Wikipedia:Help desk/Archives/2020 September 7

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September 7

Need help figuring out a new page

• Link: The Triangle of Knowledge

I created a new page following the guidelines but after moving it, I got the message "This sandbox is in the article namespace. Either move this page into your userspace, or remove the {{User sandbox}}template." Does anyone know what I should do? Thank you Medrine Nyambura (talk) 02:33, 7 September 2020 (UTC)

Medrine Nyambura, it looks like Eagleash did it for you already. —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 02:49, 7 September 2020 (UTC)

(edit conflict) @Medrine Nyambura: Hello, as the message implies you should remove the sandbox template. This can be found at the top of the source. In this case, I have done this. I have also tidied the first section a little. Need to mention that you cannot use Wikipedia as a reference (see WP:UGC) and also punctuation goes before refs. Main headings should be delineated by two equals signs (==) and sub headings by three or four if necessary. Don't leave gaps between refs and I might suggest a quick review of the manual of style. Cheers. Eagleash (talk) 02:53, 7 September 2020 (UTC)

where i can ask my question?

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

---

I asked a question but it went away. People are saying that i attacked but policy say i can ask question so i asked question but it got deleted too. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jarfow (talk • contribs) 03:35, 7 September 2020 (UTC)

For reference, see this ad hominem, this question about how to cheat NPA, and this bout of homophobia. —A little blue Bori v^_^v ^{Hasteur Hasteur Ha-- oh....} 03:45, 7 September 2020 (UTC)

Jarfow, you did make personal attacks, and as for where you can ask such questions, nowhere on Wikipedia. Meters (talk) 03:51, 7 September 2020 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Redirecting a page

I would like to nominate a page for redirection. The article Delta FM is pretty much redundant now. When the station closed it merged with Kestrel FM. This page then redirected to The Breeze, which now in turn should probably redirect to Greatest Hits Radio as The Breeze has also closed. Therefore, I would like to to nominate Delta FM to be redirected to Greatest Hits Radio. I have attempted to do the nomination myself but got very confused. Any help would be gratefully received. - Funky Snack (Talk) 08:36, 7 September 2020 (UTC)

I disagree with this proposal. The Delta FM article contains historical information which is not currently also present in the Greatest Hits Radio article (or elsewhere), and would consequently be lost by a mere redirect. I notice also that Kestrel FM now redirects to Greatest Hits Radio Berkshire & North Hampshire, which is apparently an ongoing entity separate from Greatest Hits Radio.

So, we have (at least) five variously related extinct and extant stations to deal with, which if merged as far as possible, would make for confusing reading. It seems to me that it is less confusing to maintain separate articles that include clear indications of these stations' historical relationships.

This is not to say that the four articles as they now are could not stand further clarification, perhaps by devising a diagram to show their relationships, and I could see an argument for restoring Kestrel FM as a separate article. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 2.122.2.158 (talk) 11:16, 7 September 2020 (UTC)

I think you're missing my point here. I was asking for someone to put in a RfD for me. What you say about Greatest Hits Radio Berkshire & North Hampshire being separate from Greatest Hits Radio, that's not true. It's a networked radio station. - Funky Snack (Talk) 15:39, 7 September 2020 (UTC)

In which case, ought we to not have (at least) two separate articles about it/them, but rather sections for the geographic subdivisions under GHR (eliminating GHRB&NH as a separate article)?

You are right that I missed your point, and I'm still not quite sure what it is, but since I have no particular interest in the subject matter (despite being a Hampshire resident) I think I'll bow out of further participation in this issue. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.1905} 2.122.2.158 (talk) 04:23, 8 September 2020 (UTC)

Just because something has ceased to operate it does not necessarily mean that it is no longer notable. There are plenty of such organisations (and in fact people ) who no longer exist which are still notable.. Some of them have passed on their work to other organisations because they have been taken over or because they were privatised ore sold off in bits. Some of them have just been wound up ,or in the case of people ,died. Would you say the following are no longer notable: Queen Elizabeth I, Britiish East India Company, British Railways, Royal Leicestershire Regiment, Czechoslovakia, Austin Motor Company etc? I think what is required is a statement in the Delta article to the effect that it merged with Kestrel. If Kestrel has an article of its own it should be blue linked in the Delta article, which is in fact what happened. Whether Delta was itself notable in the first place is a different question. So is whether a notable person or thing can become forgetable with the passage of time. Delta has been out of business for ten years. I think it would probably take longer than that. William Wyggeston (or Wigston) was notable in the early 16th century but he may or may not be notable now. (he was a wealthy wool merchant and philanthropist and was several times Mayor of Leicester) I haven't checked if he has a wikipedia page. Hope this helps.Spinney Hill (talk) 08:15, 8 September 2020 (UTC) I have just checked and he does have a page. I see he was also Mayor of Calais (then an English possession)Spinney Hill (talk) 08:55, 8 September 2020 (UTC)

Requesting you to review the page

Hello. I'm requesting wikipedia to review this page and publish it as an article. Thank you in advance. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft:The_Thayir_Sadam_Project — Preceding unsigned comment added by Pavan139 (talk • contribs) 10:20, 7 September 2020 (UTC)

@Pavan139: I have submitted the draft for review on your behalf. Notice the big yellow box at the top of the page. Victor Schmidt mobil (talk) 10:25, 7 September 2020 (UTC)

When you contribute something to Wikipedia, Pavan139, you are told: "Content that violates any copyrights will be deleted." I have deleted this draft, because a substantial percentage of it was copied from this page. -- Hoary (talk) 12:14, 7 September 2020 (UTC)

Mr.Hoary the link that you are mentioning was an event that was held in November 2019. The article I have drafted for is a band that was established in the year 2018. I myself provided the profile of the band to the organizers. Its my own original content and the content mentioned on that page is not copyrighted material. So i request you to restore the draft and publish it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Pavan139 (talk • contribs) 12:40, 7 September 2020 (UTC)

Hello, Pavan139. The material on that page has been published therefore it is copyright. If you are indeed the holder of the copyright, then you have the power to license it in a way that Wikipedia will accept it (see donating copyright materials; but I suggest you don't do that, because it is very unlikely to be appropriately neutral| in tone. Remember that Wikipedia is basically not interested in anything said by the subject of an article about themselves, or by their associates: it is only interested in what people who have no connection with the subject, and have not been prompted or fed information by the subject, have chosen to publish about it. So your material on the band is irrelevant to Wikipedia: you need to find some independent sources about it. You also need to read about editing with a conflict of interest if you hve not already done so. --ColinFine (talk) 13:36, 7 September 2020 (UTC)

new addition: Isobel Sarah Frye

Isobel Sarah Frye is a lawyer and social justice activist.

Frye was born in Cape Town, South Africa, on 8 December 1971, the second daughter of Jennifer, a high school teacher, and John Frye, an Anglican priest.

Frye spent her formative years in constant motion as her father was transferred to parishes in the Eastern and Western Cape. She became politicised in the 1980s primarily due to her father’s work. Frye joined NUSAS when she enrolled at UCT to study a BA Llb in 1990, in its last days.

Frye worked as an attorney at Walker’s Attorneys as a commercial litigator from 1996 to 2002, becoming one of the first two female directors. She then left and joined the Black Sash as their National Advocacy Manager until joining NALEDI, the research service NGO of COSATU in 2004.

Frye is the founding director of not for profit research organisation Studies in Poverty and Inequality Institute (SPII) in 2006. She is one of the foremost commentators on a universal basic income grant in South Africa. She has represented Community Constituency in policy negotiations at NEDLAC since 2002. Frye was appointed one of the first National Minimum Wage commissioners byt eh Minister of Labour in January 2019. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 197.91.136.239 (talk) 12:50, 7 September 2020 (UTC)

Hello, IP user. If you think Wikipedia should have an article about Frye, you are welcome to try creating one (but be warned that creating an article is one of the most difficult tasks there is for an inexperienced editor). Posting this material here will probably have no effect whatever. My suggestion would be to create an account, spend a few months improving existing articles and learning how Wikipedia works, and then, when you feel ready, read your first article and think about creating a draft about Frye - provided you can find the reliable published sources necessary to establish that she meets Wikipedia's criteria for notability. --ColinFine (talk) 13:39, 7 September 2020 (UTC)

Wikipedia page is redirected

Hello,

The wikipedia page for David Day, Canadian Writer has been redirected to "Reception of J. R. R. Tolkien From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 (Redirected from David Day (Canadian writer))" 

How can this be corrected?

David DayKingoftheWoods (talk) 14:58, 7 September 2020 (UTC)

This can be corrected if somebody writes a new article that indicates how WP:NPERSON is met. Victor Schmidt (talk) 15:08, 7 September 2020 (UTC)

(edit conflict) Hello, KingoftheWoods. Please look at the discussion at Talk:David Day (Canadian writer)#Notability. The editors discussing there found no evidence that you meet Wikipedia's criteria for notability, and so redirection was an alternative to deletion. If you dispute this, please present the three most relevant sources (remembering that they must be wholly independent of you, not based on interviews or press releases, reliably published, and contain significant coverage of you) for other editors to evaluate. --ColinFine (talk) 15:10, 7 September 2020 (UTC)

Hello, ColinFine My independent credible course are:

Official Publishers

https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/authors/2142156/david-day/ https://www.simonandschuster.com/authors/David-Day/141023395 https://books.google.ca/books?id=EIZI3TDTGTsC&pg=PA44&dq=david+day+doomsday+book+of+animals&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwithpyEv9frAhX9hXIEHVPeBBoQ6AEwAHoECAEQAg#v=onepage&q=david%20day%20doomsday%20book%20of%20animals&f=false

BC Book World - https://abcbookworld.com/writer/day-david/ Quill and Quire - https://quillandquire.com/nevermore-a-book-of-hours/ https://www.simonandschuster.com/books/An-Encyclopedia-of-Tolkien/David-Day/Leather-bound-Classics/9781645170099

I can supply many more links of sources if the publishers above are not credible.

Thank you for your help.

KingoftheWoods (talk) 16:46, 7 September 2020 (UTC)

Those are absolutely NOT independent sources, they are primary sources. Theroadislong (talk) 17:11, 7 September 2020 (UTC)

They are credible, KingoftheWoods, but most of them are not independent of you; and the two that are (the New Scientist and Quill and Quire reviews) are about your books, but say almost nothing about you. It follows tht an article about you based on those seven sources would have almost no content. --ColinFine (talk) 17:10, 7 September 2020 (UTC)

I am an author who has written over 50 books, translated into up to 20 languages (e.g. The Bestiary) with some of the most reputable publishers in the World. My books have been reviewed in the Times Literary Supplement, Time Magazine and Sunday Telegraph as well as LA Times and Detroit Free Press. Someone created my wikipedia page in 2003 and it suddenly disappeared to be redirected to a fan type page for the brilliant JRR Tolkien.

My university has a special collection of my books and awarded me a "distinguished alumni" award. My books have been in print and are still selling in the bookstores and on line. I am at a loss to prove validity for Wikipedia. My books are me. Please help?

KingoftheWoods (talk) 17:43, 7 September 2020 (UTC)

Also, in looking at my peers and contemporaries who have wiki pages, my page had more sources. I did not create my page, it was created at the beginning of Wikipedia and this year, I tried to rectify some information. Is my university a credible source, if so, maybe the information here will help https://www.uvic.ca/alumni/impact/home/awards/distinguished/2015-DA-bios/index.php

I read through the notability and would like you to reconsider putting my page created at the beginning of Wikipedia back on line KingoftheWoods (talk) 18:00, 7 September 2020 (UTC)

KingoftheWoods, It is not the number of sources cited, but their quality and content that matter. Merely because a person has published books, even many books, through major publishers does not make that person notable. Critical reviews published by independent reliable publishers can contribute to notability, as described in WP:NAUTHOR, but the reviews must themselves be cited, and secondary sources about the author are also usual. Also, please beware of the fallacy known here as Other stuff exists. Attempting to reason that some other article is in some sense not as good but is still around and therefore the article in question should not be deleted or redirected almost never works. Either the answer is that there is some relevant difference in circumstances, or that the other article has just not been nominated for deletion yet, but should be. Among the over 6 million articles here are at least hundr3eds of thousands that should be deleted. Each article must stand or fall on its own merits. DES ^(talk)_{DESiegel Contribs} 18:55, 7 September 2020 (UTC)

Hello Victor Schmidt

Thank you for answering the question. To clarify, you are saying that my reviews do not make me a notable WP:NAUTHOR because they are about the books and there is not enough about me. So it seems that it is not me that is notable, it is my books, I just happened to write them.

I did not have any input to the publication of the reviews in Time Magazine, New Scientist, Times Literary Supplement, Quill & Quire and New Scientist. These respected publications picked the books as their choice. Some of it was before the internet. These notable publications thought I was notable enough to review my books. Time Magazine listed me as the top 12 books that season. This is very upsetting not only to me but will be to the reviewers and to the publications concerned.

Also, If I understand you correctly, the person (I do not know who) that considered me notable in 2003 to publish the Wikipedia page should not have published the page? Since the page was published, I have written 12 more books and surely that adds to being a notable WP:NAUTHOR

All the citations that were on my website are available in hard copy and on line. There are many.

To go back to the original "ask" of supplying 3 creditable sources, will these do?

https://www.uvic.ca/library/home/home/news/current/david-day-lecture.php https://www.uvic.ca/alumni/impact/home/awards/distinguished/2015-DA-bios/index.php https://books.google.ca/books?id=EIZI3TDTGTsC&pg=PA44&dq=david+day+doomsday+book+of+animals&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwithpyEv9frAhX9hXIEHVPeBBoQ6AEwAHoECAEQAg#v=onepage&q=david%20day%20doomsday%20book%20of%20animals&f=false

I also have endorsements in writing from Michael Palin, and Margaret Attwood as well as the late Terry Jones and Ted Hughes.

Also the Duke of Edinburgh has written the introduction to my Doomsday Book of Animals.

Is there anything else to be done?

KingoftheWoods (talk) 19:37, 7 September 2020 (UTC)

I would strongly suggest you stop, Wikipedia is not a place for people to tell the world about themselves. There are plenty of social-networking sites like Facebook where you can do that, Wikipedia is a project to build an encyclopedia. This is explained at Wikipedia is not about YOU and Wikipedia:Autobiography. If you are actually notable in Wikipedia terms someone unconnected with you will write an article eventually. Theroadislong (talk) 20:48, 7 September 2020 (UTC)

(edit conflict) KingoftheWoods The first of those three is an announcement of a talk by you (I am assuming that you are in fact David Day). Bios that accompany such announcements are so commonly written by the speaker, and even when not, are so generally designed to puff up the speaker to encourage attendance, that they are not given much weight in notability decisions here. The alumni award may be of value, although it being given by an institution you are of course associated with reduces the value somewhat. The review of your book is probably of value. Under WP:NAUTHOR point 3, reviews of the books of an author mcan establish the notability of that author. This says: The person has created or played a major role in co-creating a significant or well-known work or collective body of work. In addition, such work must have been the primary subject of an independent and notable work (for example, a book, film, or television series, but usually not a single episode of a television series) or of multiple independent periodical articles or reviews. I have used this in the past to successfully establish notability, see Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/David Katz (author) and the related David Katz (author). But do note the disagreement expressed in the discussion. Having some independent reliable sources that discuss you in detail will help a lot. Note that celebrity endorsements are of little or no value, as are introductions to books by well known people. I would be willing to work with you on creating a draft to merge into the previous version of the article. Are you interested? DES^(talk)_{DESiegel Contribs} 20:51, 7 September 2020 (UTC)

Hello DES

Yes, I would be very very grateful for your help. Thank you for the offer. The above comments and notes were inserted to check if I could come up with credible sources. I did not know where to turn when someone told me that my page was deleted. Please let me know what you need me to do. KingoftheWoods (talk) 21:16, 7 September 2020 (UTC)

• Note: In case anyone wondered, there were broken user-links in several places above that may have prevented pings. I've taken the liberty of fixing them for archival purposes. —[AlanM1 (talk)]— 21:47, 7 September 2020 (UTC)

Continued on User talk:KingoftheWoods#Going forward on an article about you DES ^(talk)_{DESiegel Contribs} 22:40, 7 September 2020 (UTC)

How to turn off beta function

Hello, I added something to page User:DonGuess/common.js and now when I edit some bugs appear, how can I delete something from there?-DonGuess (talk) 15:26, 7 September 2020 (UTC)

• See this, the "Adding reply buttons" thread — Preceding unsigned comment added by DonGuess (talk • contribs) 15:30, 7 September 2020 (UTC)

Heavily Shilled Biography

I came across a biography that seems to be heavily shilled and aggrandizing. When I tried to add a recent news development about racist tendencies it was deleted by another party. Most of the information is not sourced and seems rather fanciful (he invented the hydrogen car while in high school?) but attempts to question it are blocked. Can it be submitted for review by a larger group? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roger_E._Billings — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.170.226.250 (talk) 16:19, 7 September 2020 (UTC)

Hello, your addition of allegations of racism was unsourced and misplaced between another statement and its reference. When it was removed (rightly but without edit summary) you edit warred to replace it. (I've removed it again). You should not do either of these things. Please do not restore it without a good citation. The statement about the hydrogen car is referenced although I am not sure how reliable the source may be. Eagleash (talk) 16:39, 7 September 2020 (UTC)

[1] is the source that I put when referencing the racism. I'm not sure what you mean by "unsourced", as the San Francisco Chronicle is a major newspaper. In fact, the reference is still there. Look at Citation #3.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.170.226.250 (talk) 21:07, 7 September 2020 (UTC)

The page is now 'fixed'. The original edit placed the source but not directly against the text it was supposed to support. The initial reverting anonymous editor did not remove it when deleting the disputed text; probably because it was not clear what its purpose was. Now that the wording has been better placed and the references are supporting inline, the issue is resolved. Eagleash (talk) 10:23, 8 September 2020 (UTC)

eXTREME FRUSTRATION USING YOUR GUIDELINES

I STARTED A SIMPLE PROCESS. I SAW LISTING FOR A RICHARD J. KRAMER AND I COPIED IT EXACTLY. YET AFTER SO MANY PRECIOUS HOURS NAVIGATING THROUGH YOUR LAYERS... I WAS THEN TOLD THAT MY DRAFT WAS TO BE DELETED.

YOUR SO CALLED EXPERTS EXIST BUT THEIR IS NO WAY TO CONTACT THEM BY PHONE OR EMAIL. YOUR OTHER APPROACH ARE LINES AND LINES OF MATERIALS THAT WOULD TAKE ME DAYS TO READ THROUGH. IS THERE A SOLUTION?? Wikipedia draft Richard T. Kusiolek Richard T. Kusiolek (born July 30, 1941 in Cook County Chicago, Illinois) is an American Author, Business Technology Consultant, and Digital and Print Media Publisher and Editor. Contents Biography Early Life Career Personal Life See Also References Biography Early life Kusiolek was born in Chicago Illinois. He graduated from Northern Illinois University and earned a Bachelor of Science in Management in 1968. In 1975, He earned a Master’s in Business Administration from San Francisco State University in International Business. His ancestors were Cossacks, a group of predominantly East Slavic-speaking Orthodox Christian people, became known as members of democratic, self-governing, semi-military communities, originating in the Pontic steppe. Career From 1995 to 2006, he worked in Silicon Valley of Northern California in Marketing Management for a wide range of technology companies. From 2006 to 2014, he was an adjunct professor of management for the Graduate Business Departments of San Jose and Hayward State Universities. He was a faculty member of the University of Phoenix in Marketing and Economics. In 2014, he launched GMC Stream, a global military communications digital and print magazine. Personal Life He has one son and two daughters who are professionals in health care and journalism. See Also Published Novels on Amazon.com References System for upstream broadband transmission. Alternative Uses of Emergency Communications Networks Driving New Market Digital publisher Aerospace and Defense. Science Research in Technology. Richard Theodor Kusiolek (talk) 17:18, 7 September 2020 (UTC)

Richard Theodor Kusiolek, it's most likely because it looks like a fake article. While a light bio on your userpage is fine, it should not look like an article itself, especially if you're writing about yourself. —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 17:55, 7 September 2020 (UTC)

Richard Theodor Kusiolek, Taking a look at your deleted article, it was very promotional, and Wikipedia is not for promotion. Also, you seem to be writing about yourself, which we strongly discourage. CaptainEek ^{Edits Ho Cap'n!}⚓ 18:10, 7 September 2020 (UTC)

@Richard Theodor Kusiolek: I think you have a few misconceptions about Wikipedia. To avoid your needing to read a bunch of stuff, here is a brief summary of salient points. First, this is an encyclopedia. It has articles about subjects that we consider notable. You do not appear to be notable by our definition, so Wikipedia should not have an article about you. Please do not put any more effort into creating an article about yourself unless you are certain you meet our notability guidelines, which you can read at WP:N. If you want a shorter explanation, look at WP:CSMN. If you do not meet our notability guidelines, you should find another venue for your article, such as Linkedin. Next, all of "experts" (about 100,000 individual editors in the last 30 days) are volunteers. None of us have any incentive or desire to assist you via phone or e-mail. Each of us has spent those "days of effort" that you wish to avoid. We spent that time in order to learn how to build an encyclopedia, not in order to help people write about themselves, which we discourage. See WP:AUTOBIOGRAPHY. If, after reading, you do decide that you are notable, then please come back here and we can assist you with the next step. -Arch dude (talk) 18:16, 7 September 2020 (UTC)

Furthermore, if you continue in your abusive and insulting tone, you risk being blocked from editing. JIP | Talk 23:27, 7 September 2020 (UTC)

Calm down, JIP. This guy is frustrated of the guidelines, and as a first-timer, the person probably couldn't express frustration in a way that complies with Wikipedia standards. @Richard Theodor Kusiolek:, if you need more info, just contact me. You won't last long if you rant here.... :) Regards, Jeromi Mikhael ^(marhata) 23:42, 7 September 2020 (UTC)

References

Branham High School

In the article about Branham High School it states that Branham was opened in 1970 by the Campbell Unified School District, I attended school there from September of 1967 until I Graduated on 13 Jun 1969, previously I attended high school at Leigh High another school in the Campbell district — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:204:DA80:45E0:8DC0:2905:9E19:A5F4 (talk) 21:45, 7 September 2020 (UTC)

Do you have a reliable, independent source that supports your claim? If you do you may want to bring this up over at Talk:Branham High School. —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 22:43, 7 September 2020 (UTC)

 Done I've corrected the page per the Smare cite, and added another cite. —[AlanM1 (talk)]— 22:53, 7 September 2020 (UTC) Updated —[AlanM1 (talk)]— 23:14, 7 September 2020 (UTC)