Wikipedia:Ireland disambiguation task force/International usage

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International usage lists for "Ireland" and "Republic of Ireland"[edit]

A list of usages collected from outside Great Britain and Ireland. Please contribute. Exclude FIFA / UEFA and similar sporting references because these refer to the soccer team and not the state.

Discussion[edit]

Note- The RoI pushers aren't arguing the name of the country; they're arguing that the descriptive (Republic of Ireland) helps lesson confusion over the usage of the name Ireland, for less familiar viewers. GoodDay (talk) 23:25, 18 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
For some of them, yes: but it's not that simple, though. I would argue that creating confusion over what "Ireland" is, is the order of the day for certain people who want a ROI article and a political "Ireland" article to coexist, which happens now - hence the vote for 'no change'. For some people it is less over the name of 'ROI', than it is for keeping an "Ireland"-as-island article that includes Northern Ireland in a political sense (with all the forked info from both country articles). That is the "Ireland" some poeple want to see. There are many angles here. --Matt Lewis (talk) 23:41, 18 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Note- The Ireland pushers merely wish to see the country article Republic of Ireland, given it's proper name Ireland. Thus require the island article Ireland to be changed to (for example) Ireland (island). GoodDay (talk) 23:35, 18 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I have also found 10,000+ refs on "Google" to Oireland, which should also be described somewhere on the "Ireland" page. It is a humorous (or not) attempt to render the name as pronounced in Hiberno-English, which is my native language.Red Hurley (talk) 15:52, 19 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

How exactly is this section meant to further the debate when it is aimed at demonstrating facts which no one disputes: namely that Ireland is the official name of the Irish state and that the official name is widely used internationally for official purposes. Blue-Haired Lawyer 17:17, 19 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I agree with Blue-Haired Lawyer. The list is one-sided purely because nobody else can be bothered going through this "fact-finding" exercise yet again. It didn't help before and it won't help now. It's putting off people who might have a genuine interest in consensus-gathering because of its "pointy" nature. Scolaire (talk) 17:24, 19 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Would anyone object if I sub-paged the list below, like this usage tables? --Matt Lewis (talk) 17:30, 19 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I'd be delighted :-) Scolaire (talk) 18:02, 19 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I have no objection to moving the section, but I still believe how the article and this section are written says quite a lot. For instance, to say that "FIFA/UEFA and similar sporting references because these refer to the soccer team and not the state" is pure conjecture. The UK excepted, sport teams use the common name of their country. By the same logic "Italy" is just the name of a soccer team which coincidentally has players who come from the "Italian Republic". Why isn't there a section on the use of Ireland to mean the whole island? What about the GAA, Rugby and cricket teams? Why is it that the framing of the argument is against those of use in favour of keeping the Republic of Ireland article as it is. Blue-Haired Lawyer 19:09, 19 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
To be honest I haven't even read them - Red King started the section, but most of the examples were placed in by an IP who is a banned user. I'm so sick of IP's (especially this user's) that I'm not interested anymore. I wouldn't worry about deleting any examples that are not up to scratch - the IP is dynamic, so it will no longer exist to complain. --Matt Lewis (talk) 19:22, 19 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Red King does not seem to have been on for a couple of days, so I'll sub-page it now, and leave him a message. --Matt Lewis (talk) 19:36, 19 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Fair enough. Blue-Haired Lawyer 23:26, 19 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

So, another inconvenient fact that is properly supported by citations is squirreled away where nobody can see it. What political agenda do you insist on pushing that makes you right and every international body, every independent source wrong? The name of the state is Ireland. "Republic of" is a description that asserts that it is not a monarchy. The British habit of referring to Ireland by any name but its own is just that - a British habit. Wikipedia is a world encyclopedia, not a British one (though even Brtitannica manages to get it right!).--Red King (talk) 19:03, 23 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

But let's at least be conistent and look at the articles Italy and France. The constutional names of these two states are Repubblica Italiana" (Italian Republic) and République Francaise" (French Republic). The Italian peninsula contains three states: the Italian Republic, San Marino and the Vatican City State. The French 'hexagon' contains two states: the French Republic and Monaco. So explain to me please, what makes Ireland so different? --Red King (talk) 19:03, 23 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

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