Wikipedia:Peer review/John W. Stevenson/archive1

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John W. Stevenson[edit]

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John W. Stevenson served as governor of Kentucky and represented the state in both houses of Congress. He was a Confederate sympathizer who nonetheless opposed secession. Later in life, he was elected president of the American Bar Association. Although it was already GA-class, I found some additional resources and did a complete rewrite on this article. I think it now stands a good chance of passing FAC, but would like to solicit additional feedback. If it is indeed a defensible FAC candidate, it will become part of my quest for a Governors of Kentucky featured topic, which by my count is now only 6 FAs from becoming a reality. Acdixon (talk · contribs) 15:20, 8 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Review by User:Churn and change[edit]

  • Lead
    • First sentence: I think the first line should state he represented Kentucky in both houses, was its governor, and was president of the American bar association. That automatically makes him a politician and a lawyer, without our explicitly saying so.
      • I've used the present construct in nearly all of my Kentucky governor articles, but I don't have a real problem with changing this. Done. Acdixon (talk · contribs) 14:41, 16 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
    • The wikilinks have to be fixed. Kentucky should not be linked per WP:OVERLINK; it is commonly understood to be a US state. Governor should not be linked since the word is being used in its usual sense. Mississippi should not be linked; nor should county attorney. Internal improvements, probably should not be just linked, but should be described in a word or two (internal infrastructure spending?) and then linked. Constitution should not be linked; constructionist view should be, with perhaps a word or two describing what it is.
      • Kentucky was removed per the above edit, but I have linked it numerous times in the past without incident. For every person who says linking state names is overlinking, there's another that insists that "city, state" designations in the infobox should be replaced with "city, state, USA", so I don't necessarily agree with your assertion about Kentucky or Mississippi and prefer to keep them linked. "Governor" was linked because it links specifically to the "Governor of Kentucky" article, which is now more clear with the previous edit. "Internal improvements" was still the term being used in textbooks when I was in high school a decade and a half ago, so I'm disinclined to replace it with a less common term. Not sure why "constitution" shouldn't be linked, but I do agree with you on "constructionist". Didn't realize we had an article on that, but I've linked it and tried to provide a little more in-line context as well. Acdixon (talk · contribs) 14:41, 16 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
    • Infobox: shouldn't it have the presidency of the American Bar Association. Sounds important. If the box is too long, then probably the resting place and relations may be taken out.
      • I was mainly thinking about political offices, but I like this suggestion. Done. Acdixon (talk · contribs) 14:41, 16 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Early life and family
    • No need to link "President." Andrew Stevenson already linked in the lede (technically one could repeat it here, but looks like the para has quite a few links already).
      • Again, I disagree about President, and I prefer to link items on first mention in the lead and in the body. Acdixon (talk · contribs) 14:41, 16 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
    • Ambassador to the UK (in brackets) to explain the old title would help.
    • Administrative committee instead of vestry might be better. The word does conjure images of the room.
      • Sloppiness on my part; I think the source says "vestryman", which I've substituted here. Acdixon (talk · contribs) 14:41, 16 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
    • On second occurrence, use just Madison instead of James Madison.
    • Do we have any information on his wife other than the name? Seems quite a cipher in the article.
      • Not that I have encountered. That seems pretty standard for the minor politicians I've written about. Acdixon (talk · contribs) 14:41, 16 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Political career
    • His dad, I presume, was a democrat? Should be mentioned somewhere; shouldn't have to follow a Wikilink to find out.
    • County attorney wikilinked a second time here. No need to wikilink Kansas. No need to link civil war again.
    • The Dictionary of American Biography attribution and what it supports (most notable speech) seem best left out. If there are other sources reporting this as a notable speech, then the attribution is not needed; if not this seems an opinion best left to the reader's judgment.
      • Well, the information on his House career was pretty sparse, so I thought that this would help explain that. If his most notable action was a speech, the topic of which was pretty common at the time, it would show that he didn't play a pivotal role in much of anything. Also, since the Dictionary of American Biography is independently notable enough to warrant its own wiki-article, I thought it might be more credible than a general opinion. If, after reading my logic, you still think it needs to go, I won't quibble over it. Acdixon (talk · contribs) 14:41, 16 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
    • The source doesn't exactly say he stayed out of public life to avoid being arrested. It says he kept away from the war and free of Federal prisons.
      • How is keeping away from federal prison different from avoiding getting arrested? Acdixon (talk · contribs) 14:41, 16 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
    • "Like many Kentuckians, Stevenson was sympathetic to the southern states' position in the lead-up to the Civil War." That leaves unclear what that position was. The source says: "Imbued with a strong feeling for the Union, characteristic of Kentuckians, he called upon the Republicans to recede from the extreme policies of their platform and help to preserve the common country." That the Kentucky position was the general southern states' position is a bit of synthesis. What the source states seems somewhat dubious (doesn't seem written from a neutral point of view). Either we should drop this or find more scholarly references for the statement.
      • What about "Like many Kentuckians, Stevenson felt Republican positions on slavery in the lead-up to the Civil War were too extreme."? Acdixon (talk · contribs) 14:41, 16 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
    • "He lost the election of 1861." I presume the election was in 1862, or more likely 1860? In the second case, the speech was made after his defeat, and the sentence sequence needs to reflect that.
      • From other articles in that time period, I seem to remember something about there being special congressional elections in 1861, but I'm not sure why. If it was these elections, it would not be surprising that Stevenson was defeated, since pro-Union legislators won every Kentucky congressional seat except the First District in those elections. However, the source is ambiguous as to whether these were the regular elections (which were probably in 1860, or these special elections). Acdixon (talk · contribs) 14:41, 16 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
    • He supported the democratic candidate in 1860. Might be worthwhile adding that was against Lincoln. Nevertheless, he just toed the party line, which doesn't seem notable. Also, the chronology is mixed up. This sentence should be moved up, before the speech in 1861.
      • I fixed the chronology, but his support of the Democratic ticket probably was more of a result of his friendship with Breckinridge than any party loyalty. Remember, there were four major candidates in that election, and the only think Kentuckians agreed on, regardless of party affiliation, was that most of them wanted nothing to do with Lincoln. Acdixon (talk · contribs) 14:41, 16 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
    • No need to link "States' rights." The link points to the more modern meaning of the word anyway.
    • "bitterly denounced": the source says "condemned" and so we can probably paraphrase as just "denounced."
    • taxation of "the meager assets of most blacks yielded little revenue for their educational needs." Too closely mirrors the wording in the source, with no quotes. Rephrase since there is no particular difficulty in doing so.
    • What is "eleemosynary institutions"? Whatever it is, we need a simpler word.
      • As I have seen it used, it seems to encompass both penal institutions and facilities for the mentally and physically handicapped. Since those are pretty diverse, I thought I'd try to simplify it this way. If you think that isn't appropriate, I'll try to rephrase. Acdixon (talk · contribs) 22:11, 16 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
    • The last para of "State matters" needs some context. Who were the "regulators"? Why were they violent? The paragraph actually goes on to mention violence against them by the Rowzees, not by them.
      • I thought we had an article on the Regulators, but it doesn't look like we do. There isn't a lot of context given in the source, but they were apparently mobs of vigilantes. I've added "vigilantes" to clarify. Acdixon (talk · contribs) 22:11, 16 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
    • No need to link "duel." Common-enough word. Hides the relevant links. No need to link "constitution" again, nor "internal improvements."
      • De-linked "duel". The others are first mentions in the body. Acdixon (talk · contribs) 22:11, 16 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
    • Need to explain back then the Kentucky senator was elected by the legislature, not directly by the people. This is explicitly mentioned by one of the sources' pointing out he didn't have to face a public electorate again after he became governor.
      • Added a few words, but for those who don't realize that senators are popularly elected now, it might seem strange to call attention to the election by the state legislature. Acdixon (talk · contribs) 22:11, 16 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
    • Was he the minority leader in the Senate? Probably should be mentioned. Looks like he spent 4 years as governor and the usual six as senator, but we have just two short paragraphs on what he did in the senate, and many sections on what he did as the governor.
      • From our wiki-articles, it seems Democrats were indeed the minority party during Stevenson's Senate service, but floor leader is the more general term. I added that the Democrats were the minority caucus. Acdixon (talk · contribs) 22:11, 16 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Later life and death
    • Obituary characterizations (tertiary source per WP) tend to match WP:PEACOCK and are best not pulled in. So the reference to his speech as president of the ABA should be taken out unless other secondary sources mention it.
      • I have found little about his term as ABA president at all; I thought this gave his service some flavor, but I wouldn't have a problem removing it either. Acdixon (talk · contribs) 22:11, 16 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
    • American Bar Association already wikilinked once. No need to link "executor" and "will."
      • ABA is first mention in the body, but I'll concede the other two as being common enough to de-link. Acdixon (talk · contribs) 22:11, 16 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Ancestors
    • What's the source for this tree?
      • This was a project by Spacini (talk · contribs) for the Kentucky Historical Society. Pretty sure the HTML comments in the section say it was assembled from public record, but you could ask Spacini for more details.
  • References
    • The references need to link to the corresponding entries in the bibliography. See, for example, William Robinson Brown.
      • Is this the purpose of the {{sfn}} template? I've seen it mentioned, but I don't know anything about it, and I wasn't aware that it was required. Acdixon (talk · contribs) 22:11, 16 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
    • Google books URL for Clark and Lane. The pages can be previewed free.
    • Better to add wikilinks for the names of the publishers rather than for the cities.
  • General
    • Some of the photos are of peripheral relevance. Could instead include more photos of the subject. The one on page 51 of the Clark and Lane book, for example. I assume it is all public domain.
      • I'll look at Commons, but most of the ones of Stevenson himself are just nondescript portraits. I thought it was better to mix in some other characters tied to his life. Acdixon (talk · contribs) 22:11, 16 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
    • The state governorship dominates the article, though that is just four years of his life. The senate part probably can be expanded.
      • Most of my sources are about Kentucky and the governorship. So far, I haven't found many relevant to the other parts of his life. (I got the University of Kentucky library to photocopy the memorial from the ABA and send it to me. It's very rare.) It is tough because John Stevenson is a common name. Obviously, you seem to have found a few more, which you left on the talk page. I really appreciate that, and hope you will drop any additional ones there as well. I have access to EbscoHost and ProQuest, but not Questia (I'm signed up for this round of free accounts) or JSTOR (looking forward to some free accounts from them as well). I also missed out on the last round of Credo accounts. If you've got emailable sources, use the "email this user" feature, and I'll send you an email address you can send to. Acdixon (talk · contribs) 22:11, 16 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
    • Pretty much nothing on personal life. Where were his children educated? Anything notable his wife did. Any hobbies, interests.
      • Well, as you can see from the footnote, there is disagreement on who, exactly, his children were. There is some indication that his son, John, was a doctor, but no idea where he was educated or practiced. Acdixon (talk · contribs) 22:11, 16 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
    • The take on his personality is a bit confusing. A politician who is bad at communicating is all that the article mentions. But that seems to be in the context of the post-war election. He did win from Kentucky before the war.
      • Unfortunately, I haven't run across much that can help with this, but don't read too much into him being a bad communicator. In many parts of Kentucky, simply being the Democratic candidate was qualification enough for most voters. If he didn't face any opposition in the primary, he might have gained the office nearly by default. Wish I had some info on those early elections. Acdixon (talk · contribs) 22:11, 16 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
    • The article is well-cited and encyclopedic in tone, style, viewpoint, content and organization. To get to FA, I think the major thing is to pull in more info on his role as senator and lawyer, and, if available, as a person.

 

Churn and change (talk) 00:06, 16 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Responded to some comments above. Gotta run for now, but will respond to the rest later. Thanks for the review.

Acdixon (talk · contribs) 14:41, 16 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

No problem on the Wikilinks; it is a tradeoff. I think you should see how most reviewers lean down the road. The notable speech issue: there is one other speech of his, the one opposing the KKK act of Grant, which seems to be cited more in secondary sources. I have dumped some references on this (and some other stuff) on the article's talk page. Great article. Churn and change (talk) 15:40, 16 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Just realized I shut everything down this morning without saving the changes I referenced! I've made them and others now, and responded to your comments above. I had difficulty finding sources on Stevenson compared to many of the other articles I've worked on, but you seem to have dug out some I missed, so maybe I just wasn't diligent enough. In particular, I thought there would be more about his Senate career, since he apparently served as Democratic floor leader, but so far, Gamm is the only source to even mention that. Acdixon (talk · contribs) 22:11, 16 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Ok, a few quick points as my final points for the review. Don't know whether {{sfn}} is required, but it definitely helps one get to a citation in two clicks. Right now a search of the last name is required in the (admittedly sorted) bibliography. The word "eleemosynary institutions" would lead most people to a dictionary where they are just going to see "related to charity." Might be better to just describe the intended idea. There is an obituary by the ABA, and I think it is the same as the Vaux one, though in this publication it is unsigned: [1] p. 128. Would be good to add this URL to the Vaux citation if it is the same. I think the material here is more reliable than the Morton one; that article has other errors in plenty and was written much after the event (this being a perhaps unusual case where being closer to the event makes a source likely more accurate). I have access to JSTOR and you can message me or post at WP:WikiProject Resource Exchange/Resource Request if you need a JSTOR article. Meanwhile I dumped some public domain documents (a long address to the governor from another guy in an investigation, and the full text of his speech as the ABA president) on Commons (Category:John W. Stevenson has the stuff); they may be behind paywalls but are definitely PD. Yeah, it is difficult to get data on his non-Governor days; I think the article has most of what is available in secondary sources already. Churn and change (talk) 00:24, 17 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comments: reading through now, have a few comments on the first few sections. Nothing major, just some smoothing needed for the wording.
  • "He was elected lieutenant governor in 1867, but Governor John L. Helm's death, just five days into his term, elevated Stevenson to governor. He subsequently won a special election to finish Helm's term in 1868. He opposed federal intervention in what he considered state matters but insisted that blacks' newly granted rights be observed and used the state militia to quell post-war violence in the state." Three consecutive sentences here start with "He...", I'd suggest a little more variation. Same situation in the second paragraph of "U.S. Representative".
  • "He was again one of Kentucky's delegates to the Democratic National Conventions in 1848, 1852, and 1856.[2] He served as a presidential elector at the 1852 and 1856 conventions." How about: "He was again one of Kentucky's delegates to the Democratic National Conventions in 1848, 1852, and 1856, serving as a presidential elector in 1852 and 1856."?
  • "After graduation, he read law with his cousin, Willoughby Newton, who would later serve in the U.S. Congress.[6] He was admitted to the bar in Virginia in 1839." Who is "He" in the second sentence?
  • "accepting future Kentucky Governor William Goebel as a law partner." Is the capitalization of "Governor" correct here? I can never remember the rule for that.
    • Me, either. I usually capitalize it when it immediately precedes a person's name, but I'm not sure that's right. Acdixon (talk · contribs) 01:21, 26 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Stevenson was defeated for reelection in 1861.[2] For the duration of the war, he stayed out of public life in order to avoid being arrested as many other Confederate sympathizers were.[2]" You might want to note the dates of the war's start and end, for our non-American readers.
    • Good suggestion. We tend to forget about our non-American friends, don't we? Acdixon (talk · contribs) 01:21, 26 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • "He urged the immediate restoration of all rights to ex-Confederates and denounced Congress for failing to seat a portion of the Kentucky delegation because they had sided with the Confederacy.[18] He championed" Some minor repetition with the beginnings of these sentences.
    • Not sure I'm seeing the repetition, but I did modify the beginning of the second sentence. If that doesn't fully address your concern, let me know. Acdixon (talk · contribs) 01:21, 26 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • More to follow later. The article is mostly fine. Mark Arsten (talk) 16:04, 24 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
    • No hurry; I'm out of town for most of this week, so I'm not responding as quickly as usual, either. Acdixon (talk · contribs) 01:21, 26 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Later in October, he dispatched the state militia to Mercer County" Who is "he" in this sentence? Otherwise this section looks great. Mark Arsten (talk) 17:34, 26 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
    • Good catch. That's a place where I put in some extra information without looking at how it affected what was already there. Fixed. Acdixon (talk · contribs) 18:23, 26 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Alright, finished my read through, overall this is very well written, not much else I can say (other than sorry if my copyedits were harmful at all). Mark Arsten (talk) 18:17, 26 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
    • Thanks as always for the review. I'll drop you a line when this lands at FAC. I suspect John Adair will go there, first, however. Acdixon (talk · contribs) 18:23, 26 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
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