Wikipedia:Help desk/Archives/2019 July 16

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July 16

Factual error needs correction

User FlightTime is blocking me from addressing a factual error on a page about astronaut Sally Ride. (I worked as a writer and editor with Ride at her science company, so he says I have a conflict of interest, but my background means I also know a great deal about her career.) He has put up a warning saying someone with a conflict of interest is a major contributor to the page, but I am not a major contributor to the page. FlightTime reversed my attempted contribution immediately. All I want to do is correct a factual error. Mking92124 (talk) 01:01, 16 July 2019 (UTC)

Correction, I'm not blocking you, I just asked to to discuss your concerns first and you in fact started a thread on the talk page, that is the proper SOP when you have a COI. The template you refer to has been removes by Risker - FlightTime (open channel) 01:06, 16 July 2019 (UTC)

@Mking92124: Please start by assuming good faith, especially when your first (perfectly natural) reaction is to assume the other guy is acting arbitrarily. See WP:AGF. In fact the other editor was using a process we call Bold-Revert-Discuss: see WP:BRD. This process can appear hostile when you first encounter it, but it's not intended that way. It is instead a fairly efficient way to arrive at consensus. Please carry on. And thanks for your efforts. -Arch dude (talk) 01:19, 16 July 2019 (UTC)

@Mking92124: - I concur that this material is not supported by any of the citations. Wikipedia's policies would dictate if it is the case, it should be supported with a citation, otherwise removed. I'll inquire with FlightTime. Prodego ^talk 02:37, 16 July 2019 (UTC)

Templates are being disrupted

At the very bottom of this article (List of U.S. state representatives), I had four templates. For some reason, these four templates became "disrupted" by some intervening edits of mine. Now, the four templates are replaced with a blue link that says "#invoke:Navbox". This shows up four times, at the very bottom of the article page. Does anyone know what is going on, and what caused this? And how to solve it? Thanks. Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 03:59, 16 July 2019 (UTC)

@Joseph A. Spadaro: Why do you think they are disrupted? Did you try to use them alone in a separate page? Or just move them up, to the top of the page? Possibly you would notice something more... You can also try to remove some earlier templates, say, those for Tennesee through Vermont, and see what happens... --CiaPan (talk) 06:18, 16 July 2019 (UTC)

@Joseph A. Spadaro: The page is in Category:Pages where template include size is exceeded - see that category page for an explanation and some advice. You may have to split the page into two, unless someone can find a way to make the templates more efficient. -- John of Reading (talk) 06:49, 16 July 2019 (UTC)

"Disrupted" means ... the templates were working fine. Then, all of the sudden, they were not. So, I am not sure what happened in the interim to make them stop working. Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 06:54, 16 July 2019 (UTC)

When something no longer works like it used to, does not necessarily mean that thing is 'disrupted'. It's often some change in an environment, some external condition that prevents a good thing from working properly. Have you tried to light a match under water? It certainly wouldn't work - but does it mean the match is 'disrupted'...???

I gave you some hints already - did you try them? Did you look at an older version of your article? Did you try to place the templates in question alone in some new page, e.g. in some sandbox? Or move them to the top of the page? --CiaPan (talk) 07:16, 16 July 2019 (UTC)

John of Reading gave the explanation: See Category:Pages where template include size is exceeded. It is not currently possible to transclude the 49 state templates (Nebraska doesn't have one) in the same page. It fails even if everything else in the page is removed. There is no simple solution apart from splitting the list in two. The only reason a former version displayed fully is that it incorrectly transcluded senate templates for some states instead of the larger house of representatives. PrimeHunter (talk) 09:40, 16 July 2019 (UTC)

@PrimeHunter: Yes, I saw that answer. I suspected that kind of reason myself, even though I do not know detailed technical limitations. Anyway simple tests I proposed above would reveal these limitations immediately – actually those are what I tested, even before answering here. Such simple test make it clear whether the templates are actually broken ('disrupted'), or their use incorrect, or some external circumstances influence their work. That would allow Joseph to understand his problem deeper, and ask more precise question. Which in turn will give him a final answer much faster.
Doing some investigation oneself is often much more productive than waiting for someone else to find out what we did wrong. --CiaPan (talk) 10:06, 16 July 2019 (UTC)

Thanks, all. I decided to split the list into two: 25 states on the first list and 25 states on the second list. Not exactly ideal, but it seems I had no choice. Thanks for the explanations and advice / suggestions. Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 17:06, 16 July 2019 (UTC)

Change from colon to semicolon

I know it's trifling, but could anyone please tell me if it was all right to change the punctuation in this (now edited) sentence from a colon to a semicolon?

"On 30 October 2016, another magnitude 6.5 earthquake rocked Norcia, causing heavy damage to the city: among other buildings, the Basilica of St. Benedict was destroyed."--Thylacine24 (talk) 04:02, 16 July 2019 (UTC)

@Thylacine24: After the word "city", either a colon or a semi-colon is acceptable. But, they are saying two different things. If you use a semi-colon, you are essentially breaking it into two separate sentences (two separate thoughts). If you use a colon, you are saying "there was a lot of heavy damage to the city" ... for example, some of that heavy damage was the destruction of the Basilica. Either is correct, depending on what you are trying to say. I suspect that the original intent was the colon. Whereby the words after the colon offer an example of the heavy damage to the city. Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 05:10, 16 July 2019 (UTC)

Yes, I agree that the colon is better because the second part doesn't really stand on its own (as required for two balanced parts separated by a semicolon). I would put a full stop, but that's just my preference. Dbfirs 06:30, 16 July 2019 (UTC)

Sorry about this. I'll change it back. And of course, thanks. (Edited to add another spacing colon.)--Thylacine24 (talk) 14:05, 16 July 2019 (UTC)

You're welcome. I am glad that you decided to ask at this Help Desk. Thanks. Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 17:05, 16 July 2019 (UTC)

My password seems to have stopped working and I’m unable to reset it

I’ve had an account (The Font) since 2006, but this morning my password did not work. I tried to reset it, but was told: “There is no email address recorded for user "The Font".” I still have the e-mails from 2006 confirming that the account was registered to my e-mail address, and I still have the same address. I certainly haven’t deregistered the address. Can anyone advise me?

Thanks,

Grant Cribb — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A00:23C5:8382:B100:DC56:29CE:D6B6:BB6D (talk) 09:30, 16 July 2019 (UTC)

Are you saying that you are The Font (talk · contribs)? There is no "Email this user" link in the tools box on the left at User talk:The Font and that confirms that the account currently has no email address set. That means that recovering the account may be difficult. It's possible there is some record in the database of your early email address and there may be a path to recovery. However, the last edit for that account was in September 2018 and another possibility is to create a new account if you are sure you cannot recall the password. Johnuniq (talk) 10:03, 16 July 2019 (UTC)

Thanks. Yes, I am The Font (talk · contribs). And I’m pretty sure I can recall my password. That’s the thing. I’ve been logging in at regularish intervals over the past 13 years, and I would remember if I’d ever changed it. That, together with the disappeared e-mail address, is why I’m convinced that something odd has happened to my account. I would dearly love to recover it. (Is registering an e-mail address to an account the same as making it publicly available?) 2A00:23C5:8382:B100:CD83:5288:C347:B2F (talk) 09:24, 18 July 2019 (UTC)

Long-term harassment of our users on bs.Wikipedia

discussion about a different Wikipedia

Dear Main Administrators, We are a group of users from the Institute of Genetic Engineering and Biotechnology at the University of Sarajevo (INGEB), who participated in the creation of hundreds of articles on several Wikipedia, mostly at bs.wiki, en.wiki, sh.wiki, hr. wiki, sr.wiki. We are informing you that some administrators with bs.wiki (especially C3r4 and AnToni, KWiki, Elcobbola, Wolverine etc) have organized a hysterical action to prevent us from accessing editable and new articles. Among other things, they harshly reprimanded a distinguished academician (user Yahadzija), and (with the cooperation with known administrators of other wiki), they made a global ban on cooperation. They even called him imbecil and threatened "to break his bones" (see record and archive of this user). They have made valuable judgments in articles for which they are extremely incompetent, including the biographies of some significant axes in BiH. Since we know the identity of these users (from the Faculty of Science, Faculty of Mechanical Engineering and Mechanical Engineering of the University of Sarajevo), we are convinced that this is a personal animosity and a tendency to insult the environment. They, among other things, blocked even the INGEB server, proclaiming the stockpile of any potential user (for example, FalconBos Narasa etc). Due to an irresponsible attitude towards associates, bs.Wikipedia has lost its existing and discourages future users. This wiki is therefore the poorest of all wikis in the languages of the Balkans. Finally, please understand this intervention as an attempt to contribute to the transparency of the Wikipedia project and professional accountability towards a significant mission of the joint project. Sincerely yours Byelobrk (talk) 09:55, 16 July 2019 (UTC) In the above, are you referring to Yahadzija (talk · contribs) who is indefinitely blocked at enwiki and globally locked as a result of an RfC two years ago? Johnuniq (talk) 10:10, 16 July 2019 (UTC) Note: Please use correct user names. No 'Wolverine' was involved in the case. --CiaPan (talk) 10:43, 16 July 2019 (UTC)  Comment: I've been mentioned, but am not an "administrato[r] with bs.wiki," nor am I one on en.wiki. I have not referred to Yahadzija as an "imbecil" or threatened "to break his bones". While the entirety of your purports are disingenuous and untrue, accusations of personal attacks and physical threats--which notably lack diffs, or even links to pages on which they purportedly appear (which you know how to do per the linked INGEB above)--are the height of irresponsibility and intellectual dishonesty. I might also mention that Yahadzija, just this month, was editing with the sockpuppet Fuyecobbola (Fuyecobbola = Fuck you elcobbola). Harassment, indeed. Эlcobbola talk 15:15, 16 July 2019 (UTC)

@Byelobrk: This is the help desk for the English Wikipedia. It is not the forum for raising issues to administrators. Try WP:ANI, but it is not clear your issue is relevant here at all. Do you have a question about using or editing the English Wikipedia? -Arch dude (talk) 15:50, 16 July 2019 (UTC)

 Comment: The user as now been globally locked as sockpuppet of Yahadzija (talk · contribs). --MrClog (talk) 20:22, 16 July 2019 (UTC)

Chek in

Extended content
Check in the record of user Yahadzija and voting for his blocking!Бајеццобола (talk) 18:14, 16 July 2019 (UTC)

 Comment: User has been globally locked. --MrClog (talk) 20:32, 16 July 2019 (UTC)

To whom this concern

Extended content
EnWiki is the mother of all Wikipedias. To whom to turn? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Бајеццобола (talk • contribs) 18:07, 16 July 2019 (UTC)

Only in the sense that it was the first one, Бајеццобола. Each Wikipedia is an independent project, and none has any authority over any aspect of any other one. Sorry. --ColinFine (talk) 18:18, 16 July 2019 (UTC)

Бајеццобола I assume you are asking who to turn to regarding problems in another language Wikipedia. That would be Meta. ~ ONUnicorn^{(Talk|Contribs)}problem solving 18:24, 16 July 2019 (UTC)

 Comment: User has been globally locked. --MrClog (talk) 20:33, 16 July 2019 (UTC)

Question about topics/Own Thoughts in an article

I'm right now editing a researcher's BIO here in Wikipedia and would like to know if is ok to add his own thoughts in his BIO, is this ok or should I do this in a different way?

Best Regards

David Maluenda — Preceding unsigned comment added by David Maluenda (talk • contribs) 13:22, 16 July 2019 (UTC)

You can add them only if you cite a reliable published source that states those thoughts. Maproom (talk) 13:30, 16 July 2019 (UTC)

And, furthermore,David Maluenda, only if they are germane to something in the article that is based on what an independent source has published. Wikipedia is rarely interested in what the subject of an article says, does, or thinks, unless this has been reported by an independent source. --ColinFine (talk) 18:21, 16 July 2019 (UTC)

Getting Started – Contributing to Wiki articles

It seems you need to be a skilled programmer in order to contribute to a wiki article. Is this correct? — Preceding unsigned comment added by CitizenVA (talk • contribs) 13:46, 16 July 2019 (UTC)

Hi, you don't need to be a skilled programmer to contribute, I started by adding a sentence or two to articles and copying the formatting of what was already there. There are more complex aspects as you can see on this helpdesk, but you don't need to know everything to start. TSventon (talk) 14:14, 16 July 2019 (UTC)

Start with Wikipedia:Introduction 2. There's stuff that take some effort, but much is doable from the start. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 15:32, 16 July 2019 (UTC)

If you find wiki markup confusing (which is totally understandable, though as TSventon, you'll get the hang of it eventually), you can use the VisualEditor, which allows you to edit articles without having to learn the markup. More generally though, there's always help available for new editors who are still learning the markup (here at the help desk, at the WP:Teahouse, and through lots of policy and guideline pages) and, since anyone can edit Wikipedia articles, it's likely that any mistakes you might make will be |cleaned up relatively quickly without causing any major problems. – Arms & Hearts (talk) 15:38, 16 July 2019 (UTC)

The Painted Turtle

'The painted turtle' is not just a camp. The painted turtle is also the state reptile of Michigan. Millieeeeeee (talk) 14:23, 16 July 2019 (UTC)

Perhaps you failed to read the hatnote at the top of the article, or didn't follow the link? --David Biddulph (talk) 14:31, 16 July 2019 (UTC)

Template syntax highlighting

I have has problems with template syntax highlighting. While it works great on some pages it doesn't on other pages, seemingly without any pattern. Do anyone know why it's happening and how I can enable it manually when I want it? -- Trialpears (talk) 15:38, 16 July 2019 (UTC)

Do you mean the coloured text in the edit window? on pages containing javascript or other special content that's automatically. Anywhere else press on the pen next to "Advanced" in the toolbar. Note:This only works in source editor, not in the VisualEditor. 85.199.71.123 (talk) 18:24, 16 July 2019 (UTC)

chronicles of vladimir tod

the chronicles of vladimir tod the real author is not zac brewer, its heather brewer , it needs to be fixed you are allowing people to edit with false information — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.55.142.221 (talk) 17:27, 16 July 2019 (UTC)

Please read the article. Heather Brewer is the former name of Zac Brewer. -Arch dude (talk) 18:00, 16 July 2019 (UTC)

Page Verification

When will somebody verify my page "Arbor Investments" that I created. It currently says "Draft" and I am wondering when it will be officially posted on the web. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Cprassas4 (talk • contribs) 19:07, 16 July 2019 (UTC)

@Cprassas4: Hello, I cannot see that the page has been submitted for review. If you consider it is ready for mainspace you can request review by adding {{subst:submit}} to the top of the page. There are currently about 4,000 articles awaiting review and it can take up to 2 months (or more). Before you do submit, please read WP:NCORP, if you have not already done so, for notability guidelines in respect of companies. Please remove all external links from the text - convert into refs where appropriate - and anything that could be considered in any way promotional. (Please remember to sign your posts on talk pages by typing four keyboard tildes like this: ~~~~. Or, you can use the [ reply ] button, which automatically signs posts.) Thank you. Eagleash (talk) 19:17, 16 July 2019 (UTC)

How long can a paragraph be?

Could anyone please tell me what the maximum length of a paragraph should be, in the number of lines, assuming there is no picture next to the paragraph?--Thylacine24 (talk) 20:51, 16 July 2019 (UTC)

• Thylacine24, well, number of lines is not a good way to measure this, as people have different resolution/sized screens.

Potentially number of sentences, but I am not sure there is a specific policy on this.

Have you got an example of something that is too long? Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 20:57, 16 July 2019 (UTC)

Sorry, I didn't consider that. If you have an idea on the number of sentences, then please tell me. Anyway, at the moment, there are multiple paragraphs on the page "Science and technology of the Song dynasty" that are too long, or seem like they might be too long.

Edit: Here's an example of a paragraph I split at "In 1183..." (footnotes removed):

"During the Song dynasty there was also great amount of attention given to the building of efficient automotive vessels known as paddle wheel craft. The latter had been known in China perhaps since the 5th century,[85] and certainly by the Tang dynasty in 784 with the successful paddle wheel warship design of Li Gao. In 1134, the Deputy Transport Commissioner of Zhejiang, Wu Ge, had paddle wheel warships constructed with a total of nine wheels and others with thirteen wheels. However, there were paddle wheel ships in the Song that were so large that 12 wheels were featured on each side of the vessel. In 1135 the famous general Yue Fei (1103–1142) ambushed a force of rebels under Yang Yao, entangling their paddle wheel craft by filling a lake with floating weeds and rotting logs, thus allowing them to board their ships and gain a strategic victory. In 1161, gunpowder bombs and paddle wheel crafts were used effectively by the Song Chinese at the Battle of Tangdao and the Battle of Caishi along the Yangtze River against the Jurchen Jin dynasty during the Jin–Song Wars. The Jurchen invasion, led by Wanyan Liang (the Prince of Hailing), failed to conquer the Southern Song. In 1183, the Nanjing naval commander Chen Tang was given a reward for constructing ninety paddle wheel craft and other warships. In 1176, Emperor Xiaozong of Song (r. 1162–1189) issued an imperial order to the Nanjing official Guo Gang (who desired to convert damaged paddle wheel craft into junk ships and galleys) not to limit the number of paddle wheel craft in the navy's dockyards, since he had high esteem for the fast assault craft that won the Chinese victory at Caishi. However, paddle wheel craft found other uses besides effective assaults in warfare. The Arab or Persian Commissioner of Merchant Shipping for Quanzhou, the Muslim Pu Shougeng (who served from 1250 to 1275) noted that paddle wheel ships were also used by the Chinese as tugboats for towing."

Sorry if I'm getting worked up over nothing.--Thylacine24 (talk) 21:01, 16 July 2019 (UTC)

Thanks for posting the paragraph. I pasted it into Notepad and found that it seems to consist of two paragraphs, connected by three examples of the Chinese use of paddleboats.

• First paragraph ends with "each side of the vessel."

Examples:

• First example: "In 1135..."strategic victory."
• Second example: "In 1161...Southern Song."
• Third example: "In 1183...warships."

• Second paragraph: "In 1176...towing."

Hope this is both clear and helpful.--Quisqualis (talk) 02:09, 17 July 2019 (UTC)