Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Humanities/2006 December 21

Welcome to the Wikipedia Humanities Reference Desk Archives
The page you are currently viewing is an archive page. While you can leave answers for any questions shown below, please ask new questions on one of the current reference desk pages.

December 21

Which ghost movie

Moved to Wikipedia:Reference desk/Entertainment Nil Einne 11:55, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

Christian Research Institute and WP:RS?

[[1]]

Specifically this is the article from their journal I want to use. [[2]]. I'd love feedback on whether people think it meets WP:RS or not. Sethie 17:48, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

Not sure if this is the right place for this question. I'd suggest you ask on the talk page of the article in which you wish to use it or on the talk page of WP:RS. --Cody.Pope 22:33, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

I don't see why it couldn't be used; it seems to be fairly thoroughly researched (60+ footnotes in a 6-page document). It probably depends on how you use it. BenC7 01:11, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

Schellenberg's use of Nostradamus in invasion of France 1940

Walter Schellenberg was a senior Nazi concerned with propaganda. In his autobiography, I think I remember him boasting how, by dropping leaflets containing falsified prophesies of Nostradamus, prior to the invasion of France, he contributed to the chaos in that country and helped the success of the Blitzkrieg. Is there any evidence for the use of Nostradamus please?

Here's the quote:

Another device which did great damage was a small and apparently innocuous pamphlet which was distributed in great numbers by our agents and also dropped from aircraft. Printed in French and described as being the prophecies of Nostradamus—many of whose prophecies were actually included—the pamphlet predicted terrifiying destruction from "flying fire machines," stressing all the time that southeastern France would be preserved from this horror. While preparing these brochures, I had never imagined that they would have such a tremendous effect. All the efforts of the civilian and military authorities to divert the great streams of refugees from attempting to reach southeastern France proved useless.Schellenberg, Walter (2000). The Labyrinth: Memoirs of Walter Schellenberg, Hitler's Chief of Counterintelligence. Louis Hagen (translator). p. 105. ISBN 0306809273.

Frolov, V.S. (April 1, 2006). "Encyclopedia of stratagems". Military Thought. looks independent, and may confirm that there was such a leaflet, if nothing else.EricR 19:46, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

By the way, does anyone know what "the ancient prophecy of the Virgin" is referring to in the linked article? Is that a mistranslation of Nostradamus (Michel de Nostredame)?EricR 01:23, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

Probably the third, and even more apocalyptic, secret of Our Lady of Fatima. meltBanana 03:03, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

Nostradamus Speaks by Rolfe Boswell printed in 1941 mentions Nazi propaganda using Nostradamus. Here is a page about the prophecies during the Second World War but with the damning comment "if he is memoir is to be believed". Here is a review of another creative reading of the prophesies at the same time. meltBanana 20:25, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

I think it probably amounts to a truism that all those involved in intelligence work tend to exaggerate the impact of certain stategems. I have no idea if this leaflet actually existed; but, if it did, I seriously doubt that it had the impact Schellenberg suggests. Hundreds of thousands of frightened people fleeing from Germans advancing rapidly from the north would hardly pause to make sense of Nostradamus' cryptic prophecies. If they did, I think they may have taken a slightly different message: that the Germans intended a major attack on the south-west. All refugees were going south; whether more went south-east than south-west, I really cannot say. And why hords of people going in one direction would be less disruptive than going in another is yet another imponderable. The French authorities were anxious to keep all the main highways free for obvious reasons and with limited effect. Stuka dive bombers were quite enough. What need for Nostradamus? Clio the Muse 01:11, 21 December 2006 (UTC) Thank you so much for this prompt reply.

Greek Myth? Maybe.

There is a story (myth?) about an island in ancient Greece where soldiers or warriors, through mutual or universal agreement, could visit at any time, remove their armor, and be safe from attack. It was a safe haven for R & R. Is this true, a myth, and what is the island's name?NewKidontheBlock 19:44, 20 December 2006 (UTC)NewKidontheBlock

Many places were protected by asylia (inviolability) to various degrees or at various times. The only references i've found stating the protection covered the entire island give Delos and Tenos, but there is no mention of soldiers in particular.EricR 02:02, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

Very interesting, espcially the asylia concept. Never heard of that before. As for the islands, Delos had a stronger custom about no births or deaths on the island. But Tinos may be the one someone was referring to...though it does not seem to have had the same custom as Delos. Thanks for the references...it may be a modern myth made up by someone who was trying to make a point about people needing safe havens to have open discussions...a modern approach to the age-old issue of the guy at the top being isolated. By giving it a specific name place, it was a better reference than the general asylia (asylum?) definition. NewKidontheBlock

Found some more info on Delos via Google Books:

the sanctity of the temple and island rendered it's military visitors inviolable; so Romans, Macedonians, and the allies of Eumenes mingled freely in the temple, the religion of the place supplying them a truce (Livy 44.29.2:...). Rigsby, Kent J. (1996). Asylia: Territorial Inviolability in the Hellenistic World. p. 52. ISBN 0520200985.

EricR 18:34, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

Which Jackie Chan movie?

Relocated to Popular Culture Reference Desk. dpotter 00:25, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

Song artist

Who sang the song "Carmelita" in 1946?

From what I have seen Carmilita is the name of the singer. Are you not sure it is the song you are looking for? Also used in a play. I can't realy be sure though. You should try several search engines for varied resultes. Ich liebe Wiki 00:36, 23 December 2006 (UTC)

Irak oil industry before and after 2003

I would like to know the level of difference as to which oil companies operated principally in Irak before the 2003 war and which are currently operating and which of these in both groups are linked to USA/UK or France/Rusia? Thankyou for any information. --AlexSuricata 23:50, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

After nationalization in 1972-73, there was basically just one oil company in Iraq, the Iraq National Oil Co. During the Iran-Iraq War (1980-88), I think there may have been a few deals done but perhaps not consummated. From 1990-2003, sanctions prevented any non-Iraq oil company from operating in Iraq, but many countries and companies (notably, none from the US or the UK) were working on deals and China, France, and Russia (or companies from there) had at least understandings by the time of the war in 2003. In 2003 sanctions were lifted, but also the occupying power (USA) declared pre-existing agreements null and void. There are many companies (both independents like ExxonMobil and Chevron, and national oil companies like those of China and Malaysia) working on deals to develop fields now. Go to this EIA web page and scroll down to "Status of Oil Development Deals with Foreign Companies" for more current info. Hope this helps, cheers Geologyguy 01:01, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

That´s perfect, thanks --AlexSuricata 02:53, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

name for a specific ethnic group

You know how in Canada and USA, they call Chinese, Japanese people "Asians" or "Orientals", Indian people "Desi".What do they call Iranians, Arabs, Turks and Afghanis, Arabs? or is it something else?

'They' do? I'm a white person from Western Canada, and I've heard the term 'Desi', but only online, never from the mouth of an actual person in my city. The people I know call people from Southeast Asia 'Asian' (if we don't know their actual country of origin), people from the Indian Subcontinent and environs 'South Asian' (with the same caveat), and people from the Middle East Middle Eastern. Anchoress 00:53, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

I'm a Canadian, and I call Iranians, Arabs, Turks, and Afghanis, "Iranians", "Arabs", "Turks", and "Afghanis". - Eron ^Talk 02:34, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

I'm American, and I've never even heard the term Desi. I'd have guessed that was a Cuban, after Desi Arnaz. If you're asking for insulting terms, I'm not sure we can give those here. StuRat 02:46, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

From The U.S., and never heard "Desi" except in the context of "Lucy." And we try to make a distinction between Iranians and Arabs. Edison 05:48, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

As a side note I thought it was Indians etc who use sometimes use the term 'desi' - assuming you were asking what 'white' people call them. (in the uk not canada).87.102.7.27 10:52, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

I am a white person from the eastern U.S. and I can confirm what everyone else has said: Most people have never heard of the term "desi". (I have, but only online, used by people of South Asian descent.) As for Iranians, Arabs, Turks, and Afghanis, people will refer to each group using those terms, or if they don't know the exact nationality, they might use "Middle Eastern." That said, I'm afraid that I have heard slang, generally used by people with a military background and/or far-right politics, referring to Arabs or Middle Easterners, somewhat interchangeably, as "ragheads". But that offensive term is not in wide use. Marco polo 14:44, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

In my part of the United States (the midwest, near Chicago), the nonspecific terms most frequently used are "Arab" and "Middle Eastern." Carom 20:16, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

Well, Iranians are usually called "Iranians", or perhaps "Persians". Turks and Afghanis are generally called "Turks" and "Afghanis". (Though I've always wondered why its perfectly polite to call a person from Afghanistan an "Afghani", yet to call a person from Pakistan a "Paki" is rather derogatory and low-brow. The same thing is happening in both cases. The "stan" suffix is simply being removed. Curious.) As for Arabs, coming from some 20 different "Arab" countries, collectively they're considered Arabs, yet individually they can be referred to based on whatever particular Arab country they're from. Loomis 13:37, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

Tangier Ville Rail Station

I'm having trouble finding a detailed online street map of Tangier. Can anyone tell me what street the Tangier Ville station is on?

Thanks,

Adambrowne666 00:31, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

From memory, Gare Tangier Ville is a fairly new building, situated outside the main part of the city. I do not honestly know if it comes with a specific street name as such. Clio the Muse 00:47, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

Google Maps doesn't give a street address either, but it appears to be close the marina. Surely the station should be signposted from most parts of town anyway? Laïka 10:59, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

Thanks, both of you - that's helpful, Laika, that it's close to the marina - though this isn't for me to navigate the town, but research for a story I'm writing - I'm gonna thank the Wikipedia Humanities Help Desk when it's published. Adambrowne666 22:20, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

In fact, I've had closer look at the map; it seems to be little further inland than it appears, on the outskirts of the city. It's still not too far from the marina, but you have to cross a small river to reach it. It's not perfect, but ONCF, the Moroccan Railway Company, has posted a map of Tanger Ville station (the station is normally written without an "i"), which corresponds to roughly here on Google Maps. Laïka 16:32, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

Did you know ? In Tang(i)er, every railway station and every train is painted blue. That's like that there. So spies and gurus paint themselves blue to avoid being recognized. -- DLL ^{.. T} 18:37, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

Thanks again, Laika, good link - interesting detail, too, Harvestman, about the blue-painted trains... does that mean even trains from other cities, from, say, Fez, get a quick paintjob while they're at Tanger Ville?Adambrowne666 23:37, 22 December 2006 (UTC) -- I should probably add that I enjoy your strangely lyrical contribs, Harvestman. Adambrowne666 02:51, 26 December 2006 (UTC)

My hand hurts!?!

In a counseling course I once took, the prof. mentioned refered several times to, when writing, people who press down really hard, grip tight, etc. However, the course being at 755am, I was conscious, but thats about it. So I googled it and I cant find any neurosis, disorder etc. refering to that being a symptom. So, anyone wanna find out?

Thanks!!!72.70.28.190 00:51, 21 December 2006 (UTC)moe.ron

I just realized that people who answer these questions are prolly on holiday. Since most I would ASSume are in college72.70.28.190 00:53, 21 December 2006 (UTC)moe.ron

Can you clarify what you mean? BenC7 01:15, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

Clarify huh? hmmm. Well he was talking about when writing with a pencil on paper. While writing, rather than keeping the hand loose, the writing was down bearing down on the paper. I guess just keeping the hand tense, gripping the pencil tightly, and again writing while pushing hard down on the pencil.72.70.28.190 02:15, 21 December 2006 (UTC)moe.ron

Check out Writer's cramp. - Eron ^Talk 02:32, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

The science reference desk may be more helpful, although no reference desk gives medical advice. However you might also want to check out Repetitive strain injury Nil Einne 11:47, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

Thse are all things angry people will do. Maybe your prof. was talking about anger. What class was this?  --Lambiam^Talk 23:56, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

FA Premier League

What team, if any, do most people from Ireland support in the FA Premier League. Pretty subjective and difficult to get a census I would imagine. But I was thinking there was a team that was supported more than another.

Lots of Irish people seem to support Liverpool - i suppose if you get the ferry over it's the nearest Premiership side. --194.176.105.40 09:24, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

There's also a lot of affinity for Manchester United in Northern Ireland. I think this predates the immortal George Best, but his contributions for club and country have probably helped this considerably. --Dweller 11:16, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

diagrams or maps of egyptian pyramids (inside showing chamber locations)

i an looking to find a picture of a diagram of what a egyptian pyramid should look inside with all it's chambers

A very schematic diagram of the Great Pyramid and some inside photographs can be found at Ancient Egypt Online. A clearer diagram is at the pyramid pages of World Book. Note that other pyramids are much simpler.  --Lambiam^Talk 06:54, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

Checking surname for Sept or Clan affiliation

What is "Barnes"? I have seen GENUKI provide a guess and tried to scour internet atlases, but have found nothing apart from Barnes Castle in East Lothian. A last name would have to be older than the castle, which was built rather late. Burnett and Campbell both seem to claim Barnes, but I confess to be certain of nothing apart from the origin of this name. Please don't redirect me to some obscure genealogy engine. I'm sure there are Scots here with the knowledge. Thanks anyways. Rhode Islander 04:28, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

Hi, Rhode Islander. I'm not sure I can be that much help to you, as family-names, I confess, are not really my area of expertise, but from what I can gather Barnes is not a Scottish surname at all, unless it is a corruption of Burns or Barron, the latter name connected with Clan Rose. Barnes itself seems to be of English origin, an occupational name for someone who worked, well, in barns. Names were, however, sometimes derived from location, which could suggest a connection with Barnes Castle. The other possibility is that it comes from the Old English beorn and Old Norse barn, meaning 'young warrior.' The third possibility is that it is an Anglicization of the Irish O'Berán, meaning spear. Tenuous Scottish and clan connection, though-sorry! On this particular point I think it only fair to warn you that, as a former Lord Lyon KIng of Arms pointed out, Scottish clans have a habit of 'stealing' septs in the same fashion as their ancestors once stole cattle and sheep! Clio the Muse 06:36, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

Is all this clan business, reality in anachronistic form...or just artful fancy? Rhode Islander 06:53, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

I have no wish to spoil any illusions, or to upset anyone who takes this whole matter seriously, but you are right: it is an anachronism. The whole institution, quite frankly, has a far greater resonance in places firth of Scotland, particularly in North America, where the issue of 'roots' has acquired an almost religious intensity. Clans were once powerful political formations, though their structure and organisation was quite different from the popular romantic image. However, in the eighteenth century, especially after the failure of the last Jacobite Rebellion in 1746, they went into terminal decline. Clan societies were initially established in the Lowlands to allow migrants from the Highlands to preserve something of their old cultural identity. Now they tend to be about nostalgia, and that is never what it used to be. Clio the Muse 08:20, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

Rock the Casbah

This is probably a strange question. Recently (I'd say within the last couple months), it's become very popular around here to use the phrase "Rock the Casbah" to describe any sort of sex. I know it comes from the Clash song, but was there some TV show or movie or something of the like that used it in the same way that led to its recent popularity?

Yes, Bart used it on The Simpsons as a euphemism for sex. -- Mwalcoff 07:00, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

That's right, in Natural Born Kissers. Laïka 10:39, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

Leeds Castle

It says that Leeds castle became a royal palace for king Edward 1 but it doesn't say when it was built. I'm hoping someone could tell me a site that says if it was built in between the time AD 500-1500. I'm also wondering Who built the castle?, How long the construction lasted?, and Who sponsored the building?

Our article Leeds Castle states that it "dates back to 1119, though a manor house stood on the same site from the 9th century". This means it was built (or finished) in 1119. The earlier manor house was built AD 801–900. According to the Castle's web site, it was built by Robert de Crevecoeur, replacing the Saxon manor of Esledes .  --Lambiam^Talk 07:12, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

Thank you sooo much for your help. =)

One small fact that does not appear on the Wikipedia page-or the castle web site-is that it is thought to have derived its name from an original Anglo-Saxon manor belonging to one Led, Leed or Ledian, chief counsellor of Ethelbert IV, King of Kent. Clio the Muse 08:33, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

Perhaps reflected in the name EsLedes.  --Lambiam^Talk 23:58, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

The modern day castle looks nothing like it would have done in 1119. Henry VIII extensively worked on it. In the form it is today, it's much more a stately home than a true castle, with much of the fortification retained for aesthetics or removed/compromised for similar the same reason, or to enhance comfort. Leeds castle isn't really a castle anymore and it isn't in (or anywhere near) Leeds, although there is a small village called Leeds nearby. --Dweller 11:09, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

A book on castles in Great Britain distinguished between great houses and castles on the basis of whether they had a "Crenelation permit" or license from the crown. A fortified structure might be a threat to the government. No authorized crenelations for the purpose of fortification? Not a castle. Modern structures with crenelations might just have them as decorations. Edison 19:25, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

Items found in public places

Not asking for legal advice but I'm considering legal issues here. What laws, if any, cover the situation when you find something in a public place which is unlikely to have been discarded (E.g. found on a set or along the path). Two kinds of cases especially interest me. What about if the item has no identifying marks or features? For example, a camera with no photos on it. And what about when the owner can clearly be identified. For example a wallet with ID. Welcome views from any country or jurisdiction, but please specify which one. I'm aware there are subsquent issues but I'm not interested in these. For example, using someone else's ID, credit card or whatever will come under fraud and related laws. Nil Einne 11:40, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

This article might help: Lost, mislaid, and abandoned property. --24.147.86.187 15:03, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

Come on, you know we have an article on everthing: Finders keepers. Rmhermen 18:06, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

Almost everything [3] :-) S.dedalus 00:45, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

The Experience Machine

I have to write an essay about Nozick's Experience Machine, as he asks it in his book Anarchy, State, and Utopia.

Is it better to plug in or not to plug in?

To plug in or not to plug in, that is the question. Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune, or to enjoy your life. So defend the hedonist plug-in position. At least it's a different take.  --Lambiam^Talk 23:34, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

Anti-kosher foods

Is there any common food item that breaks more of the kosher laws than a bacon, lettuce, and tomato with cheese sandwich? --67.185.172.158 21:39, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

Sure, put some shrimp on that sandwich. - AMP'd 21:50, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

Also eat it during Passover, the bread won't be kosher then. - AMP'd 21:54, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

I didn't know an SCBLT sub is a common food item.  --Lambiam^Talk 23:27, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

Double bacon please. :-) | AndonicO ^{Talk | Sign Here} 23:59, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

Boil the bacon in the milk of the sow that gave birth to it . (Yuck!). Edison 00:34, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

In Mexico, I saw shrimp stuffed with cheese and wrapped in bacon. More commonly, a bacon cheesburger violates two laws -- three on Passover. -- Mwalcoff 01:34, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

I suppose that the bacon could be made from tissue removed from the living pig, without killing it. Bunthorne 04:08, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

On the odd chance anyone's interested in a serious answer, eating certain (but not all) insects is considered the worst violation of kashrut. Loomis 04:38, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

What insects are those? Bhumiya (said/done) 06:35, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

Well, almost all insects actually. I know that when making a salad or anything with lettuce, for example, one is required to examine the lettuce by the light to make sure there aren't any bugs in it. Those definitely aren't kosher. The reason I said "certain (but not all) insects" is because I've been told by several Rabbis that there happen to be certain grasshoppers and/or locusts that indeed are kosher. I'm not sure which ones though, so don't take this as authoritative without actually asking a real expert on kashrut.

I should also point out that it's a common misconception that pork is singled out as the "most unkosher" of meats, or that pigs are unkosher because they're "particularly" unclean animals. That's not the case at all. I believe it's based on a mistranslation ("unkosher"="unclean"? Well, sort of, but not in the "traditional" sense of "clean", just "unclean" as in "unfit for consumption"), along with the fact of course that pork is such a common meat eaten by gentiles. Many other animals are considered "unclean" for Jews to eat. Most of it is found Deuteronomy 14. To name a few: all fish and seafood without scales, horses, camels, monkeys, apes, rodents, felines, canines, certain birds such as vultures, osprays, falcons, ravens, ostriches, hawks, owls, pelicans, storks, herons...and a whole bunch more I can't remember. ALL of these are considered "unclean", or, in other words, "unfit for consumption". "Cleanliness", in the ordinary sense of the term, has little to do with it. (eg. Is a cow really any "cleaner" an animal than a horse?) Interestingly, though, according to Deut. 14:19: "And all swarming things are unclean unto you; they shall not be eaten". I'll have to ask my Rabbi next time I see him why he said certain grasshoppers and/or locusts are ok. (No worries though, I'm not in the habit of eating them!) :) Loomis 14:02, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

Locusts mentions the kosher issue. But I wonder why you say that insect are more "un-kosher" than other proscribed items? Rmhermen 03:20, 23 December 2006 (UTC)

It's from Leviticus 11:43 "Ye shall not make yourselves detestable with any swarming thing that swarmeth, neither shall ye make yourselves unclean with them, that ye shall be defiled thereby." In other words, not only are insects unclean, (unkosher,) but in addition, unlike other nonkosher foods, to eat insects is not only unkosher, but to do so is to "defile the body". Loomis 02:04, 26 December 2006 (UTC)

Add some hyrax to all of that and you'll be set. --140.247.249.64 19:06, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for the heads-up. Next time I'm at McDonalds, I'll avoid the Hyrax-McNuggets. Loomis 02:41, 23 December 2006 (UTC)

My understanding is that there are 5 species of locusts that are kosher. However, they are kosher only for certain groups of Yeminite Jews that have a history of eating them (long story, most of which I don't understand). My pet hypothesis about why the locust would be kosher is that old saying; "If you can beat 'em, eat 'em". Bunthorne 03:18, 23 December 2006 (UTC)

Questions about Palestinian elections system

I read Palestinian legislative election, 2006 but I have some questions :

1. I know there haven't been elections since 1996, how long can they go without elections (when there aren't conflicts?) Four years?

2. "The second ballot is for the voter's local constituency. The voter can cast up to as many votes for individual candidates as there are seats in his or her constituency. Votes are unweighted, and top-vote getters are elected to the PLC. For example, a voter in the Nablus district could cast up to six votes; the six candidates with the highest vote totals are elected." So they get a second ballot. This ballot is not attached to the first one right? I mean, when the voter drops them in the box, they are disconnected, right?

3. Considering the Nablus example again, can the voter vote for four candidates from four different parties?

4. What do they mean when they say Hamas got 44.5% of all votes? There is a first and second ballot.. where did they get that number?

5. Can a politician be a candidate on both the first and second ballot? If so, what do they do when this means a politician is elected twice???

Thank you very much,Evilbu 22:01, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

You seem to be under the impression that the PA is actually an organization governed by the rule of law. For example, as to your first question: "how long can they go without elections (when there aren't conflicts?) Four years?" The sad truth of the matter is that they can go on as long as they please. As an example, Yasser Arafat was elected president on July 5, 1994 for a five year term, pursuant to Article 52 of the 1994 Constitution of Palestine, or if you prefer, pursuant to Article 70 of the 1995 Constitution of Palestine. Yet July 5, 1999 came and went with no presidential election whatsoever. Of course it might be understandable that during times of severe crisis elections might have to be postponed. Yet keep in mind that in July 1999 there was no such crisis. In fact, by July 2000, Arafat and then Israeli PM Ehud Barak were on such good terms that they actually got into that cutsy friendly jostle, each one insisting that the other should have the honour of entering Bill Clinton's cabin at Camp David first. Needless to say, Arafat's term as president essentially ended on the day he died. Loomis 15:39, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

But in theory parliaments should be re-elected every four years, and presidential elections are to held every four years? So wasn't there a massive Hamas uprising in July 1999 when Arafat didn't organise elections? Or were there? Do you happen to know the answer to my other questions? Thanks.Evilbu 19:46, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

I'm not sure why you say that in theory parliaments and presidential elections should be held every 4 years. There are many examples in many true democracies where the term is for something other than "4 years". For example in France, presidential elections are held, and the presidential term lasts, 7 years. In Canada, our Constitution requires Parliament to hold a general election at least every 5 years. Of course the government rarely waits to the last minute, and, generally speaking, chooses to hold an election after about 4 years, at a time they feel most confident about being reelected. In the US, all House members serve for a term of 2 years, and Senators for 6. There's simply no special rule that democratic elections are invariably meant to be held every 4 years. As for the rest of your questions, I'm sorry but I really have no clue. I see no purpose in studying the intricacies of rules that are so casually ignored, and as such have absolutely no realistic significance. Loomis 01:51, 23 December 2006 (UTC)

Well actually I was looking for confirmation. Apart from that, what I really wanted to know was where exactly they get their number when they say "Hamas has gained more support than Fatah".Thanks,Evilbu 20:17, 27 December 2006 (UTC)