Wikipedia:Peer review/List of Manchester United F.C. managers/archive1

List of Manchester United F.C. managers

I've listed this article for peer review because I believe that it is very close to FL standard. I do believe the lead might be a bit wordy, and should probably be splintered off into a "Managerial history" section, but other than that, I'm quite confident that it only needs a little touching up before it gets promoted to FL status. Thanks, - PeeJay 01:45, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

• There's a lot of statements in the lead that will probably need references. Those that jump out include-

Chapman received a telegram from the Football Association on 8 October 1926 informing him of his suspension from management for the rest of the season; no reason was given. [done, PJ]

Matt Busby, who had just turned down the opportunity to join the coaching staff at Liverpool [done, PJ]

United allowed Busby the responsibilities he requested [included in previous ref, PJ]

McGuinness struggled in his new post, however, and Busby was convinced to return for the second half of the 1970–71 season [done, PJ]

It was soon discovered, however, that Docherty was having an affair with the wife of the club's physiotherapist, and he was immediately fired, [done, PJ]

but after his disastrous start to the 1986–87 season [done, PJ]

Since his appointment, Ferguson has been credited with the distinction of making some of the most shrewd purchases in Premier League history, with the signings of Peter Schmeichel and Eric Cantona, each for less than £1.5m. [done, PJ]

Manchester United are also one of only a few top-flight teams never to have had a manager from outside the United Kingdom and the Republic of Ireland. [should be apparent from the table that they've never had a foreign manager, PJ]

Very true but maybe add a reference that other top-flight teams are managed by foreigners whereas United haven't. Unless I'm just being pedantic. Peanut4 02:27, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

• This sentence also appears to be incomplete

While Busby was in hospital recovering from the injuries he sustained in the air crash, his assistant, Jimmy Murphy. [fixed, PJ]

• Otherwise I think it's excellent and don't see why the lead / history section is too wordy. Peanut4 01:58, 16 November 2007 (UTC)
  • I believe I've dealt with all of thoe original concerns. Cheers for the speedy comment, man. - PeeJay 02:21, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

Comments from The Rambling Man (talk · contribs)

Hi Peejay, good work so far. Funnily enough I was looking at this just yesterday thinking about pushing it to FL so you beat me to it! Right, on with the comments...

• "The most successful person ..." et seq seems oddly positioned - you talk about the secretaries back in the day picking the team, then mention Fergie, then head back to Mangnall again. [fixed, PJ]
• I really like your synopsis of the managerial history but it still lacks serious citation in my opinion. Specifically...
  • "...after succumbing to a bout of pneumonia." [done, PJ]
  • "...the club's highest position during his reign being 12th." [done, PJ]
  • "...also left Busby fighting for his life." [done, PJ]
  • "...as a lack of respect between him and some of his best players caused him to resign with three years still to run on his contract." [done, PJ]
  • "...behind Liverpool, who have had eighteen managers in their history, and West Ham United, who have had just twelve." [done, PJ]
• "no fewer than four " so "four" then? [done, PJ]
• Presumably you could wikilink to Busby Babes? [done, PJ]
• "he had won the FA Cup for the first time in 15 years." - which year please? [fixed, PJ]
• "...credited with the distinction of making some of the most shrewd purchases ..." - who credited him with this distinction? [cited, PJ]
• If you have a notes column, why are refs [8] and [19] not in it? [I have no idea what you mean by that, PJ]
  • You have a notes column for each manager. You have a couple of references next to the manager's name instead of in the notes column. Seems inconsistent to me. Does that make more sense? The Rambling Man (talk) 11:01, 17 November 2007 (UTC)
• Pity the Man Utd navbox is slightly different width to manager navbox. [Yeah, nothing we can do about that without re-doing the Man Utd navbox, but that's a different task entirely, PJ]

That's about it. Let me know what you think and when you take it to WP:FLC... All the best! The Rambling Man 09:33, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

Dealt with all issues. Let me know if you have any more comments. – PeeJay 01:59, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

• A script has been used to generate a semi-automated review of the article for issues relating to grammar and house style. If you would find such a review helpful, please click here. Thanks, APR _t 11:50, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

comments from Struway2 (talk · contribs)

• Why have you decided not to wikilink seasons, FA Cup final years, etc?
• Too many sentences starting However,, where the However doesn't add anything. I'd lose the Chapman, definitely Munich and possibly Docherty ones.
• Too many replacement or replaced by. Vary it a bit, successor, followed, the next...
• Lal Hilditch in the prose, Clarence Hilditch in the table, which do you prefer?
• Crickmer. You don't really want to effectively repeat first spell/stint as manager, I'd just replace the His first stint as manager with It
• Busby. Try Before the war ended, and lose the , rather (so you get more responsibility ... than).
• his retirement from managing proved to be permanent is awkward, try He retired permanently from management that summer and was succeeded...
• O'Farrell. Your reference doesn't mention lack of respect and says he was sacked, not resigned.
• Ferguson. Move Aberdeen forward in the sentence, winning the Scottish First Division title with Aberdeen three times in six years, and twice finishing as runner-up.
• credited with the distinction... who by? your ref is a celebration of Ferguson's best signings, doesn't mention anything about Premier League's shrewdest signings.
• a feat that no other manager has managed, try achieved, and it probably should be referenced.
• despite a number of promises of retirement, he still continues to manage the most successful English club of the last 15 years sounds a bit celebratory. The promises of retirement need referencing.
• Last sentence. To be honest I'd lose it. I'm not sure MUFC being 3rd out of the current PL teams in terms of low managerial turnover is interesting. Also, it's not really maintainable. No-one's going to want to check through the details of every promoted team to make sure they haven't had fewer full-time managers (whatever the definition of that is), even where the information's available to compare like with like. Also, it says in your lead that MUFC have had 18 full-time managers, which wouldn't put them behind Liverpool's 18?
• Why is Albut's information unavailable? did he start mid-season, or something?
• do you need the little dashes in the empty honours boxes?
• I'd separate the two general references into a references section separate from the footnotes, but if you don't want to, they do need a line each.

That's more than enough ;-) I much prefer this style of list, where an informative introductory section and the table complement each other, well done. cheers, Struway2 (talk) 20:54, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

I believe I've dealt with your concerns adequately. If you have nothing more to add, I hope I can count on your support when I take this article to FLC. – PeeJay 22:50, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

Probably if I reviewed your list now, I'd ask whether you needed to link all the standalone years to yyyy in football (soccer). My preferred style for linking is to link seasons where mentioned, and to link the year of major finals to the corresponding wiki article, but I don't link to yyyy in football unless there's a good reason for doing (reorganisation of divisions, something like that). How much an editor chooses to link is a matter of personal style, which is why I asked why you hadn't linked anything, rather than saying you should. Hope that explains my point of view, I only intend to offer suggestions, not instructions.

Also, I've taken the liberty of adding n/a to Albut's start date, with a non-displaying dts(1878) so the column still sorts properly, hope that's OK. See no reason why I wouldn't support at FLC. cheers, Struway2 (talk) 08:53, 24 November 2007 (UTC)