Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2015 February 3

Welcome to the Wikipedia Miscellaneous Reference Desk Archives
The page you are currently viewing is an archive page. While you can leave answers for any questions shown below, please ask new questions on one of the current reference desk pages.

February 3

List of school disciplinary actions (US or otherwise) deemed excessive in the media

After reading the story of this young fellow[1] apparently attempting to misuse the powers of Mordor and Morgoth, I got to wondering whether there was a resource anywhere listing other school disciplinary actions that the media deemed excessive (I do as well. But I'm trying to keep my opinion out of my initial question). So, anything like this? Say a webpage or a recap article? Sir William Matthew Flinders Petrie | ^{Say Shalom!} 14 Shevat 5775 02:40, 3 February 2015 (UTC)

Seconded this 139.0.5.203 (talk) 06:13, 3 February 2015 (UTC)

One of the caveats when dealing with stories like this is that the media often gets it fantastically wrong. I don't know the full story behind the LotR suspension story, but it is quite possible that the media has messed it up in some way just to make a sensational story. Consider a parallel (made up, but still realistic) example: A student brings a bong he made at home using Lego blocks into school, and slips off to the bathroom to smoke some weed. The school finds him out, and suspends him, and the papers write the story as "School suspends students for bringing Legos to school". That sort of thing happens with alarming frequency. Which is not to say that school administrations are not also capable of making some really bad decisions, but it is not uncommon that sensationalized news stories are written in such a way as to generate click-thrus, and not as a dispassionate and complete report on a particular event. The reporting of a type of event in the popular media is not an accurate representation of how things are really happening. What you want is actual statistics of school discipline, which is a matter of public record, usually. For example, here is the actual data from Texas, the location of the story you cite above. I would go to dispassionately reported data like that to extract some meaning behind school discipline, and whether or not it is truly "excessive" than isolated, and probably inaccurate, reports from media outlets whose motivation is questionable. --Jayron32 14:55, 3 February 2015 (UTC)

Wasn't there a story at some point where someone mistook the Elven lettering on the One Ring for Arabic and thought it was a terrorist weapon? JIP | Talk 15:24, 3 February 2015 (UTC)

Here are The 6 Dumbest Things Schools Are Doing in the Name of Safety and The 3 Most Insane Overreactions by School Security. There are definitely many more. 5 Things Everyone Did Growing Up (That Now Get You Arrested) isn't all about school, but mostly. InedibleHulk (talk) 21:29, 3 February 2015 (UTC)

Also, The 5 Most Ridiculous Reasons Students Have Been Expelled. InedibleHulk (talk) 21:31, 3 February 2015 (UTC)

Teenage and young parenthood

Often during the week time I see an abundance of very young mums with pushchairs and kids in my town centre. To me it seems like these individuals are outside a certain section of society that I relate to.

So my question is, what is the consequence of so many young mums here in the U.K. what effect does it have on society, does young parenthood create a ghetto effect where subsequent generations also procreate young creating and are locked into a cycle of deprivation.

And correct me if I'm wroung, but it seems like women who procreate later in life after having pursued a career and or education seem to be much more capable and happier parents. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.166.53.214 (talk) 14:06, 3 February 2015 (UTC)

There's a lot written about this topic, but no simple easy answers. It is true that a woman's age at first motherhood (that's a key term) tends to increase with her education. No comment on whether that makes her a happier mother. Here's a few web links about advanced age at motherhood [2] [3].

On WP, we have articles on advanced maternal age and teenage pregnancy. There are many academic papers listed on google scholar when I search for /age at first motherhood/ - [4] There probably things written specifically to the UK, but the worldwide trend in western developed countries seem to be increasing age at motherhood, not decreasing. SemanticMantis (talk) 14:34, 3 February 2015 (UTC)

It's worth mentioning that childbirth is generally easier and safer (for both mother and child) for younger mothers. We evolved for women to give birth soon after their first menses...which is younger than it's legal to have sex in most countries. Having a baby in your late 30's is less safe - and the risks pile up rapidly and steeply over that decade. Societal norms often clash with biology...and biology seldom wins. But in a modern world where education takes up so much of our youth, having a child earlier than about 20 to 22 can certainly impact your education, resulting in worse life-outcomes.

There are other, less tangiable differences. Parents who have children as teenagers have a much smaller age difference with their children through later life than people who have kids in their 30's. The generation gap is smaller, they understand each other better. Also, the later you have children, the younger they will be when you die. Children still need the life-skills and wisdom of their parents when they are in their 20's because their brains are still developing then. If their parents are still in their prime - they will do better in the world. Raising kids is tough - and being young when you do it means that you have more energy - and that's no small matter either. On the other hand, older people are generally more financially stable - which could mean that they are better off and have the money it takes to bring up a child with every need taken care of...or it could mean that they are stuck in a crappy job or are unemployed and never likely to recover...which would be bad.

It's a complex equation - which makes it dangerous to rush to conclusions in this regard.

SteveBaker (talk) 15:05, 3 February 2015 (UTC)

Probably also worth pointing out our article menarche, and noting that age of first menses is decreasing over the past 50-100 years. The reasons aren't entirely clear, and we also don't know with much certainty at what age menarche usually occurred in our deep evolutionary past. More coverage and refs here [5].

When I was in high school it was common to become a "welfare mother." There were many newsreports at the time of "welfare queens" taking advantage of the new welfare system. Of course, teen moms wee uncommon when my mom was young and they ran off to get illegal, dangerous abortions. Raquel Baranow (talk) 15:21, 3 February 2015 (UTC)

Heres the BBC [6] pointing out that the rate of teenage motherhood isn't very high and is falling. Of course it's higher in some places than in others. And in the middle of the day, when most young people are at work or studying, the young mothers gather together in public places, and take up room with their pushchairs, so they are noticeable. When is the best time to have a baby and pursue your career? Either early or late, is the best answer. Say a girl has good A Levels but has a baby at 18, either staying with her partner or not, then when the child is five, she is still only 23, can go to university then, and be only a few years behind in her career. She might even try to go to university while the baby is still young. But if she takes a more standard career path, it might not be until she reaches 30 that she has a career that she can take maternity leave from, a steady relationship/marriage, buying a property. Is there a pattern where the children of young mothers are also likely to become pregnant young? Probably, but it isn't set in stone.Itsmejudith (talk) 20:39, 3 February 2015 (UTC)

That's true in the United States,[7] and in much of the developed world as well; unwanted teenage pregnancy reached a peak in the early 1990s and has taken a steady decline since then. --Jayron32 10:45, 4 February 2015 (UTC)

To the OP, are you certain these women are all the children's mothers? Could they not be au pairs, nannys, babysitters or some other such caregiver?   → Michael J Ⓣ Ⓒ Ⓜ 11:12, 5 February 2015 (UTC)

The opposite seems to be worrying the health professionals in the UK: see "The president of the Royal College of Obstetricians and Gynaecologists [has] warned against the pronounced trend towards older motherhood..." [8] Alansplodge (talk) 19:37, 6 February 2015 (UTC)

What does this road sign mean?

Road sign.

I came across this road sign in South Africa, what does it mean? --Myefloewer (talk) 17:39, 3 February 2015 (UTC)

It means if you turn left, there's a big tree and two kids standing underneath it. nm. A small joke. It looks like a tourism guide sign of some sort. I think it's "botanical gardens". See [9]. --Jayron32 17:53, 3 February 2015 (UTC)

It is a tree and picnic table indicating "rest area class 1". See [10] Rmhermen (talk) 18:06, 3 February 2015 (UTC)

Beware of Ents (and two Hobbits) crossing. Clarityfiend (talk) 04:21, 4 February 2015 (UTC)

Clarityfiend FTW... --Jayron32 10:42, 4 February 2015 (UTC)

I have never traveled to South Africa nor seen this particular sign, but my first impression would be to indicate "shade" or a place to get out of the hot sun. --Thomprod (talk) 13:09, 4 February 2015 (UTC)

I see one of the aliens from South Park wearing a sunhat. Still adds up to the same thing. I guess that makes it a universal language. "Welcome! You must be tired." InedibleHulk (talk) 00:53, 5 February 2015 (UTC)

This page confirms that brown coloured signs (as in the UK) show tourist information, and this page says (scroll down to near the bottom of the page) that our sign means "Rest Area Class 1". BTW "Class 2" seems to have shelter provided by a permanent canopy rather than a tree and "Class 3" has fuel and eating facilities, judging by the symbols. Alansplodge (talk) 09:26, 5 February 2015 (UTC)

D'oh! Sorry Rmhermen, I didn't see that you had beaten me to the answer. Shooting from the hip again! Alansplodge (talk) 13:14, 5 February 2015 (UTC)

• Given the South African nuclear weapons program. are we sure the sign does not mean, "This way to the mushroom cloud?" μηδείς (talk) 23:18, 6 February 2015 (UTC)

They're also known cauliflower and headed broccoli proliferators. Fresh or chilled. InedibleHulk (talk) 23:27, 6 February 2015 (UTC)

Weather

How’s the weather in LA and Canada? Was the temperature -40 degrees few/couple of days ago? -- (Russell.mo (talk) 19:55, 3 February 2015 (UTC))

All the weathers 70.30.20.185 (talk) 20:21, 3 February 2015 (UTC)

Your question seems to presume that the weather is the same throughout Canada. It's the second-largest country on Earth, and the weather will vary depending on which locality you're interested in. Your question also seems to presume that whatever the weather is like in Canada, it will be the same in Los Angeles. Since there is no one "Canadian weather", no comparison is possible unless you name a specific Canadian location. -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 21:22, 3 February 2015 (UTC)

Well, not necessarily. "LA" could also mean Louisiana. However, I doubt if the temperature in either Los Angeles or Louisiana has been -40 in recorded history. --65.94.50.4 (talk) 22:32, 3 February 2015 (UTC)

And, bizarre as it sounds, LA has 5 different weather forecasts each day (something like high desert, low desert, downtown, coast, and mountains). Temps frequently range over 10 degrees F between them. StuRat (talk) 05:48, 4 February 2015 (UTC)

Lol. I think Qubec/Montreal. My girlfriend lives in either LA or Canada, Montreal, Qubec. She goes back and forth as she works in both places. I just want to know if this occurred (-40) anywhere... -- (Russell.mo (talk) 09:03, 4 February 2015 (UTC))

Well you can certainly get -40 in Montreal. The band Malajube even wrote a song about it [11]. --Xuxl (talk) 09:27, 4 February 2015 (UTC)

• I don't think that's true either. I couldn't find an all-time low temperature for Montreal on line, but on this page (for the weather station at McGill), which is primarily about the period 1971 to 2000, it gives all-time records and the coldest was -33.9 C (which is -29.0 F) on December 29, 1933. Now if you're thinking of wind chill rather than temperature, that might be another matter. --65.94.50.4 (talk) 23:58, 4 February 2015 (UTC)

When your face freezes, the distinction doesn't mean a thing. Here's a list of extreme temperatures in Canada, if anyone's into that. InedibleHulk (talk) 01:03, 5 February 2015 (UTC) InedibleHulk (talk) 00:58, 5 February 2015 (UTC)

Women don't lie. They exaggerate. "It was 40 below" is Womanspeak for "it was really, really cold." ―Mandruss ☎ 09:32, 4 February 2015 (UTC)

Thanks guys -- (Russell.mo (talk) 09:42, 4 February 2015 (UTC))

@Russell.mo: Hey, don't remove parts of your comments after they have been replied to, since it can make it hard to understand the following comments. Use <s>...</s> instead. Thanks. ―Mandruss ☎ 09:48, 4 February 2015 (UTC)

Okay. I didn't receive the notification btw; the pinging you done. I don't know why... -- (Russell.mo (talk) 14:21, 4 February 2015 (UTC))

Resolved

Tax form instructions

I have googled quite some little bit, but unsuccesfully so far. I am looking for instructions for IRS form 9209 - Bona Fide Residence/Physical Presence Questionnaire. Can anyone point me to a link or reference that explains that form and provides instructions regarding the questions there? Thanks if you can help. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.210.177.59 (talk) 21:47, 3 February 2015 (UTC)

http://www.irs.gov/Businesses/Small-Businesses-&-Self-Employed/IRS-Hotlines-and-Toll-Free-Numbers. If this page doesn't cover the specific form you want there is a search function and a directory. μηδείς (talk) 22:37, 3 February 2015 (UTC)

The form you cite appears to no longer exist. See http://www.irs.gov/Individuals/International-Taxpayers/Foreign-Earned-Income-Exclusion---Bona-Fide-Residence-Test for its possible successor. —Nelson Ricardo (talk) 05:24, 4 February 2015 (UTC)