Language desk
< November 4	<< Oct \| November \| Dec >>	Current desk >

Welcome to the Wikipedia Language Reference Desk Archives
The page you are currently viewing is a transcluded archive page. While you can leave answers for any questions shown below, please ask new questions on one of the current reference desk pages.

November 5[edit]

Simple englishlike words - vowels[edit]

I've been trying to create a spreadsheet of many simple englishlike words. So far I've got to 1 syllable, 2 letter (C+V) combinations, but I ran into the word "your" and realized I missed a word. Also I think my vowel list might be flawed because of all the other accents: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Appendix:English_pronunciation

What vowels should I use?

Here's my current vowel list:

1. a > cat, can
2. a > car, aw, palm
3. i > kit
4. a > comma, u > strut, plus
5. e > dress
6. oo > foot
7. ee > flee, y > happy
8. oo > goose
9. i > price
10. oi > coin
11. ou > mouth
12. a > face
13. oa > goat
14. o > or

AltoStev ^Talk 16:27, 5 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

You might try looking at the "Vowels" table at Help:Pronunciation respelling key, though you may not need to differentiate all of them for your purpose (which is unclear to me). Deor (talk) 16:38, 5 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Since you're already using "strut", "price", "goose" and others, I suppose you've already heard of Lexical sets. Is the list provided there helpful for you? Fut.Perf. ☼ 17:26, 5 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, both links are very helpful! (I actually haven't heard of lexical sets, much of this was modified/based on examples from other articles and sources from the internet.) Thanks. And my purpose was to make a lot smallish "simple" words like "nabe" which may or may not be in English, I guess for fun. AltoStev ^Talk 18:24, 5 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

You might like the book The Meaning of Liff' which may have inspired Sniglets. 2601:648:8202:350:0:0:0:D4A (talk) 20:52, 5 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

AltoStev -- as a practical matter, it would probably be simpler for practical purposes to treat vowels before "r" as a different system from vowels not before "r", because trying to unify them can be problematic or complicated, at least in some dialects of English... AnonMoos (talk) 22:02, 5 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Poor sod[edit]

Is "poor sod" (i.e. person who experiences misfortune) gender specific? It sounds masculine to me, but I think it is also a Britishism, so I'm not that well attuned (I'm from US). Is there a comparable term in English that is not gender specific? I thought of schlimazel but I think that is ethnic slang in places other than New York. Thanks. 2601:648:8202:350:0:0:0:D4A (talk) 20:35, 5 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Sodomite is pretty gender specific? Martinevans123 (talk) 20:48, 5 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Um, that doesn't convey the meaning I'm looking for, independently of its gender specificity or lack of it. Thanks though, I guess. Added: Oh hmm, are you "sod" is short for "sodomite"?! That never occurred to me. Interesting, and maybe the term is less polite than I had thought it was. 2601:648:8202:350:0:0:0:D4A (talk) 20:55, 5 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

wikt:sod: Etymology 2. Maybe in future you'd be safer sticking to something more neutral? Martinevans123 (talk) 21:39, 5 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I think you'd rarely find it applied to females, though it does sometimes happen in my experience. Something neutral, but a bit less rude, would be "poor thing". -- zzuuzz ^(talk) 21:33, 5 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Usually applied to males, though I see no reason for it not to be used of a female. It's not noticeably rude (no more so than damn or blast), nor is it derogatory. It's usually used as an expression of genuine sympathy. I don't think I've ever seen the word "schlimazel" before. DuncanHill (talk) 22:24, 5 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Obviously not a Laverne & Shirley fan. "In the opening credits, Laverne and Shirley recite '1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 Schlemiel! Schlimazel! Hasenpfeffer Incorporated,' a Yiddish-American hopscotch chant". Clarityfiend (talk) 05:03, 6 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I've never watched it, in fact I don't think I've ever even seen it in the television listings. DuncanHill (talk) 18:05, 6 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

OED has as a meaning for "sod" "Familiarly or playfully: expressing affection, commiseration, etc., for a person or (less commonly) an animal", and includes a citation to John Masefield in 1911 (The Everlasting Mercy, if you want to look it up). DuncanHill (talk) 22:28, 5 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

We even have an article: The Everlasting Mercy. [1] Martinevans123 (talk) 22:36, 5 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

They went, and some cried 'Good old sod. / She put it straight to him, by God.' [2] Alansplodge (talk) 00:55, 6 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks all. "Poor thing" is too belittling in the context where I was looking for a term to use. Maybe I'll stick with poor sod, though the referent I had in mind is female. 2601:648:8202:350:0:0:0:D4A (talk) 03:44, 6 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

2601:648:8202:350:0:0:0:D4A, it belatedly occurs to me to suggest that the equivalent expression "Poor cow" might be the more appropriate expression for a female referent. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 90.205.225.31 (talk) 21:34, 6 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

One of Ken's finest. Martinevans123 (talk) 23:30, 6 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Not as good as Silly Moo. DuncanHill (talk) 23:50, 6 November 2021 (UTC) [reply]

Ha! I was thinking great silly moo too. --jpgordon^{𝄢𝄆𝄐𝄇} 17:03, 8 November 2021 (UTC) [reply]

The Briticism "poor bugger" is close to identical in meaning, and of course also derives from a less-than-polite synonym for one who engages in anal intercourse, but is also equally innocuous in the speech register where they would be used at all. Note however that the terms "Sod off!" and "Bugger off!" are somewhat more inflammatory, though lacking the full force of "F**k off!" for which they are substitutes. [Edited to add: the preceding letter substitution was forced by a filter bot.] {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 90.205.225.31 (talk) 09:48, 6 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Those bots are so rude, aren't they. Martinevans123 (talk) 10:02, 6 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Just tell them to fuсk оff. --Lambiam 17:42, 6 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Bugger the fuck off you sodding bots. Thankyou, I feel better now. Martin Margolyes123 (talk) 17:49, 6 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Don't forget the Latin pronunciation :-) MarnetteD|Talk 18:39, 7 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]