Wikipedia:Help desk/Archives/2023 March 18

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March 18

Kyiv

Happy Saturday, 18 March, everyone. On the Kyiv page, I have ordered the positions, clockwise from top, of the six monuments. I realised, however, that the fourth monument is missing, so I left a "note" to indicate the absence of that monument ("insert here the fourth monument clockwise from top"). JackkBrown (talk) 01:17, 18 March 2023 (UTC)

I've replaced it with the correct caption. Thebiguglyalien (talk) 01:33, 18 March 2023 (UTC)

can you please tell me what is the longest article that is published in WIKI.

can you please tell me what is the longest article that is published in WIKI. hello, I was wondering what article that is published is the longest one. I see that a few are quite long and i was curious as to what one is the longest one!? thank you. Brian 2601:602:900:15E0:6CFA:E23C:4503:B0A7 (talk) 02:01, 18 March 2023 (UTC)

Special:LongPages. Drmies (talk) 02:02, 18 March 2023 (UTC)

Science

Quantum physics 2405:205:150A:3E25:A0CB:1321:EE9B:1BB0 (talk) 02:44, 18 March 2023 (UTC)

Did you have a question about using or editing Wikipedia? If you have questions about science you can read Quantum physics or ask at WP:RDS RudolfRed (talk) 02:48, 18 March 2023 (UTC)

How to create a template with a dropdown selection for a param.

See: cite web; where in Visual Editor the parameter "url-status" has a menu with a few selectable options, not a text field. I want to do this to combine the functionality of a few templates (UR Libraries, MIT Libraries, Vanderbilt Libraries, etc.) into one template where there will be a dropdown field for which institution's library you would like to access from. First, I ned to know how to have a field with only a few selectable options.

Thanks! BhamBoi (talk) 03:49, 18 March 2023 (UTC)

@BhamBoi: See Wikipedia:TemplateData#Adding suggested values for parameters. PrimeHunter (talk) 04:35, 18 March 2023 (UTC)

Thanks! That’s super helpful! Cheers to you— BhamBoi (talk) 04:46, 18 March 2023 (UTC)

Pat Boone's page has incorrect information

The article says his name at birth was Patrick Charles Eugene Boone. (It used to say "Charles Eugene Patrick Boone.) Pat's real name on his birth certificate is Charles Eugene Boone. I read this years ago but had the opportunity to verify this fact with Pat face to face in November 2022 on a TCM cruise. I told him both Wikipedia and IMDB had it wrong. On page 11 of "Pat Boone's America -- 50 years" Pat tells how his mother expected to have a daughter. When she had a son, she named him after family members but ALWAYS called him "Pat" -- and so did everyone else. BigBooneFan (talk) 05:54, 18 March 2023 (UTC)

Hello, BigBooneFan. The best place to discuss this is on the talk page Talk:Pat Boone. Please be aware that Wikipedia requires that all information in an article be verifiable from a reliable published source. Neither your recollection of reading it, nor what he said to you, is enough: you need a published source. ColinFine (talk) 11:28, 18 March 2023 (UTC)

advice please I'am new to wikipedia

hello I am new to Wikipedia and i would like some help/advice on the best way to get started. I am the local snooker and billiards historian and i would like to publish on Wikipedia on how the league started and to publish all the league tables and competition winners throughout the 113 years it has been going would it be best to do everything on Word or Publisher then copy and paste or do everything on the Wikipedia many thanks Bernie Barker147 (talk) 06:06, 18 March 2023 (UTC)

Hello @Bernie Barker147 and welcome to Wikipedia. Some general advice: if your goal is to make edits that can "stick", you need to know how to add references correctly, this is essential. WP:TUTORIAL has good guidance on how. You can create your personal Wikipedia:Sandbox to prepare text in and experiment on what works. You can also edit articles directly, but "learn to walk before you run" applies. If other editors disagree with your edits, WP:COMMUNICATE. And when you edit articles, use Help:Edit summary to help other editors understand what you are doing.

See also WP:SELFPUBLISH, WP:SELFCITE and WP:EXPERT. WP:SNOOKER may be of interest. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 07:47, 18 March 2023 (UTC)

Hello, Bernie Barker. It sounds as if you want to record your original research. This is laudable, but I'm afraid that Wikipedia is not the place to do it. See original research. ColinFine (talk) 11:30, 18 March 2023 (UTC)

indeed. We don't generally care about cataloguing local leagues. However, as a big cue sports editor, we do need a lot of updating to our pool and billiards articles. If you have any published books or resources from history that might be of help, please let me know. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 11:41, 18 March 2023 (UTC)

@User:Lee Vilenski Are there any external wikis for cue sports? I found localwiki.org and this [| quora discussion] , but nothing specific on cue sports. If the OP set it up, where would they link it on wiki? Wakelamp d[@-@]b (talk) 00:24, 19 March 2023 (UTC)

@Wakelamp, per WP:ELNO #12, nowhere. Userpage perhaps, but you know, advertising. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 07:36, 19 March 2023 (UTC)

Thank-you for the link. The link states "Open wikis, except those with a substantial history of stability and a substantial number of editors. Mirrors or forks of Wikipedia should not be linked." It looks like [LocalWiki]] may pass the requirements based on List_of_LocalWikis I only checked that it was a non-profit and open source and active. Wakelamp d[@-@]b (talk) 08:43, 19 March 2023 (UTC)

Old discussion: Wikipedia:External_links/Noticeboard/Archive_15#LocalWiki_as_a_RS_for_EL? Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 09:04, 19 March 2023 (UTC)

The consensus isn't very clear. I have no attachment to localwiki.org, but have a similar concern to the IP editor on that discussion about not losing information "such as a local newspaper, which arsuch as a local newspaper, which are increasingly disappearing)". The solution that I was suggesting was if this was to do with a local region, then have a link at an article referring to that local region. Wakelamp d[@-@]b (talk) 22:05, 19 March 2023 (UTC)

In edit source mode, the text does not scroll.

I rewrote the entire text of the wiki article Ban Pa, Phitsanulok in my sandbox.
Replacing the original article text requires me to copy the new text from the sandbox.
Normally in edit source mode I highlight from the top left corner of the text and downwards.
Dragging the mouse to the end of the whole text.
But in the new wiki environment, the highlighted text doesn't scroll, but stops at the bottom of the monitor window.
What is the solution for this?
SietsL (talk) 06:11, 18 March 2023 (UTC)

SietsL, you don't mention a phone, so I'll assume that you're using a computer. When editing the source-of-the-copy page in source mode, move the cursor anywhere in the edit window, and, for most operating systems, press Ctrl-A Ctrl-C. Open the target-of-the-copy page in source mode, delete however much you want to delete, and press Ctrl-V. That's for Linux or Windows. However, if your OS is either OS X or macOS, then do the same but with the command key (perhaps labeled with a square with a circle at each corner) rather than the control key. -- Hoary (talk) 08:16, 18 March 2023 (UTC)

@SietsL I see that you worked out how to make the transfer. However, when you did so to reach this version, you included unnecessary stuff that was also present in your sandbox. I have now removed that so that Ban Pa is now in a better state. Mike Turnbull (talk) 12:53, 18 March 2023 (UTC)

Non Factual Misinformation

There is an article published by someone calling Donald Trump’s personal airplane “Trump Force One” this is not an actual, factual name and is used as a similarity to “Air Force One” reserved especially and only for the current President of The United States. This article encourages non-factual bias of an elected official and is not an honest, truthful description of a random airplane for an actual President. That is a position for the highest elected official and the specially designed, uniquely manufactured vehicles solely for the purpose of safe travel and protection of the President. This is inflated priority to suggest Trump has such similarly important vehicles for similar reasons. He is no longer POTUS, so he no longer enjoys the title or the Air Force One, Beast, Helicopter, White House or any of its uses. please delete this page on your site called “Trump Force One”. Thank You, Christy HunterJetSetChristy (talk) 08:07, 18 March 2023 (UTC)

JetSetChristy, I think this suggestion raises a number of questions, among them: (i) Just what does "actual, factual name" mean? In particular, (i.a) Searching in Google Books for the string "trump force one" brings a lot of hits in what appear to be published books. Should these be ignored, and if so, why? (ii) Just what is the relationship between the "actual, factual name" (whatever this means) of a concept, and the most appropriate title of a Wikipedia article on that concept? Incidentally, it had never occurred to me that "Air Force One" was "solely for the purpose of safe travel and protection of the President". -- Hoary (talk) 08:28, 18 March 2023 (UTC)

"Air Force One" is not a specific aircraft, it is the call sign of any USAF plane which is carrying the president. Likewise "Marine One", "Navy One" and "Army One". If the vice-president is onboard, then the same terms are used with "two" instead. The special call signs alert ATC and other traffic. Martin of Sheffield (talk) 08:54, 18 March 2023 (UTC)

JetSetChristy, I also don't know what you mean by saying that one name "is used as a similarity to" another name. "The Beatles" were so named because of the Crickets, because of beetles, and/or because of beat. And they broke up half a century ago. But I don't think that anyone argues (A) that they were/are the Crickets, beetles, or a kind of beat, or that they still exist; or (B) that the fact that they weren't/aren't the Crickets, beetles, or a kind of beat, or that they no longer exist, is grounds for deleting the article about them. -- Hoary (talk) 09:09, 18 March 2023 (UTC)

@JetSetChristy: Wikipedia has only one absolute requirement for the existence of an article: Notability, as we define it (WP:N). Trump Force One is notable by our definition, so it should have an article. Its notability is attested by the multiple independent articles in reliable sources. Notability is permanent: once notable, always notable. The points you make can be added to the article if they are supported by reliable sources. The existence of the article is not a judgement by Wikipedia of anything except the subject's notability. -Arch dude (talk) 14:20, 18 March 2023 (UTC)

Not published

Why has my post not been published for other to find online Wintersisters (talk) 09:40, 18 March 2023 (UTC)

Wintersisters You have made roughly the same post on your user page, your user talk page, and your sandbox. None of these pages are part of the encyclopedia and are not searchable by outside search engines. Your user page is meant for you to tell about yourself as a Wikipedia editor. Your user talk page is meant for communication with you. Your sandbox is meant for editing tests and drafting. The best place to draft and submit a new article is Articles for Creation. Be advised that your text is not acceptable as an article, as it is completely unsourced. An article about a person must summarize what independent reliable sources with sigificant coverage have chosen on their own to say about the person, showing how they meet the special Wikipedia definition of a notable person. Writing a Wikipedia article is the most difficult task to perform on Wikipedia; we usually recommend that users first gain experience and knowledge by editing existing articles in areas that interest them, as well as using the new user tutorial to learn more about Wikipedia.

It appears that you are writing about yourself; this is highly discouraged, please see the autobiography policy. We are interested in what others say about you, not what you say about yourself. If you want to tell the world about yourself, that is what social media is for. 331dot (talk) 09:48, 18 March 2023 (UTC)

How do you cite a police report

How do you cite a police report StrongALPHA (talk) 12:02, 18 March 2023 (UTC)

StrongALPHA Generally police reports should not themselves be cited, as they are a primary source; it would be more appropriate to cite independent reliable sources that report on a police report. However, you don't describe the cirumstances of what it is you want to do. 331dot (talk) 12:05, 18 March 2023 (UTC)

It´s just a FBI file which is itself cited in a book, which other editors will not allow claims to be taken from because they don´t like its publisher Autonomedia. StrongALPHA (talk) 14:35, 18 March 2023 (UTC)

@SA, it would help if you'd provide links to where these discussions are being held. You're saying which other editors will not allow claims to be taken from because they don´t like its publisher Autonomedia. Can you show us where this discussion is happening so we can assess what's going on? Valereee (talk) 20:13, 18 March 2023 (UTC)

Question

Good morning. In the paragraph 'Lineages', should the quotation marks be removed or left? Sanguszko. JackkBrown (talk) 12:13, 18 March 2023 (UTC)

JackkBrown You seem to be discussing a specific article, but don't say what it is. You may ask here, but the best place to ask about a particular article is on its associated talk page (for example, Talk:Joe Biden for the Joe Biden article). 331dot (talk) 12:14, 18 March 2023 (UTC)

@331dot: in the previous comment I provided the link to the article I refer to. JackkBrown (talk) 12:18, 18 March 2023 (UTC)

JackkBrown Well, I missed that one. Apologies. I've made it a normal internal link instead of a url. 331dot (talk) 12:21, 18 March 2023 (UTC)

@331dot: no more help needed, I fixed it by removing the quotation marks. JackkBrown (talk) 13:38, 18 March 2023 (UTC)

George Talbot 6th Earl of Shrewsbury

Under childre, Henry, final lime reads Elizabeth Rayner survived her husband "remarried" Thomas Holcroft. The editor has confused father and son there were 2 Thomas Holcrofts,she only married one, see Wikitree for Elizabeth (Reyner) Holcroft for souces 86.3.57.56 (talk) 12:24, 18 March 2023 (UTC)

Wikitree is not a reliable source, as a wiki. But otherwise, I think the whole section is pretty much unreadable and might fare better as a family tree, like Template:Family tree, or trimmed to only include the children who themselves have Wikipedia articles. Sungodtemple (talk • contribs) 12:39, 18 March 2023 (UTC)

What's the best way to deal with long-term abusers / constantly returning vandals?

Sorry if this isn't the right place to ask this question.

Over my few days' tenure of recent changes patrolling, I have come across quite a number of vandals, who just won't stop coming back to make the same edits in masses to a large variety of articles again and again. They'll 'farm' new accounts or 'obtain' a bunch of IP addresses to edit from and evade several blocks.

I have looked at the WP:LTA page and it appears to be a place for severe long-time disruptors, and reports there are more of a reference guide to show the history of the LTA.

I really don't know what's the best way to deal with this type of situation when the next wave of it comes around. Do I just report every single user to AIV as they come?

Sometimes the number of targeted articles is so big that it's overwhelming to request protection on every single one of them. And you'll never know what they'll target next.

I've made several reports at ANI before, they don't seem to garner much attention. Well I've had one problematic user whose main/primary IP range become blocked long time.

They'll never stop coming too. When it seems and feels like it's all over, two weeks later suddenly they are back. Once again using new accounts/IPs to get around blocks.

Is there an investigation / monitoring going on behind the scene (i.e. not on any public noticeboard) when it happens?

I'm asking for advice from admins and experienced users.

I will say that the vast majority of cases, just one block is enough to stop disruptive behaviour. Sometimes the warning templates actually even work. I'm talking about persistent disruptors here.

Thanks guys, signing off, AP 499D25 (talk) 13:14, 18 March 2023 (UTC)

Focusing mainly on your second question, I would say that yes, the depth of investigation and monitoring will increase as the disruption increases. In some cases you will see different admins turning up, checkusers reverting edits, different block reasons, protections, global locks performed by stewards, and other subtle changes. What you're looking for is the depth and number of admins increasing. More eyeballs means fewer bugs. This isn't usually the result of some secret cabal holding internal discussions, although you can sometimes spot these on admin talk pages, but it's an increase in numbers and independent expertise. Now, sometimes expertise doesn't always work 100%, so do remember this: yes we get a lot of repeat customers, but all vandals go away eventually. Should you report them? Well, if they're not blocked, sure. -- zzuuzz ^(talk) 15:23, 18 March 2023 (UTC)

To resolve this issue, I would recommend just AIV-ing any new vandal socks, as they will eventually get bored and leave. How long have they been around? Sungodtemple (talk • contribs) 23:42, 18 March 2023 (UTC)

Some of them have been around for mere months at least, some others 8+ years. For example there's a guy who keeps changing the names of hurricane articles to "Bad Motherf*cker", who's been doing it for years now. Though they actually have an LTA case page here. AP 499D25 (talk) 10:18, 19 March 2023 (UTC)

I want to use the Primacy of Youtube, Odysee, Vimeo, etc.

Simply to describe the views of someone as they are saying their own views in their own terms and cite that. StrongALPHA (talk) 19:58, 18 March 2023 (UTC)

@SA, you can do that, within certain limitations. What is it that you're trying to add to what article, and using what source? Valereee (talk) 20:05, 18 March 2023 (UTC)

@StrongALPHA To quote what ColinFine often says, "Wikipedia is not interested in what the subject of an article says or wants to say about themselves, or what their associates say about them. Wikipedia is only interested in what people who have no connection with the subject, and who have not been prompted or fed information on behalf of the subject, have chosen to publish about the subject in reliable sources."

In slightly plainer words: The views of some random person are not very useful here. Info in an article should be about the subject, written by someone else, published by an outlet which has a reputation for fact-checking. Like Valereee, I am curious what the article is, and the source. David10244 (talk) 07:42, 19 March 2023 (UTC)

Well, it depends. Wikipedia might very well be interested in what a person says about themselves. If they're saying "I am a member of Far Hills Baptist Church" or "I believe in UFOs" or "I have three sisters" or "Today is my 50th birthday", sure. If they're saying "I am one of the leading thinkers in the Libertarian Party", not so much. Valereee (talk) 13:04, 19 March 2023 (UTC)

@StrongALPHA The policy is given at WP:ABOUTSELF and does allow use in the cases specified at that link. Mike Turnbull (talk) 17:47, 19 March 2023 (UTC)

Well, Valereee, that's true. I could say "today is my 29th birthday", but that would make me younger than my daughter... David10244 (talk) 06:55, 20 March 2023 (UTC)

Yes, and when we have what are normally non-controversial facts in a statement by self that are disputed by reliable sources, we don't accept them from the self-source. But if a normally non-controversial fact isn't dubious or disputed, we can accept it from a self-source. That often includes biographical details and statements of belief, position, values. If Beyonce posted on twitter, "Today is my 28th birthday", we would not use it, as it's highly dubious. If Bo Burnham did, we would. In fact, we did. Valereee (talk) 13:33, 20 March 2023 (UTC)

dark mode

Can you guys add a dark mode please? 666999joe (talk) 21:39, 18 March 2023 (UTC)

Hi 666999joe Please see Wikipedia:Dark mode - best wishes - Arjayay (talk) 21:44, 18 March 2023 (UTC)

Vanishing map on Federative units of Brazil infobox?

This edit of mine caused the clickable map not to show, even after correcting the formatting of the map's name in curly brackets. Full disclosure: I moved the clickable map to the bottom of the infobox.

Is there some sort of "dominance" being exerted by File:Brazil, administrative divisions (states) - en - colored.svg, the image I added, such that the clickable map cannot appear within the infobox? The clickable map is no substitute for a readable map, but they are quite complementary.-- Quisqualis (talk) 22:06, 18 March 2023 (UTC)

I can't answer your question. But I find the clickable map easier to read than the non-clickable map. I do find the non-clickable map prettier. Maproom (talk) 23:01, 18 March 2023 (UTC)

They are both pretty in their own way. My situation was that I wanted to look at a map of the states of Brazil to get a visual overview of size, location, names, as I have some, but quite limited, knowledge of Brazilian political geography. The clickable map was pretty fiddly. If I wanted to see the names of the coastal northeastern states, well, I could click or hover, I guess, though that wouldn't help me see the shape of any one of them. The standard-style map gives a pretty immediate overview, and it enlarges well, which the clickable map does not. I'd like users to be able to conveniently have a go at either one.-- Quisqualis (talk) 23:11, 18 March 2023 (UTC)

I haven't looked at this in detail, but I can see two problems in your edits just looking at the diffs.

1. Usually an infobox image parameter wants just the name of the file, not a wikilink or "File:".
2. Curly brackets are for WP:transclusion, usually for a template, which is a different operation from linking to a file. {{Brazil labelled Wap}} is transcluding a template called Template:Brazil labelled Map, which doesn't exist.

You'll need to look at the documentation for Template:infobox subdivision type to be certain what kind of arguments it wants, but I would be amazed if it wants a transclusion. I would expect it to want the name of the map file. ColinFine (talk) 23:14, 18 March 2023 (UTC)

@ColinFine did you mean to type "Wap" above? David10244 (talk) 07:44, 19 March 2023 (UTC)

No, I didn't. How did you guess? ColinFine (talk) 13:32, 19 March 2023 (UTC)

Strong are my psychic powers. David10244 (talk) 06:51, 20 March 2023 (UTC)

Wait -- the text still says "((Brazil labelled Wap)) is transcluding a template called Template:Brazil labelled Map, which doesn't exist." It's that "Wap" that I saw. Are you going to correct it, or will you let my mild OCD bother me?  :-) I can handle it either way! David10244 (talk) 06:53, 20 March 2023 (UTC)

{{lang}}: what is it good for?

All {{lang}} does, visibly, is put the content in another font, which I can do as easily (and more concisely and with less violence to other format syntax) with ''…''. Big deal. Does it also do something useful like add the page to an invisible Category:Pages containing Italian text? —Tamfang (talk) 23:11, 18 March 2023 (UTC)

@Tamfang: According to the template docs, "The purpose of this template is to indicate that a span of text belongs to a particular language. It often makes no visible changes to the text but can prompt web browsers to use a more appropriate font or screen readers to use a particular kind of pronunciation and so on. " See Template:Lang#Rationale for more reasons to use it. RudolfRed (talk) 23:14, 18 March 2023 (UTC)

See Template:lang#Rationale. ColinFine (talk) 23:16, 18 March 2023 (UTC)