Wikipedia:Peer review/1989 (Taylor Swift album)/archive2

1989 (Taylor Swift album)

Previous peer review

The album that made the so-called Princess of Country into a global pop sensation. It would be interesting if the article could be promoted to FA status, thus I've listed this under PR. Any comment would be very much appreciated, HĐ (talk) 01:13, 3 August 2020 (UTC)

Comments I've read up to the 'Songs' section, and have the following comments:

• "primarily about Swift's recurring theme of broken romance, present more mature and wistful perspectives." - unclear (what's meant by "Swift's recurring theme " and what are the perspectives more mature and wistful than?)

• reworded

• " in response to Big Machine's transaction of her masters" - the grammar is off here

• removed (kept in the "Release and promotion" section)

• "accompanied by impact on country radio" - ditto

• reworded

• The grammar is also awkward throughout most of the para starting with 'Swift had been known as "America's Sweetheart"'

• rewrote the whole para

• "She confirmed their collaborations" - wouldn't Swift or her label have hired them?\
• "Swift realized she had "been making '80s synth pop"" - but the article previously states that this was Swift's explicit goal when planning and preparing the album?
• "and that the new songs would not impact country radio" - I'm not sure what this means
• "Swift told Entertainment Weekly two months following the release of "Sweeter than Fiction" that there was a high chance of her and Antonoff working together again because of his 1980s-styled production." - is this needed?
• "Swift described 1989 as her "first documented, official pop album" that was inspired by pop music of the 1980s" - this is stated repeatedly. State it once.
• More broadly, the article repeatedly describes how this was a pop not a country album, which gets rather repetitive. It would be best to cover this once.

• I restructured the whole part

• "Artists from the period, such as Peter Gabriel and Annie Lennox, inspired Swift to make a synth-pop record " - was Swift inspired by them, or did they contact her to encourage her to go down this path as the wording currently implies?
• The sources still all seem to be limited to news stories and similar. Nick-D (talk) 01:14, 9 August 2020 (UTC)

• @Nick-D: Hi, thanks so much for taking your time to review the article. Regarding quality of the sources, it's a real challenge to find academic papers (via Google Scholar) that have actual depth to add some substance to this article. Given that the album was released in a digital era, I'm personally convinced that most commentary, if available, would be published onto ready-to-read news articles or similar online blogs. (I did read through several papers on Google Scholar discussing the album released after 2016, but they all seem to reiterate what's already included in the article...)

• I'd suggest using those sources. Nick-D (talk) 09:18, 13 August 2020 (UTC)

• Nick-D; Most sources (https://scholar.google.com/scholar?start=10&q=%22taylor+swift%22+%221989%22&hl=en&as_sdt=0,5) are about distant matters to the album (i.e. social context, Swift's pubic image, or just the English language theory in general, instead of focusing on 1989 itself). I did a rather exhaustive review of the literature available, and while they are interesting, they do not offer a broader analysis regarding the album's overall themes. I really think Google Scholars article, while indeed valuable, should not be given undue weight, especially when this album was released in an era where scholarly opinions can be posted online with less restrictions (probably there will be some useful papers in the future, but to my knowledge so far, most do not add substantial depth). On another note, I hate to rely on "other stuff" rationale, but the FA 4 (Beyoncé album) (which I more or less based this article on) has a brilliant prose and is well-detailed while not relying on Google Scholars papers, HĐ (talk) 06:44, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

• A good practice for FAs is to trawl really quite extensively for quality sources. Nick-D (talk) 11:15, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

• I understand completely. However, as I said, existing scholarly sources discuss subject matters that are of distant relations to the album. HĐ (talk) 12:47, 18 August 2020 (UTC)
• Nick-D; Update I've added three papers, including two published on journals, and one M.A. thesis. The majority of sources available are Bachelor's theses, which violates no original research policy on Wikipedia (even though the sources are quite interesting). No deeper insight into the album's themes and concepts, but more perspectives on Swift's public image and promotion tactics for the album, HĐ (talk) 01:29, 20 August 2020 (UTC)

Comments from Aoba47

• I have done a Google Scholar search, and found some potentially useful material. This journal article (here) discusses 1989 in terms of "paratextual feminism", and how Swift used the album's voice memos to assert her identity as a female artist. I do not have access to the full article, but you could request for a copy here or contact the original author directly via email.

• This article (here) argues that 1989's releases shows Swift becoming "zany", which the writer defines as "an ability to quickly pick up new skills, by constant transition, performance and impersonation, and above all, by an incessant ‘doing’". The writer also talks about authenticity and the subsequent backlash against her being inauthentic (with an interesting connection made to "Look What You Made Me Do" at the end).

• This M.A. thesis (here) may be beneficial as it discusses how Swift used social media to engage with her fans and promote 1989. I found a few articles that analyze the rhetorical devices used in the album, from figurative language (1 2), associative meaning(3), idiomatic expression (4), and declarative sentences (5). I do not find these articles to be particularly helpful, but you could use them in a brief sentence to discuss how scholar analyzed these elements of the album.

• The following article (here) is primarily about Swift and Kanye West, but the writer does make a point on 1989, specifically with these two sentences: (At this point in her career, Swift was considered a teen pop star of considerable talent whose message was nevertheless lightweight. On her next album, she would need to "grow up," and nowadays she is praised for being at the cutting edge of postmillennial pop with her most recent album 1989). That is an interesting point in how Swift's image shift with this album. There was also a paper presented at a conference (here) that discusses 1989 and even includes an interesting discussion on Ryan Adams' cover of the album.

I think that it would be beneficial to include these sources in the article. Aoba47 (talk) 19:49, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

Aoba47 Thanks for your input. I had checked the sources you mentioned before and found them unsubstantial. However, I now think maybe I could add a piece or two into relevant sections like Release and Promotion or Retrospective commentary. HĐ (talk) 01:34, 19 August 2020 (UTC)

• Thank you for the response. I just wanted to propose some ideas. Aoba47 (talk) 01:59, 19 August 2020 (UTC)

• Aoba47 Just a small question; I'm not sure if theses for Bachelor's ([1] [2]) qualify as trustworthy sources. What do you think? HĐ (talk) 03:01, 19 August 2020 (UTC)

• This is discussed in WP:SCHOLARSHIP. I just wanted to raise those sources to your attention. The question about their reliability and use on Wikipedia would be better for a more experienced editor, but if I had to answer either way, I would say no to using them on Wikipedia. Aoba47 (talk) 03:19, 19 August 2020 (UTC)

• Thanks for pointing that out, I almost forgot about no original research policy on Wikipedia. With that in mind, a large part of the sources on Google Scholars seems to be unfit for the article, but I've added a few after exhaustive examination of the sources. Thanks again for your suggestions, HĐ (talk) 03:29, 19 August 2020 (UTC)

• I am glad that I could help, and I agree with your assessment. Aoba47 (talk) 04:37, 19 August 2020 (UTC)