Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2008 August 1

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August 1

IPA transcriptions

how do you spell both

Guerneville (pronounce like Verne if the V were a G and Ville and in Jill) and Ceoli see (the way the letter is pronounced) o lay in the International Phonetic Alphabet. this is for improvements i am making to the Guerneville, California article.^MY♥_INchile 02:25, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

Using the system at Help:IPA for English, Guernville is /ˈɡɜrnvɪl/ (write {{IPA-en|ˈɡɜrnvɪl}} in the article). "see-o-lay" is /siːoʊleɪ/, but I can't tell from your transcription where the stress is supposed to be. —Angr 05:02, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

1gurn2vil 1see2oh3lay, that's them broken up by syllable.^MY♥_INchile 16:24, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

I've always heard it "gurneyvill". Is the CoC trying to go upmarket? Is it on it's way to becoming"gehrnvee"? Saintrain (talk) 22:09, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

Its definetely not guerneyvill or gurnvee i have never heard that, the only mispronunciation i have ever heard is guern-nuh-vill, some people pronounce it with 3 syllables but this is incorrect and a way to identify outsiders of the community.^MY♥_INchile 23:46, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

Summer Olympics

If my understanding is correct, when the Northern Hemisphere experiences summer, the Southern Hemisphere experiences winter ... and vice versa. So, the four seasons are always "opposite" as between the two hemispheres. Is my understanding correct? If so ... why are the upcoming Olympics referred to as the Summer Olympics? Since the event is clearly international and clearly global in scope ... and we live in such politically correct times ... isn't the term Summer Olympics (and the later Winter Olympics, for that matter) biased in favor of the Northern Hemisphere and biased against the Southern Hemisphere? Isn't the naming incorrect and inappropriate, at least for half the planet? Or am I missing something here? Do people in the Southern Hemisphere refer to these upcoming Olympics as the Summer Olympics, even though it occurs in their winter? Or do people in the Southern Hemisphere refer to these upcoming Olympics as their Winter Olympics? For consistency in official books and record books, etc., I can't imagine that the titles are interchangeable since that would lead to a lack of uniformity and much confusion. How exactly is this handled? And why would such a global / international committee (those who oversee the Olympics) perpetuate such a poor and biased misnomer? And has no one in the Southern Hemisphere complained in all these 100+ years? Any thoughts? Thanks. (Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 15:08, 1 August 2008 (UTC))

The names "Winter Olympics" and "Summer Olympics" do not necessarily refer to the season they are held in but to the different types of sports. The Summer Olympics traditionally feature summer sports like running, sailing, etc, while the Winter Olympics feature winter sports like skiing, skating etc. The 1956 Summer Olympics, being held in Australia, took place from November to December but were still called "Summer Olympics". (I don't think the Winter Olympics have ever been held in the Southern hemisphere, but presumably they would be held in July or August and still be called Winter Olympics). -- Ferkelparade π 16:06, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

The 1956 Summer Olympics were held in summer, November and December ARE summer in Australia, the seasons are opposite the northern hemisphere, June and July are winter there while they are summer up here. The names of the winter/summer olympics are actually just northemocentric.^MY♥_INchile 16:22, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

Apparently the summer games have taken place in the southern hemisphere only twice: Melbourne 1956 (and the equestrian events were in Sweden -- too far to fly the horses?), and Sydney 2000. (The Sydney games were held in September, which technically isn't summer in either north or south.) The winter games have always been in the northern hemisphere. (Nobody asked; I was just curious.) OtherDave (talk) 16:37, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

Re Sydney: If I recall correctly, the equestrian events for the 1956 Olympics were held in Sweden because of strict quarantine requirements. --jpgordon^∇∆∇∆ 17:16, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

If the 1958 summer olympics were held in Australia when it was summer in Australia AND were called the Summer Olympics, then I don't think it is correct to say the naming of the olympics is northernocentric. What is northernocentric is the idea that November and December are in the winter. Wanderer57 (talk) 17:29, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

As others have noted, it's not when it is held, but what type of events. As I understand it, by regulation all sports in the the Winter Olympics need to have something to do with snow or ice. All other events are saved of the Summer Olympics. While needing snow and ice limits the Winter Olympics to climactic winter (in non-tropical countries, I might add), nothing limits the Summer Olympics to taking place during climactic summer, except the difficulties of holding outdoor track and field events when there is snow covering the ground. -- 128.104.112.147 (talk) 17:50, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

_{I would hate to experience a climactic winter. I'd probably end up with blue balls. Matt Deres (talk) 18:58, 1 August 2008 (UTC)}

Melbourne 1956 (not 1958): They started in November (which was spring here and fall/autumn in the NH) and ended in December (which was summer here and winter in the NH).

Sydney 2000: They were held in September-October, which was spring here and fall/autumn in the NH.

That's according to the official start of the seasons in Australia - 1st of December, March, June, September, for summer, autumn, winter and spring respectively; they may differ in other countries-- JackofOz (talk) 21:29, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

The most important thing is that the weather be appropriate for the given type of sports. So, you need reasonably warm weather for running, swimming, etc., and cold weather for skiing, skating, etc. In the temperate zones in both the Northern and Southern hemispheres, that depends on whether it is summer or winter at that location. However, in the tropics it's always warm, so you could never have a "Winter Olympics there" (unless at high elevations or indoors with snow and ice-making machines). Conversely, in the arctic and antarctic regions, it's always cold, so you could have Winter Olympics year round. You might actually want to have them when it's warmest there, as the low temps and few hours of daylight would be a problem in actual winter. StuRat (talk) 14:35, 2 August 2008 (UTC)

Thanks very much to all for the input above ... it was very helpful and informative! So, the games are essentially named for the type of sport, not the season in which held (per Ferkelparade, and others). The "requirement" of having appropriate weather conditions (per StuRat and User 128.104) to actually stage the appropriate events makes sense. Thanks again to all. (Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 14:40, 2 August 2008 (UTC))

Free dual language Spanish-English books

There are lots of books with English and Spanish translations of short stories on facing pages. I have found these useful for improving vocabulary and reading fluency, since the exact usage of a word or the exact meaning of an idiom are learned without slogging through numerous dictionary definitions, which tends t derail the reading process. I have not been able to find any at all available free online. I would expect that some kind person might have done the translating of public domain classics or of their own works. A Google search only turned up Spanish-English books with "free" shipping for high prices. Does anyone know of any such resources free online? Thanks. Edison (talk) 22:37, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

You can go to Biblos.com: Search, Read, Study the Bible in Many Languages and open different versions in different languages in different windows. -- Wavelength (talk) 04:37, 2 August 2008 (UTC)

That's one classic. Anything else ?Edison (talk) 12:37, 2 August 2008 (UTC)

One workaround you can try: see what's available at Spanish Gutenberg for Spanish-language classics, then search for English-language translations at English Gutenberg or the Online Books Page. You'll get at least Don Quixote this way. (Spanish literature might help narrow the search.) Cheers, WikiJedits (talk) 14:37, 2 August 2008 (UTC)

P.S. some other possibilities: (1) Children's songs in Spanish with English translations. (2) Government brochures that are available in more than one language. Here's one about Toronto. Or these about health. Probably you can find some from various U.S. governments as well. Best, WikiJedits (talk) 14:47, 2 August 2008 (UTC)

From my Google search for "multilingual websites" the tenth result (of 212,000) is Tips for Translators: Multilingual Websites with Parallel Texts, which has a categorized list of multilingual websites. -- Wavelength (talk) 16:20, 2 August 2008 (UTC)

[Correction: "Multilingual websites" --> "multilingual websites"] -- Wavelength (talk) 16:27, 2 August 2008 (UTC)

You might want to use VoyCabulary.com - Online web dictionary & thesaurus word linking lookup reference tool. -- Wavelength (talk) 16:30, 2 August 2008 (UTC)

The United Nations website (http://www.un.org/) has the Universal Declaration of Human Rights (http://www.un.org/Overview/rights.html) in 335 languages: UDHR: Alphabetical Listing of All Translations at http://www.unhchr.ch/udhr/navigate/alpha.htm. -- Wavelength (talk) 19:03, 2 August 2008 (UTC)

The End of False Religion Is Near! - Jehovah's Witnesses Official Web Site is available in 314 languages. -- Wavelength (talk) 19:11, 2 August 2008 (UTC)

[The website http://www.watchtower.org/ is obsolete, but Wayback Machine has archives of the English version of the tract "The End of False Religion Is Near!" indexed at https://web.archive.org/web/*/http://www.watchtower.org/e/kn37/article_01.htm. Archives of the tract in other languages can be accessed via https://web.archive.org/web/*/http://www.watchtower.org/languages.htm. Today the official website of Jehovah's Witnesses is http://www.jw.org, and the tract in English is at http://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1102006290. At this time, it is available on that website in 171 additional languages.

—Wavelength (talk) 00:28, 31 December 2014 (UTC)]

You might be able to benefit from Language Tools. -- Wavelength (talk) 19:17, 2 August 2008 (UTC)

You might want to investigate Welcome to the UN. It's your world. and United Nations Radio: to see how much you can find in parallel texts. -- Wavelength (talk) 19:52, 2 August 2008 (UTC)

You might be interested in BBC World Service | Languages and VOA News - Voice of America Homepage - News in 45 Languages. -- Wavelength (talk) 19:59, 2 August 2008 (UTC)

Wikibooks is multilingual. Maybe you can find equivalent texts in English and Spanish. -- Wavelength (talk) 20:05, 2 August 2008 (UTC)

Many good suggestions, thanks. Edison (talk) 18:02, 3 August 2008 (UTC)