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Spiro Agnew[edit]

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I've listed this article for peer review because… We'd like feedback before FAC. Note that this is on behalf of Brianboulton and myself.

Thanks, Wehwalt (talk) 19:46, 15 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Comments by Eddie891

  • "Spiro Agnew was born eleven months later." I would say "...Eleven months later on November 9, 1918
Done.--Wehwalt (talk) 22:20, 21 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • "In accordance with his mother's wishes, the infant Spiro was baptised an Episcopalian, rather than into the Greek Orthodox Church of his father." When? What church?
  • The source doesn't say, merely that he was baptised and raised as an Episcopalian. Brianboulton (talk) 09:58, 22 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Why is citation #6 repeated twice in a row?
Fixed.--Wehwalt (talk) 22:20, 21 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Agnew was in the U.S. Army" was he drafted or enlisted?
  • "Agnew was appointed for a one-year term to the county Zoning Board of Appeals" by the council, I assume?
  • Who is "Whitcover"?
Fixed.--Wehwalt (talk) 00:36, 22 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • "could have introduced at that time." why? Just because of their party?
  • Yes, the local party had a strong Southern-Democrat inclination. I'll see if I can clarify this without adding too much verbiage. Brianboulton (talk) 09:58, 22 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I've played with it a bit.--Wehwalt (talk) 10:07, 22 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • "In the Democratic party, three candidates – a moderate, a liberal and an outright segregationist –" what are their names?
  • Only the name of Mahoney is important. We want to keep the article's length within reasonable bounds. Brianboulton (talk) 09:58, 22 September 2017 (UTC)'[reply]
  • Trivial, I know, but " had left the vice president exposed" Exposed to what?
  • "The first postwar vice president not to have been a senator," It is implied post WW2, but unclear exactly what war.
I think it's a fairly commonly understood phrase and can stand as is.--Wehwalt (talk) 22:56, 25 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
First three months, as local Republican organizations had their Lincoln Day events, mostly. I think the language is OK.--Wehwalt (talk) 22:53, 25 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

More to follow - Looks very good so far. most of my quibbles are because I ALWAYS want to know more Eddie891 Talk Work 22:49, 25 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for your comments to date. we look forward to more. Brianboulton (talk) 09:58, 22 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I've done Eddie's more recent comments.--Wehwalt (talk) 23:39, 25 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from Tim riley[edit]

Quick comment on AmE-v-BrE from my first read-through. A few Anglicisms seem to have crept in (from Lincolnshire?): baptised, fuelled, emphasise, and defence. I've corrected a few undoubted typos, but I have not presumed to alter these four. Nor am I certain that gubanatorial is not good AmE (as against our BrE gubernatorial). More on the content anon. Tim riley talk 18:28, 22 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Before I get on to content, a matter of punctuation: The American convention that you have to shove in an unnecessary comma in, e.g. "In 1919, he was blah...." seems to me rather daft (the King James Bible manages well enough without it in its first sentence), but am I wrong in assuming that in an AmEng article it should be applied throughout? Here are some comma-free examples that caught my eye:

  • During the early 1920s the Agnews prospered.
  • During the three years Agnew spent at the company he rose
  • At the office he met a young filing clerk
  • In 1947 Agnew graduated
  • A year later he moved
  • After the campaign it emerged
  • On April 11 Agnew summoned
  • In 1968 the Nixon-Agnew ticket

That’s as far as I got on this. Tim riley talk 19:11, 22 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I rather imagined, and hoped, that my co-conspirator Wehwalt would yankify my prose and punc as necessary. I'm not sure that the comma rule you mention is inviolable – Scott Fitzgerald didn't apply it – but I'll leave that judgement to Wehwalt. Brianboulton (talk) 20:00, 22 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I did make several yankifications but must have missed those ... I don't have a strong view on the commas. I don't know it as an ENGVAR rule in so many words. I've been moving towards omitting commas where possible. Anyway, I'll give it another read.--Wehwalt (talk) 20:13, 22 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Which I've done, and hopefully any accent is a bit more muted. I eliminated one or two of the ones Tim cites.--Wehwalt (talk) 21:24, 22 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Finally got a free day for WP tomorrow, and shall add my thoughts on content. Looking forward to it. Tim riley talk 22:28, 28 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I don't think you're going to get much from me, but I'll be as pernickety as I can.

  • World War II (1941–1945)
    • "until the fall" – I think the MoS bids us avoid referring to the seasons (Southern hemisphere susceptibilities). Perhaps a month, here?
  • Postwar years (1945–1956)
    • "moving with his wife and children" – this is the first we've heard of any children, unless I've nodded.
    • "Bachelor of Laws (LL.B)" – as the intials are not repeated later is there any point in having them here?
  • County executive
    • "a relatively progressive administration" – relative to what? I always advise avoiding the word unless you're actually relating something to something else. Otherwise something like "moderately" is preferable, I think.
  • In office
    • "Agnew's close ties to the business community was noted" – plural noun with singular verb
  • Campaign
    • "an expose in The New York Times" – just checking that AmE doesn't use the aigu for exposé
I'm sure style guides have their opinions, but in my experience both are common.--Wehwalt (talk) 13:40, 30 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Transition and early days
    • "than any vice president Alben Barkley" – missing a "since", I think
    • "held that role under Truman" – The plain surname looks a bit blunt for a first mention: I'd suggest calling him Harry S Truman here
  • 1970: Protesters and midterm elections
    • "Another "fall" that might be better as a month
  • Re-election in 1972
    • "to raise hell with Nixon after Colson characterized the vice president as a surrogate" – two points here. First, unless it is a quote, "raise hell" is a bit slangy; secondly, I didn't understand what Colson is supposed to have been saying here: a surrogate in what sense or for whom?

That's all from me. This is a most readable article, and I look forward to seeing it at FAC. Please ping me when it gets there. In passing, I note with admiration that I couldn't guess which bits are by Wehwalt and which by BB: a seamless robe. I suppose it is unacceptably frivolous of me to recall that when we in Britain first became aware of Spiro Agnew, in the late 1960s, the most notable thing about him was considered to be that his name was an anagram of Grow a Penis. After which facetious addition, I'm off to PR SchroCat's nominated Aberfan article now – a chilling prospect. Tim riley talk 18:46, 29 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you, I've done all those. I've cut the surrogate incident, deciding it's a bit of a distraction.--Wehwalt (talk) 15:17, 30 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from KJP1[edit]

A beautifully written article, on an interesting figure. Some, meagre, prose comments below. I shall then have a look at my Nixon books and see if I have anything more interesting to say on the content.

Lead

  • "He worked as an aide for U.S. Representative James Devereux" - I would have said "worked as an aide to U.S. Representative" but ignore if it's a US issue.
  • "Agnew had accepted kickbacks from contracts" - link kickbacks? Not sure it will be clear to all.

Early life

  • "Theofrate emigrated to the United States" - "Anagnostopoulos emigrated to the United States", perhaps?
  • "who was the city's federal meat inspector" - not sure what one of these is. I'm assuming it's an official appointed by the Federal government, as opposed to the City or State. Any way to clarify? Or just drop the federal?
  • "and declared a chemistry major." - Again, it'll be a language issue, but as a Brit reader, I don't understand this. Is it something like, "enrolled as a chemistry student"?
Generally, you don't formally select your field of study at American universities until after you are enroled`.

War and after--Wehwalt (talk) 23:34, 25 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

  • "His leisure interests were all midcult" - link "midcult" as it won't be obvious to us Brits?
  • "the sort of prose the Reader's Digest liked to condense" - you've got the l of "liked to condense" outside of the link. Hell, I'm being picky now.

Beginnings in public life

  • "could have introduced at that time without wrath from their supporters" - "without incurring wrath from their supporters" or "without angering their supporters"?
  • "tactics which were seen again as he defended against the corruption allegations" - "tactics which were seen again as he defended himself against the corruption allegations"?

Governor of Maryland

  • "battled for their party's gubanatorial nomination - gubernatorial, with a link? See Tim above.

Vice presidential candidate, 1968

  • "as a favorite son, uncommitted to any of the main candidate" - "as a favorite son, uncommitted to any of the main candidates"
  • "Senator Thruston Morton described Agnew as an "asshole" - not sure it's necessary to link "asshole"!

Vice Presidency (1969–1973)

  • "He met several days after the election with Nixon in Key Biscayne, Florida" - "He met with Nixon in Key Biscayne, Florida, several days after the election", perhaps.
  • "than any vice president since Truman's, Alben Barkley" - hesitate to intrude on the comma discussion above, but not sure this one's necessary.
  • "he took lessons in Senate procedures from the parliamentarian" - is this an official position? If so, can it have a little explanation.
  • "the administration and Southern whites had much in common, including the disapproval of the elites" - not sure. Is the first "the" necessary and should the "elites" be plural?
It's an ENGVAR think, I imagine. I think it's OK.--Wehwalt (talk) 23:34, 25 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Agnew's attacks were overbroad" - is "overbroad" US? Something like "broad brush"? "too sweeping", "too simplistic"?
  • Yes, too broad, too sweeping.
  • "The White House worked to assure the maximum exposure for Agnew's speech, and the networks covered Agnew's speech live, making Agnew's speech a nationwide address, a rarity for vice presidents" - "Agnew's speech" three times in one sentence. And could "ensure" replace "assure"? Perhaps, "The White House worked to ensure the maximum exposure for Agnew's speech, and the networks covered it live, making the speech a nationwide address, a rarity for vice presidents".
  • "who Agnew said cared nothing for the blue- and white-collar workers, the "Forgotten Man of American politics" - should it be "worker" to agree with "Man"?
  • I think that it can stand as is. They are collectively the Forgotten Man.--Wehwalt (talk) 22:56, 25 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • "the nattering nabobs of negativism.." - link nabob?
  • "Matz had been kicking back to Agnew" - link not necessary if put in earlier, see above.

Post resignation

  • "He in 1976 published a novel" - "In 1976 he published a novel..."
  • "his fictional analog, George Canfield," - is this an "analog"? Perhaps "counterpart"? Tim will know better than I.
  • "face an unspoken threat of possible assassination" - that's a pretty amazing assertion. Does it need fleshing out a bit? Was he saying that Haldeman(?) suggested angry members of the public might kill him, or that The White House itself might finish him off?
  • "but collapsed at home in Ocean City" - he'd moved to California earlier, but I assume he kept Ocean City as well?

External links

  • The first is giving me a reference error.
The Congressional Biographical Dictionary? It works for me.--Wehwalt (talk) 23:34, 25 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Very little to say re. the prose, as would be expected given the nominators. Absolutely no need for a blow-by-blow response. If you agree, just change it. If not, just ignore it. Will come back if my Nixon material throws up any content comments of interest. Many thanks for a most interesting read. KJP1 (talk) 21:59, 25 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for your kind words and for your thoughtful comments. I've done all but the assassination one, except where noted. I'd like Brian to look at that as I suspect he's more familiar with it than I.--Wehwalt (talk) 23:34, 25 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, many thanks KJP for your comments here. The "assassination" threat was basically a figment of Agnew's self-justifying imagination – the source, Coffey, calls it "an absurd tale". According to Agnew, Alexander Haig reminded Gen. Mike Dunn, Agnew's military aide, that the president "had a lot of power", a remark that Agnew melodramatically claimed made him "fear for his life". That's all there is, really. I've added a few words to debunk the story, but it's not worthy of serious discussion. Brianboulton (talk) 10:03, 26 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
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