Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2016 July 6
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July 6[edit]
Remedial writing[edit]
What is a typical syllabus and literature for a remedial writing course for high school students heading to college? --Hofhof (talk) 14:00, 6 July 2016 (UTC)
- I googled "Remedial writing programs for high school students" and got many hits, including. http://www.diannecraft.org/language-arts-writing-program/. Loraof (talk) 17:09, 6 July 2016 (UTC)
Narner[edit]
What is a "narner" in British English? It seems to mean a foolish or gormless person, a bit of an idiot. Is it anything connected with a banana? Thank you. 86.188.121.105 (talk) 18:11, 6 July 2016 (UTC)
- See wiktionary:nana#Etymology_1 Rojomoke (talk) 18:48, 6 July 2016 (UTC) (restored after accidental deletion)
- I believe Rojo is implying that it means they are as intelligent as a banana. There are many similar insulting comparisons with food, like "muttonhead" and "meathead" or calling a person a "vegetable". StuRat (talk) 19:47, 6 July 2016 (UTC)
- Or maybe an allusion to a banana-shaped part of the male anatomy. Who knows? Alansplodge (talk) 19:58, 6 July 2016 (UTC)
- I believe Rojo is implying that it means they are as intelligent as a banana. There are many similar insulting comparisons with food, like "muttonhead" and "meathead" or calling a person a "vegetable". StuRat (talk) 19:47, 6 July 2016 (UTC)
- (edit conflict) The Oxford Learners Dictionaries Online says "(old-fashioned, British English, informal) a stupid person. Word Origin - 1960s: perhaps a shortening of banana". I think they may be the only people in Britain who are in any doubt about it being a shortening of banana. I haven't heard it uttered for some years. Alansplodge (talk) 19:51, 6 July 2016 (UTC)
- Is it ever used other than in the phrase "a right nana"? I've never heard it used on its own. Tevildo (talk) 23:52, 6 July 2016 (UTC)
- The song "My Old Man's a Dustman", i think, has the line "he looks a proper nana in [garments]". —Tamfang (talk) 01:25, 7 July 2016 (UTC)
- The way the Rovers sing it, anyway, to me it sounds like "he looks so proper done up in his great big hobnail boots."[1] But this earlier recording by Lonnie Donegan certainly sounds like "nana".[2] ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 01:47, 7 July 2016 (UTC)
- My Old Man's a Dustman is the article, apparently based on a First World War soldiers' ditty, but sharing none of the exact lyrics. This site has: "He looks a proper narner...". Alansplodge (talk) 08:24, 7 July 2016 (UTC)
- It sounds exactly like "looks a proper nana" to me in the Irish Rovers' recording (at 1:39). AndrewWTaylor (talk) 12:26, 7 July 2016 (UTC)
- And the Irish don't drop the trailing "r", so "nana" seems more likely than "narner". But it could also be a variation in the lyrics. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 14:35, 7 July 2016 (UTC)
- "Narner" mimics the pronunciation in a London accent. Lonnie Donegan, who grew up in East Ham, first sang the song (in its current form) in 1960. Alansplodge (talk) 21:22, 7 July 2016 (UTC)
- Rhotic Americans are sometimes confused by non-rhotic British respellings with r's in them. Sade once wrote in her liner notes that her name was pronounced "shar-day" or some such, which completely misled a lot of her American fans. Americans would have pronounced it the way she wanted, if she had only written "shah-day", but apparently that means some different sound to the British; I've never understood exactly what. The Penguin Book of Card Games claims that skat is pronounced scart, and my father insisted on pronouncing it that way (rhotically) when I taught it to my parents. --Trovatore (talk) 07:36, 8 July 2016 (UTC)
- That would have introduced the risk of "Shadday", with the "cat" vowel. Tevildo (talk) 08:03, 8 July 2016 (UTC)
- What, is that how they pronounce shah? I guess a nation capable of ‘Nicaræg-yua’ shouldn't surprise me. —Tamfang (talk) 08:32, 9 July 2016 (UTC)
- Well, /ʃæ/ is the "obvious" BrE pronunciation of "shah", until one hears about the Shah of Persia. The obvious pronunciation of the singer's name is /seɪd/, to rhyme with "maid" - the first correction would be to /sɑːd/, as in "Marquis de", which - um - rhymes with lots of words with an "r" in them (card, hard, lard, guard...). Tevildo (talk) 08:50, 9 July 2016 (UTC)
- What, is that how they pronounce shah? I guess a nation capable of ‘Nicaræg-yua’ shouldn't surprise me. —Tamfang (talk) 08:32, 9 July 2016 (UTC)
- That would have introduced the risk of "Shadday", with the "cat" vowel. Tevildo (talk) 08:03, 8 July 2016 (UTC)
- Rhotic Americans are sometimes confused by non-rhotic British respellings with r's in them. Sade once wrote in her liner notes that her name was pronounced "shar-day" or some such, which completely misled a lot of her American fans. Americans would have pronounced it the way she wanted, if she had only written "shah-day", but apparently that means some different sound to the British; I've never understood exactly what. The Penguin Book of Card Games claims that skat is pronounced scart, and my father insisted on pronouncing it that way (rhotically) when I taught it to my parents. --Trovatore (talk) 07:36, 8 July 2016 (UTC)
- "Narner" mimics the pronunciation in a London accent. Lonnie Donegan, who grew up in East Ham, first sang the song (in its current form) in 1960. Alansplodge (talk) 21:22, 7 July 2016 (UTC)
- And the Irish don't drop the trailing "r", so "nana" seems more likely than "narner". But it could also be a variation in the lyrics. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 14:35, 7 July 2016 (UTC)
- The way the Rovers sing it, anyway, to me it sounds like "he looks so proper done up in his great big hobnail boots."[1] But this earlier recording by Lonnie Donegan certainly sounds like "nana".[2] ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 01:47, 7 July 2016 (UTC)
- The song "My Old Man's a Dustman", i think, has the line "he looks a proper nana in [garments]". —Tamfang (talk) 01:25, 7 July 2016 (UTC)
- Is it ever used other than in the phrase "a right nana"? I've never heard it used on its own. Tevildo (talk) 23:52, 6 July 2016 (UTC)
- (edit conflict) The Oxford Learners Dictionaries Online says "(old-fashioned, British English, informal) a stupid person. Word Origin - 1960s: perhaps a shortening of banana". I think they may be the only people in Britain who are in any doubt about it being a shortening of banana. I haven't heard it uttered for some years. Alansplodge (talk) 19:51, 6 July 2016 (UTC)
- I would say so, but finding sources to back me up is proving unexpectedly difficult. I would make a clear distinction between /æ/ as in "Ah! There it is!", expressing pleasant surprise, and /ɑː/ as in "Ahh, that's better", expressing simple pleasure, but most on-line dictionaries give both meanings under the single interjection "Ah". Someone with access to more comprehensive sources might be able to assist. Tevildo (talk) 14:19, 11 July 2016 (UTC)
- TIL that (per our article) skat is derived from Italian scarto, and of course Italian is rhotic. So maybe my dad was right after all. That would please him. --Trovatore (talk) 04:47, 9 July 2016 (UTC)