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January 12[edit]

Origin of the phrase "Give it the old college try"[edit]

So what is the origin of the phrase "give it the old college try." — Preceding unsigned comment added by 204.9.108.110 (talk) 00:49, 12 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Looking for it in Newspapers.com (pay site, and not comprehensive), the first place I'm seeing it is in a writeup about an excellent fielding play in the 1912 World Series. There's also a 1917 article about Billy Sunday in which he attributes it to John McGraw. Whoever originated it, it's definitely associated with sports and with extra effort. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 01:49, 12 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Here's some more info, from Stack Exchange. It includes the Billy Sunday reference:[1] ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 01:53, 12 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I tried the OED Online, but it has no entry for "college try", and in fact the only use of the phrase in the whole dictionary is in a quotation suggesting that it's been obsolete for over 40 years! In 1976 somebody wrote (in a publication of the National Council of Teachers of English): "Our sports metaphors have changed with us. 'The good fight' and 'the old college try' have given way to the more sophisticated 'game plans', 'play-calling', and quarterbacking rhetoric of Vietnam and Watergate." --174.95.161.129 (talk) 05:52, 12 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

"The old college try" might be old-fashioned, but it specifically means "extra effort". ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 14:23, 12 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

What does "each" and "one" refer to?[edit]

Source

Sentence: Each was inadequate by itself, but fixing one approach with tools from the other would resolve the issue and produce a class number formula (CNF) valid for all cases that were not already proven by his refereed paper. Rizosome (talk) 12:10, 12 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Each refers to all the approaches, and one refers to an arbitrarily chosen approach. —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 12:20, 12 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Those being the Kolyvagin–Flach approach and Iwasawa theory per preceding sentence: "... but his original attempts using Iwasawa theory could be made to work if he strengthened it using his experience gained from the Kolyvagin–Flach approach since then." 2003:F5:6F0C:8700:9D4B:4539:6228:AE5D (talk) 22:58, 12 January 2021 (UTC) Marco PB[reply]

So, in the context, "one approach" refers to "(his original attempts using) Iwasawa theory" and "the other" refers to "the Kolyvagin–Flach". Substituting these in the sentence, we get:

Each of the Kolyvagin–Flach approach and Iwasawa theory was inadequate by itself, but fixing his original attempts using Iwasawa theory with tools from the Kolyvagin–Flach approach would resolve the issue and ...

--Lambiam 23:08, 12 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

<-- This blinking light indicates the Grammar Police are pulling you over for a violation.^{[citation needed]} "Neither the Kolyvagin–Flach approach nor the Iwasawa theory was adequate by itself, ..." is acceptable. Clarityfiend (talk) 05:36, 13 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The phrasing "each of the A [singular] and B [singular]" is never used AFAIK, e.g. "Each of the police car and surveillance van is equipped with a radar gun", so it's a descriptive error. Whether there's a prescriptive rule against it, I don't know. Clarityfiend (talk) 23:45, 13 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Rarely perhaps, but never say never: [2], [3], [4]. --Lambiam 11:49, 14 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]