Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Humanities/2007 July 26

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July 26

wedding

i was havng a conversation the other day and my father kept incisting that weddings , (as in the union of 2 or more person for the rest of their lives) has always been in all societies , ever . i dont belive this but i dont know much about the history of more than 2000 years ago.

A wedding and a marriage are two separate things, although probably as soon as the concept of marriage was developed weddings tooks place. Neutrality^talk 01:34, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

Anthropologists seem to find marriage rites in all societies. Once we get to pre-history, we can only guess, but marriage seems to have always been there so far as anyone can tell. The better question is whether we are projecting onto mating custom the overlay of "marriage," or if "marriage" is merely a word that covers any bonding with cohabitation. Geogre 12:48, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

Conlon Nancarrow's Boogie-Woogie Suite

I know this is a long shot, but I've been searching for any kind of music notation for a piece of music by Conlon Nancarrow called Boogie-Woogie Suite (later assigned the name Study No. 3 a-e). Nancarrow composed it for player piano, and I'm not sure there is any score of the music other than the original piano roll. Still I've searched for some kind of printed notation, but no luck. I'd even be happy to acquire something like scanned images of the piano rolls. So my question is -- can anyone help me find any kind of notated form of Nancarrow's Boogie-Woogie Suite? Thanks. Pfly 11:15, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

If an arrangement for human players is acceptable, see this Schott edition – I assume this is or contains Study No. 3 a-e. Our Conlon Nancarrow article further states: "In 1976-77, Peter Garland began publishing Nancarrow's scores in his Soundings journal", and here I see that indeed Soundings 10 Final Issue, Summer, 1976 includes work by Conlan Noncarrow. With some luck, Study No. 3 a-e was included in these scores. A good library should have these issues. You might further inquire at Frog Peak Music, fp@frogpeak·org, if Nancarrow: Collected Studies for Player Piano Vol. 4 (Sou13) contains what you're looking for.[1].  --Lambiam 16:45, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

If that doesn't work, perhaps you could ask User:Kylegann, who wrote a book about Nancarrow, for help. (Gann seems to have left wikipedia but there is an email address at his blog.) Skarioffszky 18:17, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

Death of the Prince Imperial

What were the exact circumstances behind the death of the prince imperial, son of Napoleon III, in the zulu war of 1879? Bryson Bill 12:16, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

There is a detailed account in Queen Victoria's Little Wars by Byron Farwell, published 1973 by Allen Lane. I do not have time to give a full answer at this moment, but will return to this subject when I can. In outline, he had been out sketching, accompanied by a Lieutenant Carey and seven troopers. They stopped at a temporarily deserted kraal, and used part of the thatch to make a fire. No lookout was posted. As they were preparing to leave, about 40 Zulus fired upon them and rushed screaming towards them. The Prince's horse dashed off before he could mount, the Prince clinging to a holster on the saddle - after about a hundred yards a strap broke, and the Prince fell beneath his horse, trampling his right arm. He leapt up, drawing his revolver with his left hand, and started to run - but the Zulus could run faster. He was speared in the thigh, pulled the assegai from his wound, and turned and fired on his persuers, another assegai struck his left shoulder. The Prince tried to fight on, using the assegai he had pulled from his leg, but weakened by his wounds, he sank to the ground and was overwhelmed. When recovered his body had 18 assegai wounds. 2 of his escort had been killed, and another was missing. Lt. Carey and the remaining 4 came together about 50 yards from where the Prince made his final stand - but not a single shot did they fire at the Zulus. Carey led his men back to camp, where he was greeted warmly for the last time in his career - after a court of inquiry, a court martial, intervention by the Princess Eugenie and Queen Victoria, he was to return to his regiment a pariah - shunned by his fellow officers for not standing and fighting. He endured 6 years of social hell before his death in Bombay. The Prince, who had begged to be allowed to go to war, taking the sword carried by the first Napolean at Austerlitz to war with him, and worried his commanders by his dash and daring, was described by Wolseley as "a plucky young man, and he died a soldier's death. What on earth could he have done better?". DuncanHill 12:39, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

I think, Duncan, your answer, excellent in every degree, could not be that much fuller. I can only offer some additional supporting information.

Louis Napoleon was only allowed to go to Africa by special pleading of his mother, the Empress Eugenie, and by Queen Victoria herself. He went as an observer, attached to the staff of Frederic Thesiger, 2nd Baron Chelmsford, the commander in South Africa, who was admonished to take care of him. Louis accompanied Chelmsford on his march into Zululand. Keen to see action, and full of enthusiasm, he was warned by Lieutenant Arthur Brigge, a close friend, "...to avoid running unecessary risks. I reminded him of the Empress at home and his political party in France."

Chelmsford, mindful of his duty, attached the Prince to staff of Colonel Richard Harrison of the Royal Engineers, where it was felt he could be active but safe. Harrison was responsible for the column's transport and for reconnaissance of the forward route on the way to Ulundi, the Zulu capital. While he welcomed the presence of Louis, he was told by Chelmsford that the Prince must be accompanied at all times by a strong escort. Lieutenant Jahleel B. Carey, a French speaker, was given particular 'charge' of Louis. The Prince took part in several reconnaissance missions, though his eagerness for action almost led him into an early ambush, when he exceeded orders in a party led by Colonel Redvers Buller. Despite this on the evening of 31 May Harrison agreed to allow Louis to scout in a forward party scheduled to leave in the morning, in the mistaken belief that the path ahead was free of Zulu skirmishers. It was a constant feature of the whole campaign for the British to underestimate the capacity of the Zulus, particularly the skill of their light infantry in ambush.

On the morning of 1 June the troop set out, earlier than intended, and without the full escort, largely owing to Louis' impatience. Led by Carey, the scouts rode deeper into Zululand. Without Harrison or Buller present to restrain him, the Prince took command from Carey, even though the latter had seniority. At noon the troop was halted while Louis and Carey made some sketches of the terrain. Matters then proceeded as Duncan has described, the Zulus running out with shouts of uSuthu! (kill). Louis was struck in the leg by an assegi, thrown by a man named Zabanga from the uMbonambi regiment. Further spears followed, thrown by Zabanga and several of his fellow warriors. After death the Prince was ritually disemboweled by one Hlabanatunga, a common Zulu practice to prevent his spirit seeking revenge on his killers in the afterlife.

Louis Napoleon's death caused an international sensation, and in one slanderous account Queen Victoria was accused of deliberately arranging the whole thing. Zabanga, his chief assailant, was killed in July at the Battle of Ulundi. Eugénie was later to make a pilgrimage to Sobuza's kraal, where her son died. Clio the Muse 01:46, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

Duncan, Clio, I incorporated your replies into Napoléon Eugène, Prince Imperial. --Ghirla^-трёп- 21:38, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

Transfusions in sport

With the recent Le Tour de France doping controversy, I got to thinking. I've read the reason for these homologous transfusion discoveries may be mistakes, they were supposed to transfuse their own blood but there was a mixup and transfused someone else's. This go me thinking, if this sort of thing happens, has there been any cases when sports people have either died or at least required treatment due a mixup and the transfusion incompatible donor? It would seem not that unlikely given that I would guess they don't bother to test the blood if they think it's theirs. Nil Einne 12:37, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

Marx in London

Karl Marx spent a good bit of his life living in England. Much of his work is based on research he carried out in the British Library. There is a little in your page about about Marx on his life in England, but it would be interesting to learn some more, on his personal experience, his reaction to British politics and so on. Did he hope, for example, that their would be a revolution; how did he see the chartists and the rise of the trade unions and so on? Sorry if this seems too much of a tall order but all information would be gratefully received. Tower Raven 16:58, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

Hi there. I'm not really an expert, but I remember reading a book he co-authored with Engels called On Britain where he writes in some detail about his thoughts on the nature of the British economy. I seem to remember that he originally believed that Britain would be the first country to become communist as it was, at the time, arguably the most industrialised society in the world. Fortunately he was wrong. Strangely, and disappointingly, the book seems to be out of print and is pretty hard to find information on. Maybe my memory is faulty. If you can find it, you may find it a very useful source for his thoughts on the country. Sorry I can't give you a more complete answer. Anyone else? TreeKittens 19:34, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

Ok, nearly. It's Articles on Britain by By Karl Marx & Friedrich Engels. Published by Beekman Books, 1971. ISBN 0846401533. I think thats what I was talking about. It seems it has a chapter on the chartists and so on. Hope that helps a little. TreeKittens 20:12, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

Ah, Marx in London: boils on his backside, harvested from hours spent in the reading room of the British Libary, an afflication for which he swore that the capitalists would pay!

Marx and family arrived in England in August 1849, settling in Dean Street, in the Soho district of London. He arrived with high expectations that the 'British Revolution', long in gestation, was shortly to be born. After all, this was the most industrialised country in Europe with the biggest proletariat. He placed particular faith in the Chartists, a mass movement which aimed at the democratic reform of the whole British political process. Before arriving he had written "The most civilized land, the land whose industry is the most developed, whose bourgeoisie is the most powerful, where the bourgeoisie and the proletariat are divided in the sharpest fashion and stand most decisively opposed to one another, will be the first to witness the emancipation of the workers of all lands. That land is England.".

Chartism, however, was not to be the vehicle of emancipation. Already in decline when Marx arrived, he held on to his unrealistic hopes as long as he could, but eventually agreed with Engels, who had a far better understanding of English politics, that the proletarian movement "...in its old traditional Chartist form must perish completely before it can develop in a new vital form."

This, in fact, is a key moment in Marx's personal and intellectual evolution; of the transformation of the young optimist into the ponderous critic of capitalism. A new crisis would come, that was always his belief, but if the revolutionry phoenix was to arise it would only do so through a proper understanding of the "law of motion of capitalist society." Das Kapital, volume one of which appeared in 1867, is not an analysis of capitalism in general: it is an analysis of English capitalism, or at least it is from this that he draws most of his practical examples. However, just as the English economy encouraged Marx in his model of historical development, his observations of English politics made him increasingly pessimistic. And here we have the key to the very thing that was to perplex not just Marx but generations of Marxists thereafter: namely, what was the precise relationship between objective economic forces and subjective revolutionary action? English capitalism may have been 'classic'; but English politics and the English working class was 'unclassic' in every degree!

The greatest puzzle for Marx was that England's political clothes simply did not fit its economic body, at least in the terms his theory prescribed. For Marx parliamentary republicanism was the political form best suited to advanced capitalism; but England retained not just a monarchy but a powerful aristocracy, which should have passed away with feudalism. It was the capacity of the English to absorb change without revolution that perplexed him most. England had a capacity for reform which;

...neither creates anything new, nor abolishes anything old, but merely aims at confirming the old system by giving it a more reasonable form and teaching it, so to say, new manners. This is the mystery of the 'hereditary wisdom' of the English oligarchical legislation. It simply consists in making abuses hereditary, by refreshing them, as it were, from time to time, by the infusion of new blood.

It was the English working class, which preferred to work within the existing system, that was to cause him his greatest annoyance, particularly in its support for the bourgeois Liberal party, parliamentary reform, moderate trade unions and the co-operative movement. The English had all the material necessary for a revolution but what they lacked was "the spirit of generalisation and revolutionary fervour." He became ever more pessimistic, towards the end of his life, seeing the English working class as no more than the 'tail' of the Liberal Party. Worse still, he came to agree with Engels that the English proletariat "was becoming more and more bourgeois, so that the most bourgeois of all nations is apparently aiming ultimately at the possession of a bourgeois aristocracy and a bourgeois proletariat as well as a bourgeoisie."

Alas the 'Red Doctor', as he came to be referred to in the British press after the Paris Commune, never understood the country he lived in for over thirty years of his life. His last recorded words were "To the devil with the British." Ah, well; Marx is dead, but capitalism lives! Clio the Muse 00:14, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

Reading that makes me proud to be British. Much more is achieved by gradual change than revolutions as Burke and Orwell well knew. I do sometimes wonder what Marx would have made of the way his ideas were put into actions in revolutions as Marxism turned out to be a much better theory than a practice. Cyta 07:47, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

Clio the Muse always makes me proud to be British. TreeKittens 01:10, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

And she is glad! But Clio in red, Tree Kittens? She is true blue! Clio the Muse 03:23, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

I used to study in the British Library Reading Room, under the sky-blue dome, where Marx and a lot of other famous people used to study. I didnt find out where he used to sit though. From what I've heard, at one time he used to live in two upstairs rooms a few yards from the BL with his wife and maid. He had a relationship with the maid, not sure if she had his child, or if he and his wife had children. The building where he lived still exists, I think he also lived in other places, probably the east-end. I expect you could find out more by searching on the internet. 80.0.104.224 21:36, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

Do you want to live forever

Which king said to his soldiers in battle 'rouges do you want to live forever?' SeanScotland 18:05, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

Assuming you mean rogues, this has been attributed to Frederick II of Prussia, better known as Frederick the Great.  --Lambiam 18:27, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

The exact quotation is Ihr Racker, wollt ihr ewig leben?, (Rascals, do you want to live forever?) words Frederick shouted at the Prussian Guard Regiment after it hesitated to advance at the Battle of Kolin in June 1757, one of the engagements of the Seven Years War. Clio the Muse 22:57, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

Jean Rasczak said "Come on you apes. You want to live forever?" Lanfear's Bane

As did most likely, and entirely without prejudice, Aldo. Rockpocket 18:27, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

It has been repeated famously many times, such as 1st Sgt. Dan Daly in the Battle of Belleau Wood, June 1918. Daly, who had received 2 Congressional Medals of Honor prior to World War 1, finding his men "besieged, outnumbered, outgunned, and pinned down,.. led his men in attack, shouting, 'Come on, you sons of bitches, do you want to live forever?'" Those Marines sure know how to quote famous kings. The Daly article attributes the original quotation as above to "Friedrich der Große" on 18 June 1757 at the Battle of Kolin, "Kerls, wollt ihr denn ewig leben?" Oddly, I did not see it in the article about Frederick the Great. Edison 06:22, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

Verizon Wireless

i am just trying this out so my question is who created the verizon wireless company?

Did you look at the Verizon article? Donald Hosek 18:29, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

Moscow metro station named after Royal Family murderer

From the news: "On July 17, the remembrance day of the Russian Royal Family, the Union of Orthodox citizens prayed for renaming of the metro station Voikovskaya that was named after Peter Voikov, a Soviet commissar who was directly relevant to the death of Nicholas II of Russia and their family."[2]

I'm seeking details about Voikov's involvement in the regicide/infanticide in order to incorporate them into our article. All I know is that this former Menshevik was killed in Warsaw and lies buried on Red Square. --Ghirla^-трёп- 19:34, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

A google book search revealed little other than Voikov apparently liked to boast of his role in the assassination of the royals and it was his role in the assassination that led to his own death (The Secret File of Joseph Stalin: A Hidden Life by Roman Brackman). There were some potentially helpful works that turned up that had limited access, so it might be worthwhile pulling references out of Google Books and then heading to the library. Donald Hosek 20:42, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

Peter Voikov was born in 1888. The son of a mining engineer, he became involved in revolutionary activity at an early age, and was expelled both from grammar school and later from the St. Petersburg Mining Institute. He went into exile in Switzerland, where he graduated from the University of Geneva. On returning to Russia in August 1917 he joined the Bolsheviks, and was appointed People's Commissar for Government Supply for the Ural region in 1918, where he was known by his party code name of 'Intellectual'. He subsequently became an important member of the Ural Soviet. He knew N. N. Ipatiev, and had visited the house before it was selected as the final residence of the Romanovs. It seems to have been on the basis of information supplied by Voikhov that Ipatiev was summoned to the office of the Soviet at the end of April 1918 and ordered to vacate what was soon to be called 'The House of Special Purpose.' Clearly party to the decision to murder the royal family, Voikov was given the specific task of arranging for the disposal of their remains, obtaining 150 gallons of gasoline and 400 pounds of sulphuric acid, the latter from the Ekaterinburg pharmacy. After the killings he was to declare that "The world will never know what we did with them." His role in the affair was fully investigated by the commission set up after the White Army captured Ekaterinburg from the Bolsheviks. Voikov was appointed Soviet ambassador to Poland in 1924, and was assassinated in Warsaw in 1927 by a Russian monarchist for his part in the killing of Nicholas and his family. You will find all of this information, Ghirla, in The Last Tsar: the Life and Death of Nicholas II by Edvard Radzinsky and Nicholas and Alexandra by Robert K. Massie. If you need the page references please let me know. Clio the Muse 22:49, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

Thank you, Clio. I actually read Radzinsky's book years ago, but I don't have it handy at the moment. Of course, I incorporated your reply into the article, adding information about his role in the sale of the Fabergé Eggs to foreigners in the early 1920s. --Ghirla^-трёп- 21:29, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

All China Youth Federation

I can't find the article on this - it is one of the most important political organizations in China, the two most recent presidents were members. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.189.98.44 (talk • contribs) 21:07, 26 July 2007

Wikipedia is the encyclopedia that anyone can edit! Just click on All-China Youth Federation, and add whatever content describes it best. I've added a stub in case you haven't registered yet (you have to get a free registration to create new articles). --TotoBaggins 22:37, 26 July 2007 (UTC)