Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2012 January 26

Add links
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Language desk
< January 25 << Dec | January | Feb >> January 27 >
Welcome to the Wikipedia Language Reference Desk Archives
The page you are currently viewing is an archive page. While you can leave answers for any questions shown below, please ask new questions on one of the current reference desk pages.


January 26[edit]

Groundhog Day[edit]

On 12:47, 3 February 2006 a certain IP known for many unsourced contributions added a "Scottish poem" (see [1]) to Groundhog Day. Six years later the poem is still in the article. Is there any reference outside Wikipedia, its online clones or book clones for such a poem? --Pp.paul.4 (talk) 17:05, 26 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I've found one or two of uncertain reliability, but this article from the Farmer's Almanac (of which I am only vaguely aware, but understand to be a respected publication) may be useful. However they all seem to postdate the poem's addition to our article, and only describe it as a traditional Scottish poem, with no further information on authorship or provenance. AJCham 17:32, 26 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Three separate rhymes quoted in Richard Inwards Weather Lore (1893), an anthology of traditional weather wisdom, seem to have a bearing on this. The first (p. 15) goes:
On Candlemas Day
You must have half your straw and half your hay.
The second (p. 15):
If Candlemas Day be fair and bright,
Winter will have another flight.
But if Candlemas Day bring clouds and rain,
Winter is gone and won't come again.
The third (p. 16):
On Candlemas Day, if the thorns hang a drop,
Then you are sure of a good pea crop.
The differences between these and the lines added by the IP are quite slight. Inwards sources none of his rhymes apart from saying that the last one comes from Sussex. It looks to me like Wikipedia has created one poem out of several, and everyone else has, as usual, followed us. --Antiquary (talk) 21:42, 26 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
And just to add more, my copy of the 1873 (enlarged by Henry Ellis) edition of John Brand's Observations on the Popular Antiquities of Great Britain, while not quoting any of the foregoing rhymes, quotes from the "Country Almanack for 1676", "Foul weather is no news, hail, rain and snow / Are now expected and esteem'd no woe; / Nay, 'tis an omen bad, the yeomen say, / If Phœbus shews his face the second day", and cites as an adage of "old country people in Scotland", "If Candlemas is fair and clear, / There'll be twa winters in the year." I agree, however, that the "poem" presented in our article is likely to be a conflation of multiple traditional adages and that it's probably misleading to present it as a single poem. Deor (talk) 22:30, 26 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I agree, a conflation of multiple traditional adages without special reference to Scotland. I removed the poem from de:Groundhog Day (which I rewrote completely). Note the interesting quote from Westphalia there: "If the badger sees his shadow on Candlemas Day between 11 a.m. and noon, it has to stay in its burrow for another four weeks" (Adalbert Kuhn: Sagen, Gebräuche und Märchen aus Westfalen, 2. Teil: Gebräuche und Märchen, Leipzig:Brockhaus 1859, page 118) --Pp.paul.4 (talk) 01:51, 27 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Polish to English questions[edit]

Hi! I would like to know the English translations for the following Polish items:

This is because I want to have English versions of this made, and I would also like to have Japanese versions made too (but I need the English first)

Thank you, WhisperToMe (talk) 18:25, 26 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

"Route of Japan Airlines Flight 123"
"Explosion site"
"Mount Osutaka" or "Osutaka Hill"
"Part A" "Part B"
"Repairs carried out correctly"
"Repairs carried out incorrectly" Dominus Vobisdu (talk) 22:35, 26 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you very much! The new image requests are at Commons:Commons:Graphic_Lab/Illustration_workshop#English_versions_of_diagrams WhisperToMe (talk) 23:23, 26 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

what do we use the prague school for?[edit]

AM AN ENGLISH STUDENT.AND AM LOST IN THE MODULE OF LINGUISTICS.ESPECIALLY IN THE PRAGUE SCHOOL AND THE LONDON SCHOOL.WHAT IS THE BEST WAY OF EASY LEARNING? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Khoulyou sezar (talk • contribs) 18:56, 26 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

What specifically is your question? A good method of learning? This article seems to address some different types of learning. In my experience it varies a lot by the individual - just because somebody learns best by listening doesn't mean that that works for the person next to them. Also, generally it's best to not write in ALL CAPS; it is like shouting, and (for me at least) makes it far more difficult to read and understand the question. Falconusp t c 00:37, 27 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I think the questioner is referring to the Prague school and to the London school... --Theurgist (talk) 01:29, 27 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
The three leading schools of quasi-phonemic analysis in the mid 20th-century were American structuralism, "Prosodic analysis" / Firthianism / London school and the Prague school (though there was little of the Prague school left in Prague after the Nazis and the Soviets came through). If you have a more specific question, we might attempt to answer it... AnonMoos (talk) 06:00, 27 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Spanish help: translating "cool smiles"[edit]

Okay, in translating "Cool Smiles" (as in "those smiles are very cool!") what would be the best Spanish phrases? Does "sonrisas guayas" work? Is this true for all countries? If different countries have different sayings, then what are they?

Thanks, WhisperToMe (talk) 19:05, 26 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

To get a useful answer, I think you need to give some context. Exactly what do you mean by a "cool smile"? Distanced? Confident? Attractive? Something else? The plural in your question ("those smiles") is paticularly confusing (Who is smiling? Why?) --NorwegianBlue talk 23:55, 27 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
It's the name of a company. The English name is "Kool Smiles" - with "kool" being a deliberate misspelling of "cool" WhisperToMe (talk) 06:11, 29 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Surely you don't need to translate the name of a company or group or whatever. For example the Rolling Stones are not called 'Las piedras rodobandas' (or whatever) just like English speaking people wouldn't call Spanish firms or groups by some English translation. Royal Madrid FC? nah. Richard Avery (talk) 08:41, 29 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I agree with Richard Avery. I checked with Google Maps street view, and, in addition to a lot of shops having proper names like Gucci, Chanel, Louis Viton, I found the following:
  • Barcelona, Passeig de Gràcia: Fresh & Ready, McDonalds, (non-Spanish genitive), Replay, Prestige, Farggi Tubs & Ice Cream, Camper, Beep informática, Sony Gallery, Kiddy's Class, L'Occitan en Provence, The Phone House, United Colors of Benneton.
  • Madrid, Calle Serrano: Camper, Fancy Men, Caroli Health Club, Bodybell perfumerias, Sun Planet, The Phone House, Nico's (non-Spanish genitive), Ordning & Reda (Swedish!), Starbucks Coffee.
--NorwegianBlue talk 10:14, 29 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
On the other hand, there is The Laughing Cow / La vaca que ríe, and perhaps WhisperToMe is seeking an explanatory translation, as provided in our articles on Blaupunkt, Pobeda, or Bottega Veneta, for example. My feeling for Spanish isn't sufficiently fine-tuned to give an answer, however. ---Sluzzelin talk 22:45, 29 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
In fact, I now believe WhisperToMe is seeking an explanatory translation for the article they created on Spanish WP before posting this question here. In agreement with Richard Avery and NorwegianBlue's advice, the article was created under its English company name "Kool Smiles". ---Sluzzelin talk 00:09, 30 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, I am trying to explain what the name means to a Spanish speaking audience. The company's Spanish pages also use the company name "Kool Smiles" so I use the name "Kool Smlles" in the Spanish articles. WhisperToMe (talk) 03:34, 30 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
The problem you have here is that "cool" (or "kool") in Spanish varies among countries. Sonrisas Frescas could be an option, but that also translates back to English as "Fresh Smiles". Also, part of the problem is that the term fresco (when used to talk about someone) can also mean someone who is negligent or shameless. It all depends on the context in which you use the term. The Royal Spanish Academy identifies "fresco" as ([Someone who is] calm and who does not shrink in the face of danger or contradictions, [2]; which I think fits in with "cool").
To sum things up, I recommend you use Sonrisas Frescas unless you know the nationality of your audience. They should understand what you mean, and in the worst of cases you can defend yourself by pointing to the Royal Spanish Academy. I hope this helps.--MarshalN20 | Talk 02:29, 31 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
The context that "Kool" is being used may be giving off connotations of "awesome" or "neat" - the logo seems to suggest a "happy" connotation. Also, the audience of the Spanish Wikipedia comes from multiple countries. While I made the article for the benefit of low income Spanish speaking immigrants in the United States (most of whom come from Mexico and Central America), I want the article to be accessible to all Spanish speaking audiences. So what I would like is, say, how Mexican Spanish, Cuban Spanish, Central American Spanish, Argentine Spanish, Iberian Spanish, etc. would treat this name. Thank you WhisperToMe (talk) 02:55, 31 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you for the explanation. I'm glad you're taking into account all of the Spanish-speaking audience, but that is not an easy task. I know that the term "chido" for Mexicans has a close similarity to the definition of "cool", but non-Mexican Spanish speakers will not understand what you mean (perhaps other Central/Caribbean Americans could understand you, but the Spaniards and South Americans will be at a loss). If what you want to convey is "Happy Smiles", then "Sonrisas Felices" should do the trick with all Spanish-speaking people (regardless of nation or socioeconomic status). However, do take a look at Wiktionary ([3]), which suggests the term "genial" (i.e., "Sonrisas Geniales"). Wiktionary's option is actually quite good, and "Genial" is not a slang term.
Once again, to sum things up: Use either "Sonrisas Felices" (if you want to convey happy) or "Sonrisas Geniales" (which may be what you are looking for; my understanding of genial does relate both to "Cool" and "happy"). As such, my recommendation is to use the second term. However, both are good, and it's ultimately your choice. Best of wishes.--MarshalN20 | Talk 05:41, 31 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you for the advice! I think I'll try "Sonrisas Geniales" WhisperToMe (talk) 07:20, 31 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Retrieved from "https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Archives/Language/2012_January_26&oldid=1138616255"