Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Humanities/2022 February 27

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February 27[edit]

Who's quote this one may be?[edit]

"..Eyewitness history, flawed as it may be, is frequently more useful and accurate than attempts to reconstruct history through secondary sources once all those who witnessed the events are long dead..." *

I came across above in google book preview 2nd page of chapter 1. In the book above sentence is star marked means likely to be listed in notes or refs at the end of the book. But I did not preview access for end part of following book.

Who's quote this one may be? author's own or some one else?

  • Book name: "Subverted: How I Helped the Sexual Revolution Hijack the Women's Movement. United States, Ignatius Press, 2015." By 'Sue Ellen Browder'

Bookku, 'Encyclopedias = expanding information & knowledge' (talk) 14:26, 27 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

This isn't a quote of another author in the book, it's Browder's own commentary. --Soman (talk) 15:47, 27 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The asterisk is to a footnote on the same page, stating that when she herself was not an eyewitness, she used (as much as possible) the eyewitness accounts of others.  --Lambiam 18:40, 27 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
on side note, a journalist by career would depend on eyewitness accounts; what Browder says still leaves some flaws but still a good take.

Thanks to both of you.

Bookku, 'Encyclopedias = expanding information & knowledge' (talk) 05:05, 28 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

BTW User:Bookku, the whole quote is here (p. 11). Alansplodge (talk) 13:59, 28 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Alansplodge: This seems to be different edition of the same book on google books (than the which I read). Thanks for being very helpful.

Bookku, 'Encyclopedias = expanding information & knowledge' (talk) 14:06, 28 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

1791 Marine List[edit]

I'm working on the Samuel Loudon article. On Thomas Allen's Marine List of 1791 half way down it mentions "Samuel Loudon, New-York" as going or coming from somewhere on a ship. Can someone tell me what it says? Where is Loudon going or has come from AND the name of the ship. It looks like something interesting that I might want to add to the article. Thanks for the interpretation. --Doug Coldwell (talk) 16:11, 27 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

As far as I can figure out, the ship (as in 3+ fully rigged masts) North-Carolina owned by (?) Samuel Loudon was leaving "there" for New York on October 1st. I assume that "there" is Hartford, Connecticut, but I'm not certain about that. --Stephan Schulz (talk) 16:55, 27 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Just to be awkward, I read it as second-hand news about ships leaving from Oporto more than a month previously. I think you kind of have to read the paragraph backwards:
  • On the 14th of August, the brig belonging to Richard Yates arrived at Oporto, and various other ships left there.
  • These included Parmela and Samuel Loudon's North-Carolina.
  • 45 days later, the brig Parmela arrived in Hartford and conveyed this news to Thomas Allen.
  • The date was then the 1st of October. (This doesn't quite work, mind you, because that should be 47 days.)
 Card Zero  (talk) 21:33, 27 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Just from the text, that would also make sense. But Oporto is in Portugal, and I think this "marine list" is mostly from local data. It's not impossible that it collects data from all incoming ships, but I doubt that they would be that good at keeping logs on other ships... --Stephan Schulz (talk) 08:26, 28 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
A sailing time of 45 days is consistent with – even a bit longish for – a translatlantic trip.  --Lambiam 08:33, 28 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, maybe I should be reading it as "left [for] there" ... in which case the Parmela brought news of only two ships: the brig belonging to Richard Yates, and the Favourite - I infer the latter from the fact that it sailed for New York about seven weeks prior to the newspaper being printed, so this must be news from far away. However, as Lambiam points out below, this enterprising Louden of commerce might not be identical with Louden the librarian.  Card Zero  (talk) 10:26, 1 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
From the text we can infer that "Brig        , Bloom, belonging to Richard Yates" arrived in Oporto on the 14th of August, and that "Brig Parmela, F. Buckley" sailed from there on the 17th or 18th of August. For the other vessels reported as having left Oporto, from Schooner Sally to ship North-Carolina, we cannot infer more than that the moment of departure was earlier than that of the anonymous brig.  --Lambiam 08:58, 28 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Loudon's biographies reveal that next to having a print shop, he operated a bookstore and a library. Did he also manage a transatlantic shipping operation? One would expect to find some other references to such a formidable side job than this one brief entry in a marine list. Could this be a namesake of the printer?  --Lambiam 08:33, 28 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I think the typical format used in the entries in this marine list is <name of vessel>, <name of captain>, <port of registration>. So then this Samuel Loudon would have been the captain of a ship named North-Carolina.  --Lambiam 08:45, 28 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
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