnected with you have published about you. If there is a substantial amount of published material about you, by people with no connection with you (and that excludes interviews with you and article based on press releases from you or your company) then somebody could write a Wikipedia article about you, based on that independent material; if such material does not exist, or is exiguous, then it is impossible at present to write an acceptable article about you - in Wikipedia jargon, that would mean that you are "not notable". If there is the material to ground an article, you are still discouraged from writing it (you may request an article at requested articles); but if you want to try, I would strongly urge you to use the article wizard and submit your draft for review. --ColinFine (talk) 16:51, 14 September 2015 (UTC)

JoshuaOMcClendon, While I don't know what StuRat meant above, if I had written that I would have been suggesting that the proper place for such a page was a personal web site in no way connected with Wikipedia. Then if someone else thought a Wikipedia article was appropriate, that person could coite cite your page along with independent reliable sources that discuss you in detail. I do endorse the suggestion that if you try here, you use the article wizard. DES ^(talk) 16:57, 14 September 2015 (UTC)

I think "exiguous" is meant to mean "meager" and "coite" is meant to mean "assemble", although I suggest avoiding such obscure words when trying to help newbies. StuRat (talk) 13:23, 15 September 2015 (UTC)

StuRat, "coite" was simply a typo for "cite", i have struck and corrected. DES ^(talk) 13:49, 15 September 2015 (UTC)

Glad to hear it. Obscure words like "exiguous" are bad enough, but foreign language obscure words are even worse. StuRat (talk) 15:02, 15 September 2015 (UTC)

Treatment of politician articles, particularly around elections

What should be the main aim of an article about a politician up for election? Should it be biographical or informative about their experience and record with respect to the position they're standing for?

Obviously, both are important and there's a lot of overlap.

I am looking for WP policy/principle documents.

If this question is too abstract, here's the context: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk%3AGeorge_Ferguson_%28Mayor_of_Bristol%29&type=revision&diff=680948835&oldid=680538650 WykiP (talk) 17:16, 14 September 2015 (UTC)

We are an encyclopedia. Period. We are NOT a candidate advocacy/smear platform nor a voterguide. -- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom 17:29, 14 September 2015 (UTC)

IMHO we should actually simply prohibit the creation of new articles about politicians while they are candidates for election - "Try again, after the election" - and strictly limit editing of existing politician bios during election campaigns. Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 17:59, 14 September 2015 (UTC)

II agree. If you're asking about the architectural background to this person before they became a politician then it should remain. As long as everything is factual and cited then it's not right to remove biographical information just because you don't thinks it's relevant. The page should be an accurate biography AND record of a person their life and their actions. Whether they are up for election or not the information should be the same, in fact it is MORE important that an article like this is correct and complete ahead of an election. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Maltaman67 (talk • contribs) 18:07, 14 September 2015‎ (UTC)

I can see the temptation, but I think it would be a cure worse than the disease. Remember that, at least in the US, "campaigns" now last for 2 years or more in many cases. WE can't freeze articles about notable subjects for that long. Also, such a rule would invite gaming the system, whereby a more astute candidate arranges for an article to be created shortly before the rule would go into effect (however that might be determined) possibly leaving others at a disadvantage. Or else it might favor "establishment" candidates who already have articles and work against "outsiders" who only become notable once a campaign starts. Too many pitfalls, too hard to enforce, in my view. DES ^(talk) 23:35, 14 September 2015 (UTC)

Thanks everyone, I'm guessing there's little relevant policy on this. A fairly infrequently-usable guideline that arises from what Maltaman67 says would be that being allowed prior to becoming a politician adds weight to whether it should be allowed after. I haven't looked at the Trump article but that may be relevant there.

The assertion in question is that the Mayor (up for reelection in 9 months) had an affair around 20 years ago. Given how common affairs are, I'm not sure it's relevant and certainly has a defamatory effect. I will argue the case on this basis without supporting guidelines. You are welcome to chip in!

Another guideline that would be worth looking at is that any new information added during election periods that has a POV bias should have a reasonable case for being in the public interest. A weaker version would be that the new information could merely have notable publicity instead. WykiP (talk) 10:54, 15 September 2015 (UTC)

Thanks you for the clarification. IMHO If it's the detail about the marital separation you are asking about then that would be a relevant biographical detail. The affairs of other UK politicians are frequently stated in their Wikipedia articles such as London's Mayor Boris Johnson. The article you're referring to states that the affair led to their separation and there were children involved. Although not relevant to their politics it is a significant event in his life and should be recorded in the article. His children and wife's names are also there and this is all relevant to the family life of a public figure. I don't think it would be right to remove this information if it's correct even if the citation uses a pre-internet source. Can you check it? Maltaman67 (talk)(UTC)

I am surprised at this precedent. Almost half of marriages have an affair and if they're not newsworthy or relevant to what a person is notable for, I'd say they're private domain. But I may be in the minority!

I will try and follow up on the citation. Thanks again for your help. WykiP (talk) 15:45, 15 September 2015 (UTC)

• @WykiP: Half of marriages may end in divorce (in the U.S.) but half have an affair? You may need to cite your source for that. In any case, if the information has been published by a source that is reliable enough for inclusion in Wikipedia it is no longer in the private domain anyways. Wikipedia does have some restraint, especially when it comes to minors, but otherwise if it is included in an article it must have a reliable source and if there is a RS then someone has already broken the story. --Stabila711 (talk) 15:52, 15 September 2015 (UTC)

Citing references

I am working on this page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zinfandel_Advocates_and_Producers

I am seeing a note that states "This article does not cite any references or sources. Please help improve this article by adding citations to reliable sources. Unsourced material may be challenged and removed. (September 2015)"

I believe I have added citations

Also, there is a note "This article has not been added to any categories. Please help out by adding categories to it so that it can be listed with similar articles. (August 2015)"

I believe I have added categories.

Not sure what I am doing wrong. THanks in advance. — Preceding unsigned comment added by RobertXTrent (talk • contribs) 17:19, 14 September 2015 (UTC)

• @RobertXTrent: Those alerts and banners are not automatic. They are placed (and removed) by hand. If you have fixed the problems you can removed the templates. --Stabila711 (talk) 17:21, 14 September 2015 (UTC)

Thanks! — Preceding unsigned comment added by RobertXTrent (talk • contribs) 17:38, 14 September 2015 (UTC)

You're not doing anything wrong. But the organisation you are seeking to create an article about simply isn't notable. I have nothing against Zinfandel, indeed I am drinking some right now. I really hope it does not acquire the negative reputation of Beaujolais nouveau, it certainly doesn't deserve it. But a promotional organisation, however worthy its cause, is unlikely to be notable in Wikipedia's sense. Maproom (talk) 21:53, 14 September 2015 (UTC)

How do I add a deletion discussion to a deletion sorting page properly?

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

---

I used Twinkle to nominate Creepypasta for deletion but didn't use Twinkle to add {{Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Creepypasta (4th nomination)}} to Wikipedia:WikiProject Deletion sorting/Internet and instead inserted it manually thinking a BOT would add a note to Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Creepypasta (4th nomination) saying its debate was included in the page I added it to. Am I supposed to use Twinkle to include the debate in Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Creepypasta (4th nomination) in such a way that that note gets inserted into the dabate? If so, I don't know how. Blackbombchu (talk) 17:19, 14 September 2015 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

NEED INFO

Hello i want to own a portion of wikipedia, how do i buy shares of this company? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 150.156.196.101 (talk) 20:43, 14 September 2015 (UTC)

For information about the Wikimedia Foundation, a nonprofit charitable organization, see https://wikimediafoundation.org. General Ization ^Talk 20:46, 14 September 2015 (UTC)

• Wikipedia is not a publicly traded company. There are no shares to buy. You can make a donation to the Wikimedia Foundation here but that does not give you any ownership of anything on Wikipedia. --Stabila711 (talk) 20:47, 14 September 2015 (UTC)

Reliable References?

Hi! I've recently created a wiki article about a celebrity and although I believe I have added reliable resources for the most part(online magazines,official website which includes his profile) wikipedia is convinced that my sources are not verified...is there any chance of doing sth to prevent its deletion?

Lee Tae-yong (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A02:214C:820A:1500:F106:EA30:5994:657A (talk) 21:29, 14 September 2015 (UTC)

• The BLPPROD can be taken off once one reliable source is found. The ones you have now don't really make the cut. Twitter should never be used in a Wikipedia article. Secondly, allkpop says right on their website that they are "the premier source for all the latest K-pop celebrity gossip and news." You want to avoid any site that literally says they are a gossip site. Once you eliminate those, the only references you are left with are primary sources. The best sources are secondary sources. See WP:PRIMARY for the explanation why the smrookies site is acceptable only if it is backed up by another, secondary, source. There is also the issue of verifying the notability of this person. If they do not meet the notability standards set for a musician the page will be deleted regardless of the references. Please read the notability standards and ensure that they meet them. --Stabila711 (talk) 21:47, 14 September 2015 (UTC)

• Did you read the page on Reliable sources? Many of the sources in the article are self published (e.g. the SMrookies website, or his twitter feed). The rest are from websites that have been determined to be unreliable sources (allkpop.com describes itself as a celebrity gossip website). In fact, see Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard/Archive 121#allkpop.com for a discussion on allkpop in particular. Reliable sources are those that are published independently of the article subject (i.e. the subject has no input or editorial control), and which have a reputation for fact-checking.

Is there an article on this person in the Korean Wikipedia? If so, what sources does it use? Reliable sources don't have to be in English. ~ ONUnicorn^{(Talk|Contribs)}problem solving 21:49, 14 September 2015 (UTC)

• Other Wikipedia articles are not reliable sources so don't use them. Finnusertop (talk | guestbook | contribs) 21:55, 14 September 2015 (UTC)

That's correct, Finnusertop, but I think ONUnicorn was suggesting that the ko: article might itself reference some reliable sources that could be used in the en: article. On the other hand, it might not: the requirements for sourcing can vary between Wikipedias, and there are many sub-standard articles in en.wikipedia too. --ColinFine (talk) 10:17, 15 September 2015 (UTC)

You're right. Though I was referring to the en.wikipedia articles added as sources in the article. ONUnicorn and I removed them. Finnusertop (talk | guestbook | contribs) 17:52, 15 September 2015 (UTC)

Lack of information concerning pre-Confederation Newfoundland General Elections

Mon., Sept. 14th, 2015. Dear Wikipedia; I have tried to access your Wikipedia resources for information touching upon the final results of general elections in Newfoundland during the Pre-Confederation( i.e. prior to the dominion's joining Confederation in 1949), and have noticed that THIS information is UTTERLY lacking). By this I refer to: 1. ONLY the winning candidate's name is given, as opposed to any(all)opposition candidates that ran(I can assure you that Newfoundland WAS a multi-party state THROUGHOUT its history), and 2. The TOTAL results(candidates and vote tallies for ALL candidates) from the 1946 National Convention are UTTERLY ignored, despite this being indubitably a pertinent element in the island territory's history vis-a-vis its relationship with Canada). I would think you could issue a call to ANY of your Canadian contributors(or perhaps YOU yourselves could undertake this endeavor) to search for a set of "The Encyclopedia of Newfoundland and Labrador", from which they (OR you) could glean the necessary information to add to the Wikipedia section on the subject at hand. I think you would find MANY people curious to study that part of North American history who DO NOT have the benefit of possessing the aforementioned encyclopedia themselves. On a related matter, Here in Winnipeg, I have found it ALMOST IMPOSSIBLE to access MORE DETAILED results from provincial elections from provinces BESIDES MANITOBA, although I hope to be proven wrong. PLEASE try to add the aforementioned data to your vast universe of knowledge. Thank you VERY MUCH. Sincerely, Mr. David Martineau. Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada. PS IF you folks STILL use (or know about) written mail, I would appreciate a written reply. For mailing information, I will be happy to guide you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 198.163.53.11 (talk) 21:58, 14 September 2015 (UTC)

Wikipedia has lots of holes in the information it covers. But, YOU CAN HELP! All that is needed is to be able to verify content from reliably published sources. -- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom 22:02, 14 September 2015 (UTC)

You might not realize it, but Wikipedia is written entirely by volunteers. If you have access to an encyclopedia of Newfoundland and Labrador which you can use to expand our coverage of elections in that area, Feel free to edit the articles to include that information and cite that book as your source. There is a handy drop down list of citation templates to make formatting the citations easier. Alternatively, if you don't have access to that source, or you just want more information about a topic but don't know where to find it, feel free to use a {{Missing information}} at the top of the article to alert other editors that the article needs that information. As far as responding via mail, there is no one to do that because, as I said before, we are all volunteers. ~ ONUnicorn^{(Talk|Contribs)}problem solving 22:06, 14 September 2015 (UTC)

I don't think it's systemic bias, which is a neutrality issue. It's just that there are still a lot of subjects out there that are notable, but we just haven't written about yet...--ukexpat (talk) 12:43, 15 September 2015 (UTC)

I'll echo what UKexpat just said: there aren't articles, because nobody's written them. I like to do Wisconsin history, particularly legislators; many of them had no article until I wrote one. You can do the same for Newfoundland, or encourage some local historian to do so. --Orange Mike | Talk 14:58, 15 September 2015 (UTC)