Wikipedia:Peer review/Oxford United F.C./archive2

Oxford United F.C.

Previous peer review

• A script has been used to generate a semi-automated review of the article for issues relating to grammar and house style; it can be found on the automated peer review page for January 2009.

This peer review discussion has been closed.
. I've listed this article for peer review because i have made several improvements to it since the failed FAC and would like to know if people think there are other things which could be added before i take it to FAC again.

Thanks in advance, Eddie6705 (talk) 18:08, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

Comments from ChrisTheDude (talk · contribs)

Here's a few comments to be going on with :-)

• In the references, the full names of FCHD and RSSSF should be shown, not the initials
  • Done
• They're very hot on reliability of sources at FAC these days, I would expect you to be challenged to prove the reliability of at least the following:
  • oxkits.co.uk
    • Removed
  • historicalkits.co.uk
  • rageonline.co.uk
    • Removed
  • spiritus-temporis.com
    • Removed
  • members.fortunecity.com/shaynes/welcome.htm
    • Removed
  • conferencegrounds.co.uk
    • Removed
  • footballcrests.com
  • napit.co.uk
    • Removed
• In the lead, write League Two, not League 2
  • Done
• Also show the league the club currently play in as the Conference National, not simply the Conference (which refers to all three divisions)
  • Done
• "The team was created as a way to keep the cricketers fit during the winter break" - what cricketers?
  • Done
• In the "Headington" section, you mention that the kits changed to yellow, but don't say what colour they were before, making it a bit of a non-sequitur
  • Done
• Also, you flit back and forth between singular and plural when referring to the club, choose one and stick to it (as long as it makes grammatical sense, of course)
  • Hopefully Done
• "In 1964, they had become" => "In 1964, they became"
  • Done
• Why the need to put Maxwell's dates of birth and death?
  • Wasn't any need, Removed
• We generally show unsponosored names for competitions, so you should say that Oxford won the Football League Cup, or at the very least "the Football League Cup, known at the time as the Milk Cup under a sponsorship deal"
  • Done
• "they faced Queens Park Rangers in the final was held at Wembley Stadium" - think there's a few words missing here
  • Done
• Say that Maxwell went to Derby County, not just "Derby"
  • Done
• Also, don't link Derby County twice in such close succession
  • Done
• You link Kevin Maxwell in the "Life in the second tier" section, but his name was mentioned in the previous secion, so it should be linked there and not here
  • Done
• Don't refer to the "Premiership", its correct and official name is the Premier League
  • Done
• "United finished a eleventh" - stray word in there
  • Removed
• "An positive start to the 2003–04 season" - stray letter N
  • Removed
• Following the earlier point about unsponsored names, don't use "Coca-Cola League Two"
  • Done
• "were relegated to the National Conference" - should be Conference National, not the other way round
  • Changed
• As two teams went up and two down, it is not factually accurate to say that Oxford were specifically "replaced" by Accrington, you could maybe try "ironically, Accrington Stanley, the team that Oxford replaced blah blah blah, were one of the two teams promoted into League Two" or something
  • Changed
• I've just noticed that there's also a lot of unreferenced bits - in the first paragraph of the "Life in the Conference" section, only the second place finish is ref'd. This wouldn't pass muster at FAC
  • Done
• Say that Oxford played Exeter City, not just "Exeter"
  • Done
• First mention of Darren Paterson's name is not linked
  • Not DoneIt is already linked earlier on in the 'Relegation to the Conference' section
• "Kelvin had been part of the management team" => "Thomas had been part of the management team" - over-familiarity
  • Done
• It's a bit jarring that, having got as far as November 2008, the next sub-section then jumps back to 1995, still within the "history" section. The financial crisis stuff should be dispersed within the other sub-sections of the "history", in the appropriate places
  • I was advised during the GA review to move this section here. Do you feel it would be more practical to integrate it within the main body of text?
    • Either that or make it a completely separate section in its own right as opposed to a sub-section of the history..... -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 13:48, 31 January 2009 (UTC)
      • Done, I have integrated it into the rest of the history Eddie6705 (talk) 14:00, 31 January 2009 (UTC)
• "Oxford's average league attendances at from 1963 to 2007" - stray word
  • Done
• Move the graph, you've got text squashed between it and the infobox which looks very poor
  • Moved
• "1st May 2001" => "1 May 2001"
  • Done
• "and is unique in the English League in having only three stands" - there's no such thing as the "English League". There is The Football League, but Oxford don't play in that. If you mean the "English football league system", I'd challenge the assertion that they're the only team at any level with a three-sided ground, I've been to a few lower-level non-league grounds with only three sides
  • Changed to Conference National
• All the club names in the "stadium" section are unlinked
  • Done
• "as well the fact" - missing word
  • Added
• "The largest league unbeaten runwas" - two words run together
  • Separated
• Also, just above this, say Division Four, not Division 4
  • Changed
• "John Shuker holds the most league appearances" => "John Shuker holdds the record for the most....."
  • Changed
• "The largest amount of money Oxford have received from a player sold" - reword, they didn't receive the money from the player
  • Done

Hope this all helps! -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 08:57, 30 January 2009 (UTC)

Yes it does :) I have made the majority of the changes (the simple ones), and will have a go at the others such as the reliability issue tomorrow when i have time. Once again thanks. Eddie6705 (talk) 19:08, 30 January 2009 (UTC)

All looks good now :-) -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 09:54, 2 February 2009 (UTC)

Comments from The Rambling Man on tour

I´m on a terrible PC, poor internet connection, blurred monitor, Spanish keyboard layout and I have a beard from lack of shaving. So, take these comments as you see fit!

• I would emphasise that they play association football for our non-footy readers. I know you link to soccer but spelling it out doesn´t do any harm.
  • Done.
• Consider linking relegation (should a good link exist)
  • Added a link.
• I have a crappy monitor but is that a hyphen separating the years in the opening para rather than an en-dash?
  • Yep it was, oops. Changed.
• "...the vicar at the local church, and a local doctor ..." not keen on the local x2...
  • Replaced with full church name and location.
• "...to...keep fit..." a little colloquial, perhaps "...a way for the ... to maintain their fitness..."? No big deal though...
  • Changed, it reads a bit better.
• Not keen on the repetition of "...permanent home..."
  • Replaced first mention with regular.
• You have 2005-2006 in the lead and then 1957–58 in the history section. Be consistent when describing your seasons...
  • Done
• "...in 1965.[10] In 1964..." I know why this is difficult but it reads strangely going back in time... anything you can do to fix this elegantly?
  • Replaced, do you think i fixed it elegantly :)?
• "...while a Third Division side..." as a Third division side?
  • Changed.
• Is "tycoon" completely free of POV? Just be careful....
  • Changed.
• "...who several seasons earlier had won ..." I think some commas here?
  • Agreed
• "physio" a little colloquial, stick with physiotherapist.
  • Done.
• "...saw another relegation battle which was narrowly won...." I know you´re referring to Oxford winning the battle but this sentence could use some work...
  • Changed.
• "...Derby County[25];..." citation after the semicolon.
  • Done
• "...Denis Smith. By the time Smith was hired, Oxford was deep in relegation trouble. Despite Smith's efforts,..." Smith overdose. I think you could use at least one "he" or "his" here...
  • Agreed.
• "...dilapidated ..." fact (so where´s the citation?) or your POV?
  • Added Citation
• "...£6,000,000..." why not just £6 million like all other instances of millions?
  • Changed.
• "...They suffered 33 league defeats, the second-highest number of league defeats ever endured by a league club in a single season...." needs citation.
  • Added Citation.
• "Oxford did better..." yuck. I think this needs to be a little more professionally written.
  • Re-written.
• "A positive start to the 2003–04 season suggested that Oxford's three-year spell in Division Three might soon be over,..." your POV again. Unless there´s a citation to back it up.
  • Have reworded and added a citation
• "...plummeted ..." a little POV.
  • Replaced with fell.
• "...ex-England..." link to the national team unless I missed a previous link.
  • Linked
• Shouldn´t stadium section be stadiums since you talk about more than one?
  • Changed
• Second para of Stadium section is entirely unreferenced.
  • Added two references.
• Bronze ox caption is incomplete so doesn´t take a full stop. Same with directors image.
  • Think its done.
• 2009/10 should use an en-dash for consistency with other seasons.
  • Done
• "...has had 3 spells..." three spells.
  • Changed
• Some honours are specifically cited, some aren´t, why is this?
  • Don't know to be honest. I have now cited them all.
• "...which exceeded the normal capacity..." what do you mean by this exactly?
  • There were more people in the ground that the stadium could hold (14,500 according to the milk cup final programme), hence the need for the scaffolding.
• "...The largest transfer fee Oxford has paid for was £475,000 ..." rogue "for" in there I think.
  • Removed

Hopefully those comments help. All the best from La Paz. The Rambling Man on tour (talk) 21:28, 3 February 2009 (UTC)

Thank you very much, the comments, as ever, are very useful :) Eddie6705 (talk) 18:40, 4 February 2009 (UTC)

Comments from Jameboy (talk · contribs)

• A general comment, there is definitely recentism in the history section. Recent seasons are covered in quite a bit of detail, with 1986-2009 covering the majority of the section. While the Football League years should rightly be given more prominence, I'd still expect more balance in an article about a club that is over 100 years old.
  • Over the next few days i will try and add more detail on Headington United. I was hoping to get hold of Oxford United: The Headington Years, but it is currently unavailable on Amazon. If or when i can get hold of it i will expand further, possibly even branching some of it off into a new page.
• "Oxford United was formed as amateur club Headington..." linking amateur" to Non-league football is a bit misleading, as not all non-league clubs are amateur, indeed several are now fully professional, including Oxford I assume.
  • I think they are. Link changed.
• A link to Headington somewhere would be useful (I can't see one).
  • Added.
• "but this was developed on in 1920" - I think "built on" or "redeveloped" sounds better than "developed on"
  • Changed
• Manor Ground, Oxford is linked twice in the "Headington United" section.
  • Removed second link.
• Inconsistency: "A permanent home was finally found in 1926" against "From 1925 to 2001 Headington United / Oxford United played at the Manor Ground" - needs either explaining or correcting. Those two sentences are also a bit disjointed from each other, as both serve to introduce the topic of the Manor Ground.
  • Removed sentance as it basically just repeats what is mentioned earlier.
• "but has not progressed that far in the competition since" - "has" is not consistent with "they" earlier in the sentence
  • Changed.
• to improve the flow, how about: "In 1982, as a Third Division side, Oxford United was facing closure due to costs owed to Barclays Bank, but were rescued when businessman Robert Maxwell completed a takeover of the club.
  • Done.
• "On 16 March 1983," exact date is not important is it? I'd go with "March 1983" or even "The following year"
  • Changed.
• Listing all the opponents from the 1986 Milk Cup run seems too much detail. I'd just go with describing the final, or the final and semi-final at most.
  • Removed the earlier rounds up to the semi-final.
• "the upper tier of the English league" - what does this mean? The top division, the top two divisions?
  • Changed wording
• "Malcolm Shotton — who had been assistant manager" a comma would seem more appropriate than the emdash.
  • Changed
• "Jim Smith, the club's most successful ever manager" - who says he is the most successful? based on what criteria?
  • Reworded slightly.
• The stadium section and records section mention the FA Cup 6th (sixth?) round, but earlier in the article it is called the quarter-final. Probably better to be consistent.
  • Changed to sixth round.
• "seventies and early eighties" 1970s and early 1980s is better
  • Changed.
• "More recently, the strip has been..." and "More recently a fanzine has..." can you say when?, e.g. since (year) or between (year1 and year2) or during (decade)
  • Added decade to first quote, Reworded second one as i can't find a date.
• Access dates in references are inconsistently formatted, e.g "Retrieved on 2007-08-23" and "Retrieved on 4 February 2009"
  • Formats changed to show full date.
• Don't think External links requires subheadings
  • Removed sub-headings.

Hope this is useful. --Jameboy (talk) 19:42, 4 February 2009 (UTC)

Yep it was thank you :) Eddie6705 (talk) 20:55, 4 February 2009 (UTC)

Comments from Oldelpaso

• I'd echo Jameboy's comment about the balance of the history section.
  • Over the next few days i will try and add more detail on Headington United. I was hoping to get hold of Oxford United: The Headington Years, but it is currently unavailable on Amazon. If or when i can get hold of it i will expand further, possibly even branching some of it off into a new page.
• It was created by Rev John Scott-Tucker, the vicar at Saint Andrew's church in Old Headington, and a local doctor named Robert Hitchings.[3] The team was created - repetition of it was created/ team was created, could do with rewording.
  • Reworded.
• A picture of the Kassam Stadium or Manor Ground would be better than an infobox in the Stadium section.
  • Added an image.
• The colours make the league position graph hard to see.
  • Changed
• A quick one or two sentence recap of the "no regular home before 1913" part and Wootten's Field would be a useful introduction for the Stadium section.
  • Added a few sentences.
• The stadium section comes across as being mostly about the move. The name Kassam Stadium ought to be mentioned earlier than it is, it is not explicit that it is the new stadium discussed in the preceding paragraph.
  • Added Kassam Stadium earlier on.
• Crest and colours section looks fairly sound, as does Supporters and rivalries.

Hope this helps. Oldelpaso (talk) 11:42, 6 February 2009 (UTC)