Miscellaneous desk
< October 17	<< Sep \| Oct \| Nov >>	October 19 >

Welcome to the Wikipedia Miscellaneous Reference Desk Archives
The page you are currently viewing is an archive page. While you can leave answers for any questions shown below, please ask new questions on one of the current reference desk pages.

October 18[edit]

Who is the Jonathan King in this photo?[edit]

Resolved

– Consensus is that it is indeed the JK.

Is the photo File:Jonathan King Allan Warren.jpg of Jonathan King, or some other Jonathan King? Allan Warren is the photographer.Google image search for Jonathan King--Tagishsimon (talk) 02:21, 18 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I can't see any obvious reason why it couldn't be 'the' Jonathan King - Allan Warren seems to have been photographing notables from the music business at the time the photo is supposed to have been taken - and if you look at the photo gallery on Warren's article, the 'posed' style seems similar.AndyTheGrump (talk) 02:32, 18 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I can't see the resemblance, and I cannot see another JK image with a beard. The posed style seems immaterial - we know it's by AW and hence in his style; that would apply were it to be another JK. I accept that 'the' JK is highly likely given AW's interests, but I'm still yet to be convinced. And for whatever reason, AW's not talking. --Tagishsimon (talk) 02:40, 18 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

JK image with beginnings of beard: [1]. From what I remember, the fashion for full face-fungus amongst the mainstream UK 'pop' crowd was relatively short-lived, so there may not be that much evidence about. As with most questions regarding photos, authenticity is going to be difficult to prove short of a statement by JK and/or AW though.AndyTheGrump (talk) 03:02, 18 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The resemblance seems pretty clear to me. --Viennese Waltz 07:36, 18 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I would have recognised it as Jonathan King. I dimly recall him wearing a beard every now and then during the 1970s.Alansplodge (talk) 12:24, 18 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Here's another picture of the bearded King; Jonathan King - Lazy Bones, andanother with similar glasses to the original post. Alansplodge (talk) 13:33, 18 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Both these discs date from 1971, thus giving us a datum point for his hirsuteness. Alansplodge (talk) 17:45, 18 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Ethnic food[edit]

What areas have the healthiest and least healthy ethnic foods? --168.7.239.131 (talk) 04:20, 18 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Well, soul food is among the worst, although even that has a few healthy items. See Soul_food#Healthiness. StuRat (talk) 04:35, 18 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

One might want to consider the French paradox. Bus stop (talk) 04:42, 18 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

And see Mediterranean diet. Duoduoduo (talk) 13:53, 18 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Japan, specifically Okinawa Island has been mentioned as having a very healthy local cuisine. --Saddhiyama (talk) 20:00, 18 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Not sure whether or not it would pass the "ethnic" classification bar, but surely Scottish food has to be considered in terms of being particularly unhealthy... gazhiley 10:31, 19 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Healthy, schmealthy. Virtually all foods can figure somewhere on a healthy diet, and virtually all foods can figure somewhere on a disastrouslyunhealthy diet. It's the quantities of each foodstuff; and the frequency of eating; and whether a particular foodstuff is eaten hourly, daily or less often; and whether eating occurs because of actual hunger or some emotional need; and the combinations of foods; and other lifestyle factors such as exercise and sleep - that collectively add up to health. No particular cuisine, in isolation from all these other factors, is inherently healthier or unhealthier than any other. -- Jack of Oz ^[Talk] 21:50, 19 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Some cuisines are inherently healthier than others. That is, if you want to eat soul food, you'd need to make a lot more compromises (skipping most of the items or eating tiny portions of them, for example) to end up healthy, than if you ate the Okinawa diet. StuRat (talk) 22:17, 19 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

That's exactly my point. When people say "I eat only American food", say, that is as vague a statement as you can possibly get. The precise foodstuffs eaten by different people making such a statement could be vastly different. Not to mention all the other factors I mentioned above. A person can eat an Okinawan diet and still die of clogged arteries and heart failure; and a person can eat a Scottish diet and be extremely healthy. The gross factor of the ethnicity of the cuisine plays virtually no part in this. -- Jack of Oz ^[Talk] 23:35, 19 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I think it's damn near impossible to die from clogged arteries if you live your whole life on the Okinawa diet. StuRat (talk) 23:46, 19 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

So, assuming that Okinawans are not immortal, what do they typially die from? ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 13:43, 20 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Rrrghl, the Okinawan diet! μηδείς (talk) 22:07, 20 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

WHAAOE. -- Jack of Oz ^[Talk] 01:23, 21 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

It talks a lot about what they don't die from, but I didn't see anything about what they do die from. My guess is overdosing on sweet potatoes (blecch!). ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?}carrots→ 03:08, 21 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

And all it talks about is the particular items of food that might be eaten. But each person has their own subset of those foods that they prefer. It doesn't talk about the 80/20 rule*, or their amazingly active lifestyles, and not just as young people but well into advanced age. These both play very important roles in keeping them healthy. Eat an Okinawan diet but gorge yourself at every meal and never do any exercise, and you'll finish up as unhealthy as anyone else.

(* This is the practice whereby one eats till one is about 80% of the way towards being "full", then stops. Okinawans always leave the table with the feeling that they could easily eat more if they had to. But what they have eaten is plenty for their body to make good use of, and to keep them going till next meal. This is very different from the massive overloads that many Westerners subject themselves to constantly, often without being aware they're doing so. This is a much more immediate concern than the makeup of whatever it was they ate. Overloading on salad can be just as bad for your health as overloading on chocolate.) -- Jack of Oz ^[Talk] 03:31, 21 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

There's a difference between Okinawa diet and Okinawa food. If you stuffed yourself with Okinawan braised pork for the rest of your life you will die from heart failure just as easily as if the pork was Scottish. --PalaceGuard008(Talk) 13:48, 21 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I'd think cancer might be a big killer. There's all those chemicals that bio-accumulate in the fish they eat, UV in the sunlight, and, if we're talking about people dying off now, the residual radiation from Nagasaki and Hiroshima and subsequent nuclear tests in the area may play a factor. Then, of course, there's smoking. StuRat (talk) 05:31, 23 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Cancer? Er, no.

They were lean, youthful-looking, energetic, and had remarkably low rates of heart disease and cancer-even stomach cancer, which claimed many mainland Japanese. [2]
Okinawa's elders (aged > 70 years) and centenarians in particular, also seem to have experienced a slower age-related decline and markedly delayed or avoided entirely the chronic diseases of aging, such as Alzheimer's Disease, cardiovascular disease and cancer.[3]

Eat a lot of fish? Er, no.

The traditional diet also includes a relatively small amount of fish (less than half a serving per day) and somewhat more in the way of soy and other legumes (6% of total caloric intake). Pork was highly valued, and every part of the pig was eaten, including internal organs. However, pork and fish were primarily eaten on holidays, and the everyday diet was almost exclusively plant based. ... The traditional Okinawa diet as described above has been practiced on the islands till the end of the World War II. Since then, dietary practices have been shifting towards Western and Japanese patterns, with fat intake rising to 27% of total caloric intake and the sweet potato being supplanted with rice and bread. ... their life expectancy rank among Japanese prefectures has plummeted in recent years. Okinawa diet. -- Jack of Oz ^[Talk] 20:20, 23 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Indian Space Research Organization[edit]

How close are the ties between ISRO and the Indian military? --168.7.232.144 (talk) 05:05, 18 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Our article mentions some interaction and resistance in the Applications section.Rmhermen (talk) 18:15, 18 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Ulan Bator[edit]

Is $800 USD per month enough to live on in Ulan Bator, taking apartment costs out of the question (because they are free for the job I've applied for)?KägeTorä - (影虎) (TALK) 13:04, 18 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Haven't lived there myself, but Google searches for "cost of living Ulan Bator" or similar will turn up a number of sites likethis one. Prices appear to be somewhat lower than in the west, and significantly lower than in major cities like London or New York. TenOfAllTrades(talk) 13:21, 18 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

If you don't have any housing costs and you're willing to live reasonably frugally, then $800/month (after tax) is enough to live on pretty much anywhere. After rent and utilities (which I'm assuming you are including in "apartment costs"), I don't spend much more than that a month and I live quite comfortably in London, one of the most expensive cities in the word. --Tango (talk) 18:33, 18 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Well, I smoke 10 a day, which is not too much and drink about 4-6 pints a day. I don't eat much. In the UK I was spending about £600 a month. so I suppose it will be OK. KägeTorä -(影虎) (TALK) 06:17, 19 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Smoke 10 what a day ? Those smokes and beers will be hard to get there. They likely have something to smoke and drink, but don't expect it to be comparable to what you're used to. StuRat (talk) 06:58, 19 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The key is lifestyle. If you simply cannot live without some foreign brand -- breakfast food, shampoo, toilet paper -- you'll pay heavily for it. However, there is almost certainly a local (or cheap imported) substitute that will fill the same need at a low cost. Second, how frequently do you need to get outdoors and walk in a relatively comfortable climate? Don't count on it for 8-10 months of the year. OR: in late July / early August, there can be frost on the ground. DOR (HK) (talk) 02:19, 19 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Not a worry about frost. I am from the North of England, and I'm used to the cold. If it gets too cold, I'll just put multiple coats on. When I came back from Japan for a visit in July 2004, I was freezing during a barbecue, and my uncle took a photo of me and told me to send it to my wife, saying, "England isn't really cold. We only wear ten coats in the summer." :) KägeTorä - (影虎) (TALK) 06:17, 19 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

There's really no comparison between the climate in the North of England and Ulan Bator. They have 3 months where the record low is -44°C:Ulan_Bator#Geography_and_climate. More coats isn't enough at those temps. You need every bit of skin to be covered with many layers of insulation, and need to preheat and moisten the air before you breath it, to prevent lung damage (or, more sensibly, stay inside during those months).StuRat (talk) 06:55, 19 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Do you have any references for that? Our article says there are a million people living in Ulan Bator, and they seem to manage just fine. I doubt they can avoid going outside all winter and I also doubt they have any way to preheating the air they breath (other than having some cloth over their face and breathing through that). Ulan Bator is certainly colder than Yorkshire, but it's evidently not uninhabitable (and I would characterise anywhere where you can't safely breath the air as uninhabitable). --Tango (talk) 16:01, 20 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The natives, having descended from many generations of people who live in such climates, have adapted to the climate both physically and behaviorally (since those of their ancestor who did not, died before passing on their genes). This likely includes staying inside at the coldest times, unless absolutely necessary. As far as preheating and premoistening the air, yes, that means not breathing it directly, but only after it has passed through layers of cloth, and mixed with exhaled air. This does decrease breathing efficiency, so adaptations are needed there, too, like increased lung capacity and tolerance for carbon dioxide, to compensate. StuRat (talk) 21:28, 20 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Stu, I went to school in Tianjin and visited Inner Mongolia several times for study trips during the winter when it was -40C. It didn't bother me. It was cold, yes, but not so much as to fry my lungs. I've had my fair share of cold places, believe me. KägeTorä - (影虎) (TALK) 22:39, 20 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Stu, those two replies are complete nonsense. You don't need multiple layers of insulation for everyday activities. It's thegarment that is the important part. In fact I've worn this andthis to walk 4 km (2.5 mi) at −40 °C (−40 °F) in a blizzard. Multiple layers, such as insulated underwear and such, do have their place but not really for city living. Nor is it necessary to cover every bit of skin. The only time I've worn a Balaclava (clothing) is while out for hours on a snowmobile where the problem isn't the temperature but the air passing across your face. You most certainly don't need to preheat or moisten your air before breathing. I've never seen anybody suffer lung damage because of cold air and that includes non-Inuit spending their first winter in the Arctic. Staying inside is really not an option when you have to go to work, hunt, go to the store or just go for a walk. Yep, we actually have people who walk every day of the year for exercise. You can't look at the extreme low and say anything useful about the climate. Take the average high and add to the average low and divide by 2 to get a rough mean, of −18.8 °C (−1.8 °F) (Dec),−21.5 °C (−6.7 °F) (Jan) and −17.8 °C (0.0 °F) (Feb) and you can see that the climate is much milder than looking at the record lows. Look atEdmonton#Climate. Their record lows for the same three months are colder than Ulan Bator but the daily means are higher. So which is the colder city. I've lived for 19 years in Ulukhaktok#Climate and 18 years Cambridge Bay#Climate. We have daily means of colder than −30 °C (−22 °F)and manage to live through it without having multiple generations adapting to it. The only concession we make here to the cold is that when the temperature alone dips below −40 °C (−40 °F) or the wind chill reaches -40 the primary school kids stay indoors at recess time.CambridgeBayWeather (talk) 02:15, 22 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

That's plenty. I live very comfortably on ~$500 per month south a bit in Shenyang, Liaoning, China and the conditions are not dramatically different. Provided you embrace local cuisine and products and don't insist on foreign brands, you'll have plenty of money. Hopefully the position paysmore than that though, so you can save a bit, as I do here. The Masked Booby (talk) 06:16, 19 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Well, I have a translation business, and this pays enough. I just hope they supply me an internet connection so I can do it. KägeTorä - (影虎) (TALK) 06:19, 19 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

If they have an Internet connection, I wouldn't expect it to be reliable. (If it goes down, I'm sure they'll get it back up in a month or so.)StuRat (talk) 06:59, 19 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Stu, I don't understand why you are so negative. I lived in Tianjin, China, and travelled to Mongolia (inner) in winter, and yes, it was cold, but it wasn't a problem. Also, they had their own brands of cigarettes - many without filters, and pretty terrible beer (at the time). I am, of course, worried about the internet connection, because I need this for my job, but I am pretty sure I will have one, because the job is at a university, and I would need it for that job, too. Mongolia is not all Asian cowboys, you know. They have cities, with people who live in them. It's not like Kansas.KägeTorä - (影虎) (TALK) 09:34, 19 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Well, you have to understand that moving to a third world nation will mean many compromises. Another is electricity. It may be unreliable.StuRat (talk) 18:08, 19 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Cheers, Stu, but after 17 years of travelling around the world, I think I know the score. KägeTorä - (影虎) (TALK) 18:21, 19 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Wait on, give the guy a break. Stu's just wanting to give you the benefit of his many years spent in Ulan Bator, Mongolia, which would be as good as a reference. Isn't that right, Stu? -- Jack of Oz ^[Talk] 21:37, 19 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

True, I must apologize. I am asking for info from people who know about living there, from experience, and Stu appears to know everything. I shall wait for Stu to reply with more vast information which I can use. KägeTorä - (影虎) (TALK) 22:01, 19 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Well, I do have years of experience with climates considerably colder than one gets in the North of England. StuRat (talk) 21:57, 19 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

However, this has nothing to do with electricity and internet connections. KägeTorä - (影虎) (TALK) 22:01, 19 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I've had beer from nearby Heilongjiang before (sorry I can't remember the brand) and it was acceptable. If your imports are Chinese or Russian, rather than American or Czech, you can probably do just fine. AlexTiefling (talk) 10:11, 19 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

My experience of Chinese beer has been pretty poor. I had Lidu and Beijing Wuxing, and both were terrible - they stunk of chemicals. Qingdao is palatable, but still pretty bad, compared to UK beer. American beer is like making love in a canoe, and Czech is too bubbly, too. I have never had Russian beer, so we will see. KägeTorä - (影虎) (TALK) 15:42, 19 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Oh, here I must protest. "American beer" is not just Budweiser and Coors, you know. Try an Arrogant Bastard sometime, if you think you're worthy. --Trovatore (talk) 22:04, 19 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Well, there is a type of beer in the UK, aptly named 'Cripple Dick', and apparently if you can drink a pint of that very quickly, and then walk around the brewery without falling over, they give you the brewery. But this is getting slightly off-topic. KägeTorä - (影虎) (TALK) 04:57, 20 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Arrogant Bastard is not just about alcohol content. I mean, it's strong for beer, about seven percent I think, but there are stronger ones; that's not what the name is about. --Trovatore (talk) 09:08, 20 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Having had some Arrogant Bastard on my last vacation, I have to say that being about as different from Bud Light as possible may seem like a good thing for a beer, but indeed just makes it horrible in a very different kind of way. --Stephan Schulz (talk) 10:04, 20 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Hmm, well, if AB is too much for you, you might ease into the West Coast style with Censored Ale by Lagunitas Brewing Company. Or maybe you're just used to German beer. Personally I don't like German beer (too dry and without floral notes to compensate for the dryness), so we might just have no common point of reference here. --Trovatore (talk) 21:14, 20 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Well, ABA tasted as if someone dropped a pot of petunias into cold instant coffee to me. But de gustibus non disputandum and so on. I've had decent beer in Germany, the UK, and Belgium, but I'm not much of a beer drinker, so my sample rate is low. --Stephan Schulz (talk) 23:26, 20 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

A for 'Irish pub' in Ulan Bator might be relevant here. Astronaut (talk) 16:26, 19 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

informations about expensys[edit]

Hereby, I would like to ask you if EXPENSYS is an institution that exists and actually works to what can be trusted or that are escroqueries.I would want need to buy a mobile phone but they require to pay before send the produit. Thank to inform me and give me a more reliable address — Preceding unsigned comment added byNdabut (talk • contribs) 18:08, 18 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

We do have an article on Expansys, which I think is what you mean, although it's not a particularly developed article yet and needs a lot of work. If you type "expansys review" into Google you may find some more useful information from people who have actually dealt with the company. -Ka renjc 18:51, 18 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Ndabut, thank you for that lovely word "escroquerie". It's already one of my favourite words. -- Jack of Oz ^[Talk] 19:36, 18 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]