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August 27[edit]

So-and-so's law[edit]

There is a "somebody's law" a la Murphy's, Parkinson's, etc. that says: if your organization uses some statistic as a metric of performance, then that statistic will come under tremendous pressure of manipulation and cease to be useful for anything. We have an article about it, but I don't remember the title. Anyone know? Thanks. 2601:648:8202:350:0:0:0:2B99 (talk) 04:37, 27 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Goodhart's law, I believe. Firefangledfeathers (talk) 04:39, 27 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, that's the article I remembered. Thanks! 2601:648:8202:350:0:0:0:2B99 (talk) 05:58, 27 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

It explains the diarrhea of uninteresting scientific papers due to using the h-index as a measure of impact. --Lambiam 08:08, 27 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Egypt, end of slavery 19th century[edit]

Greetings,

Came across a blog post which refers to the role of a case of a Circassian woman slave named 'Shanigal' in helping Britishers end slavery in Egypt by asking for prosecution/ justice.

Related sentences in blog post goes as: What finally discredited slavery in Egypt was a prosecution brought by a Circassian slave woman, Shanigal, against her master for raping her. ... Shanigal went to the British authorities to obtained justice, and got it. In doing so, she showed up the massive injustice and hypocrisy towards slavery in the upper and middle classes, with the result that she dealt a major blow against it...

I did google for Shanigal/ Shenigal Egypt but it did not return any results other than said blog post. True that one can not rely on blog posts for accuracy still may be there is some mistake in name spelling or some thing. Is it possible to confirm any such rape prosecution by British authorities in Egypt in 19th century that might have helped issue of slavery effectively ending?

Thanks, Bookku, 'Encyclopedias are for expanding information and knowledge' (talk) 11:08, 27 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Is this source helpful? The spelling given is Shemsigul: [1]. 59.102.25.192 (talk) 12:06, 27 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks @ 59.102.25.192 , I have already taken note of Shemsigul in my draft article on slavery {{mono|(no doubt spelling of 'Shanigal' sounds a lot similar to 'Shemsigul' and a potent possibility would exist un til further research).But in Shemsigul's case, if I am not mistaken, there seem no mention of involvement of any British officials in providing justice, where as blog post confidently relates case of 'Shanigal' to facilitation of justice by British official and subsequent rooting out of slavery.

Warm regards Bookku, 'Encyclopedias = expanding information & knowledge' (talk) 05:47, 28 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Şemsî is a Turkish word of Arabic origin meaning "related to the Sun", and gül is a Turkish word of Persian origin meaning "rose". It is possible that the name Şemsîgül arose as a Turkification of a Circassian name Shenigal. If the date of 30 June 1854 is correct, Shemsigul cannot have presented her complaint to British officials. Until the British occupation of Egypt in 1882, Egypt was at least nominally under the control of the Ottoman Empire, and even remained so de jure until 1914. --Lambiam 09:58, 31 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The paper on silo.tips is based on the account in Toledano's book Slavery and Abolition in the Ottoman Middle East. As it is an original translation by Toledano of the report recorded in Ottoman Turkish, it is unlikely that the blog post has a different source for the same story. But the similarities are so extensive (Şemsigül was Circassian too, sold as a slave to the Ottoman Turks and brought to Egypt; her complaint too was that her master raped her, and it was equally remarkable for a slave to bring such a complaint and find redress) that it is almost certain the blog post is a garbled version of the account by Toledano. --Lambiam 10:28, 31 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Idiomatic translation[edit]

Hi Folks!! Could somebody give an idiomatic translation for Die Vervolgung von NS-Tätern im geteilten Deutschland. Thanks. Its for the Hans Globe article. scope_creep^Talk 12:03, 27 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The language desk might have more followers who could help you. But is "The persecution of Nazi perpetrators in divided Germany" not what it means? ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 12:27, 27 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Verfolgung can also mean "pursuit" or "prosecution". This review of the work suggests that "prosecution" (in the legal sense - Strafverfolgung) is the intended meaning. 59.102.25.192 (talk) 12:40, 27 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Hi @Baseball Bugs:, that's what I thought it meant. Another editor @NONIS STEFANO: has changed from Persecution to Prosecution. Hi @59.102.25.192:, Prosecution is more accurate? scope_creep^Talk 12:53, 27 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Baseball Bugs: Would it be normal to change the title, when the books states it The persecution of Nazi perpetrators in divided Germany It sound odd to me, changing a book title. scope_creep^Talk 12:57, 27 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Is there a source that translates the title? If not, is the book centered on legal trials and convictions of Nazis? If so, it should be "prosecute". The term "persecute" has a similar root to "prosecute" and "pursue" (having to do with "following"), but they have evolved to have distinct meanings in English. I've been amused to see the chase group in the Vuelta a España labeled grupo perseguidor. They're not persecuting the leaders, they're just following (chasing) them. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 13:19, 27 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Scope creep: I should have put it more forcefully: the German-language review of Ms Weinke's dissertation that I linked to makes it clear that it deals with the criminal prosecution of former Nazis. 59.102.25.192 (talk) 13:29, 27 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Excellent. Thanks Folks. scope_creep^Talk 13:39, 27 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Denazification? 2601:648:8202:350:0:0:0:2B99 (talk) 16:50, 27 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

More than half of the German adult population had been involved in keeping the Nazi program running; only for the more egregious crimes was prosecution a practical possibility. Former Nazis who were not prosecuted would still be removed, as part of the denazification effort, from influential positions. So these are not the same thing. --Lambiam 21:19, 27 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Denazification would've been a bit stronger if they didn't start worrying about communism after the first few years. Perhaps one of the few silver linings of Nazi nazis is they didn't cause Vietnam/Afghan-level quagmire and GOP-level lie-spreading. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 18:03, 30 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Much of the misery perpetrated by the Nazi regime was aided by their official promulgation of the antisemitic stab-in-the-back lie. "Public enlightenment" by the media after the Gleichschaltung under the direction of the Reich Ministry of Public Enlightenment and Propaganda under the direction of Goebbels was a pervasive bread-and-butter operation that made it virtually impossible for the German people to discern between the fiction of the Nazi state and reality. In comparison, the disinformation of Breitbart News, Fox, the GOP, Newsmax and One America News combined is child's play. --Lambiam 09:41, 31 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

No endless asymmetric resistance violence though. And forgot to say after losing power, while in power obviously was among the closest a government has ever been to 1948. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 14:55, 31 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]