Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2018 October 15

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October 15

Deciphering ancient money value: 2^s vi^d

Hello. I am trying to figure out the meaning of this monetary value: 2^s vi^d. I assume it must be 2 shillings (for the first half), but I am not sure what "vi^d" means. Any ideas? Thanks in advance.--MarshalN20 ^✉🕊 05:52, 15 October 2018 (UTC)

Six pence. VI in Roman numerals and d for penny from denarius. Rmhermen (talk) 06:05, 15 October 2018 (UTC)

Also expressed as 2/6d or a half crown, which is one eighth of a Pound Sterling (or 12½ new pence). See Pre-decimal currency in Britain (before 1971). Alansplodge (talk) 10:20, 15 October 2018 (UTC)

Why the mixture of Roman and decimal numerals? Was this a common convention at one time? -- Q Chris (talk) 10:51, 15 October 2018 (UTC)

See £sd. The convention dated back to the 8th century until is was discontinued in the early 1970s. --Dweller (talk) Become old fashioned! 11:53, 15 October 2018 (UTC)

Although expressing pence values in Roman numerals is an early modern thing; I don't recall seeing it in 19th century texts and was certainly obsolete in my 1960s schooldays. I suppose it prevented the two being muddled, rather like the military convention that divisions are numbered in Arabic while corps are always numbered in Roman. I couldn't find a reference except: "Up to the seventeenth century, it was common for monetary amounts to be written out using lower case Roman numerals: ixs vjd" from University of Nottingham - Manuscripts and Special Collections - Money. Alansplodge (talk) 12:38, 15 October 2018 (UTC)

Yes, good call on the Roman numerals. I was only referring to the £sd convention. --Dweller (talk) Become old fashioned! 14:26, 15 October 2018 (UTC)

I thought the j in "ixs vjd" was your typo for i, but I see it's in the source. Roman numerals tells me:

• Since the Middle Ages, a "j" has sometimes been substituted for the final "i" of a "lower-case" Roman numeral, such as "iij" for 3 or "vij" for 7. This "j" can be considered a swash variant of "i". The use of a final "j" is still used in medical prescriptions to prevent tampering with or misinterpretation of a number after it is written".

I had never seen this use of j, and I suspect it's very little known. I'm really surprised it was just used in the source without any explanation. -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 20:07, 15 October 2018 (UTC)

If you have a longish memory User:JackofOz, you may recall Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Archives/Humanities/2014 June 1#Mysterious symbols. Apparently sometimes also in scientific formulae - see Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Archives/Science/2018 May 13. Alansplodge (talk) 22:06, 15 October 2018 (UTC)

My footprint is so widely disseminated that I cannot be expected to remember all of my superb contributions to discourse on this esteemed website. :) -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 22:21, 15 October 2018 (UTC)

May your footprint ever prosper. Alansplodge (talk) 11:58, 20 October 2018 (UTC)