Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Entertainment/2020 November 9
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November 9[edit]
Where did the I don't wanna see no eye gouging, biting, ball kicking [etc] thing before prizefights come from?[edit]
Where refs say I don't wanna see no [list] and about half the things are so dirty they're extremely unlikely to happen. It's a bit funny though, anyone know when this started? Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 03:51, 9 November 2020 (UTC)
- You could start your research with Marquess of Queensberry Rules. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 03:59, 9 November 2020 (UTC)
- Not when did they ban these but when did some referees start saying that when giving their I wanna see a fair fight spiel. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 04:53, 9 November 2020 (UTC)
- The instructions given immediately before the fight by the referee are different in boxing and mixed martial arts. Note that the referee will have met the fighters beforehand and given more extensive instructions. In boxing, the "public" instructions tend to be limited to "obey my commands, no hitting below the belt, and protect yourself at all times". [1] The more graphic commands you quote are from mixed martial arts, and come straight from the "Unified Rules of Mixed Martial Arts" as codified by the UFC in the early 2000s and formally adopted by everyone as of 2009. [2]. These are just some of the most flagrant and dangerous banned moves in that sport, but there are many others outlined in the document I have linked. In either case, there does not seem to be a standard text read by referees, but the idea is to clearly assert the referee's authority and remind the fighters (and the spectators) of some of the more common types of foul that could lead to disqualification. And yes, in the early days of MMA, back in the late 1970s and early 1980s, it was anything goes and some of these nasty things happened; the sport had a very unsavory reputation which it has worked for the past three decades to shed. Boxing had a similar unsavory reputation, but this was in the 19th century. In both cases, though, there is still inherent danger to the participants, even with referees and medical staff present. Xuxl (talk) 13:44, 9 November 2020 (UTC)
- Well put. For a bit more context, consider that MMA was primarily derived from Brazilian vale tudo, where the list of rules is essentially limited to not using weapons (vale tudo means "everything goes"). Early UFC fights followed that track and again allowed nearly anything, including groin attacks (though I think they disallowed stuff like eye gouges and fish-hooking). More often in the early days, but still today, different outfits followed different rules - for example, prior to its take-over by the UFC, Pride Fighting Championships had a different format to the fights and allowed stuff like kicks to grounded opponents. It's also not unusual, especially at the lower levels, for different sports to be on the same card. For example, to have a kickboxing or muay thai fight mixed in with MMA. For all these reasons, it's useful to confirm publicly which rules the bout will be contested under. Matt Deres (talk) 18:06, 9 November 2020 (UTC)
- I am reminded of a scene in one of the MythAdventures novels by Robert Asprin, in which our heroes get involved in a vaguely soccer-like game against an opposing team... and the only rule of conduct is that players are must not use edged weapons on each other. One of our heroes habitually carries a huge battle-ax, but is still allowed to play when he promises not to use the ax on his opponents. When a third team unexpectedly turns up, the field is reconfigured into a triangle shape so they can all play at once. And at one point the player with the ax uses it on the ball, and his team wins by simultaneously scoring a half-point against each opposing team. --174.95.161.129 (talk) 06:07, 10 November 2020 (UTC)
- Sounds like Brockian Ultra-Cricket. Matt Deres (talk) 13:43, 10 November 2020 (UTC)
- I am reminded of a scene in one of the MythAdventures novels by Robert Asprin, in which our heroes get involved in a vaguely soccer-like game against an opposing team... and the only rule of conduct is that players are must not use edged weapons on each other. One of our heroes habitually carries a huge battle-ax, but is still allowed to play when he promises not to use the ax on his opponents. When a third team unexpectedly turns up, the field is reconfigured into a triangle shape so they can all play at once. And at one point the player with the ax uses it on the ball, and his team wins by simultaneously scoring a half-point against each opposing team. --174.95.161.129 (talk) 06:07, 10 November 2020 (UTC)
- Well put. For a bit more context, consider that MMA was primarily derived from Brazilian vale tudo, where the list of rules is essentially limited to not using weapons (vale tudo means "everything goes"). Early UFC fights followed that track and again allowed nearly anything, including groin attacks (though I think they disallowed stuff like eye gouges and fish-hooking). More often in the early days, but still today, different outfits followed different rules - for example, prior to its take-over by the UFC, Pride Fighting Championships had a different format to the fights and allowed stuff like kicks to grounded opponents. It's also not unusual, especially at the lower levels, for different sports to be on the same card. For example, to have a kickboxing or muay thai fight mixed in with MMA. For all these reasons, it's useful to confirm publicly which rules the bout will be contested under. Matt Deres (talk) 18:06, 9 November 2020 (UTC)
- A bit of Googling turns up quite a few such speeches from people refereeing unofficial scraps in books dating from the early 20th century. The earliest I found is from a 1903 novel. --Antiquary (talk) 11:32, 10 November 2020 (UTC)
- The instructions given immediately before the fight by the referee are different in boxing and mixed martial arts. Note that the referee will have met the fighters beforehand and given more extensive instructions. In boxing, the "public" instructions tend to be limited to "obey my commands, no hitting below the belt, and protect yourself at all times". [1] The more graphic commands you quote are from mixed martial arts, and come straight from the "Unified Rules of Mixed Martial Arts" as codified by the UFC in the early 2000s and formally adopted by everyone as of 2009. [2]. These are just some of the most flagrant and dangerous banned moves in that sport, but there are many others outlined in the document I have linked. In either case, there does not seem to be a standard text read by referees, but the idea is to clearly assert the referee's authority and remind the fighters (and the spectators) of some of the more common types of foul that could lead to disqualification. And yes, in the early days of MMA, back in the late 1970s and early 1980s, it was anything goes and some of these nasty things happened; the sport had a very unsavory reputation which it has worked for the past three decades to shed. Boxing had a similar unsavory reputation, but this was in the 19th century. In both cases, though, there is still inherent danger to the participants, even with referees and medical staff present. Xuxl (talk) 13:44, 9 November 2020 (UTC)
- Not when did they ban these but when did some referees start saying that when giving their I wanna see a fair fight spiel. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 04:53, 9 November 2020 (UTC)