Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2022 March 23
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March 23[edit]
Question about investment scams[edit]
You know how there are investment scams all around with false advertisements like "The banks hate him! Jeff Bezos told about this secret investment fund when he didn't realise the microphone was still on..." and so on, promising huge profits for everyone, complete with fake Facebook comments giving fake positive reviews of the investment fund and so on, when in reality you'll just end up losing your money.
Well, sometimes I go out and see what these fake investment fund websites are like, fill out the registration form with completely bogus information (for example giving my name as "Fuck You Scammer" and typing random letters as my e-mail address) and get to see a real-looking investment fund tracker showing exactly zero funds as of yet.
Now, my question is, what would happen on the website if I were to be so foolish as actually deposit some money? Would the website show my actual deposits so far or just some random amount? And seeing as the whole point of the scam is to just pocket the customers' money, would I just get some error message if I tried to withdraw any of the funds? JIP | Talk 01:01, 23 March 2022 (UTC)
- I don't see how anyone could answer that question, even if they had fallen for one of the scams. Different scammers use different tactics and different websites. And aren't they all intended to be "real looking"?--Shantavira|feed me 09:37, 23 March 2022 (UTC)
Jfk 5 up up and away[edit]
I had to wait at parking for about 45 minutes at terminal 5 at JFK airport. The song up up and away played on endless loop. I can't help but wonder, why? Who chose that song? What does it have to do with that spot? When did it start? Does it ever stop? Do they have to license it? By my calculation, it plays well over 500 times a day. I heard it about 15 times in a row while I was waiting. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:1017:B817:CFA6:141A:7828:CECA:22A1 (talk) 15:05, 23 March 2022 (UTC)
- It is highly unlikely that anyone can provide a source for any one of your complaints-that-end-in-a-question-mark (which, I not, are not really the same as an earnest question). I can direct you to the article on the song Up, Up and Away, which with its aerial themes, seems appropriate for use at an airport. As to why it is the only such song played in a loop at said airport, I imagine literally no one here can answer that for you. Your best option is to contact JFK airport directly. The contact information is found here. They are managed by the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey, and the page I just directed you to has additional ways to contact other units of the Port Authority, if you cannot get satisfactory answers from the JFK Airport number. --Jayron32 16:37, 23 March 2022 (UTC)
- Or (based on the insight from the IP contributor below), www.twahotel.com/contact. Card Zero (talk) 17:30, 23 March 2022 (UTC)
- It is in front of the TWA Hotel. TWA used that song in advertisements for three years in the 60s. It is intended to set the mood for patrons entering the hotel. 12.246.51.130 (talk) 17:04, 23 March 2022 (UTC)
- That answers basically all the questions apart from "how much is Jimmy Webb making out of this?" Card Zero (talk) 17:32, 23 March 2022 (UTC)
- That is probably the most unanswerable part; in the case of this kind of use, there is probably a contract for usage based not on a per-song use, but to be used in advertising over a longer period of time, like say for a fixed term of some number of years. Such contracts are private matters for the parties involved. Jimmy Webb is one of pop music's historically most successful songwriters; his works were being performed across all genres of pop music in the late 60s through the early 80s. This estimates his net worth to be $10 million, though only a small fraction of that is likely through royalties on one song. --Jayron32 12:08, 24 March 2022 (UTC)
- Also, it is likely the The 5th Dimension's version of the song, which means there are also some performer royalties being paid out to the members at the time (Marilyn McCoo, Billy Davis Jr., et. al.) --Jayron32 12:12, 24 March 2022 (UTC)
- A couple years ago, I remember it being the week before COVID lockdown, I flew in and out of JFK. I remember that song playing at the parking terminal both when I left and when I returned. I thought it was a coincidence. Apparently it wasn't. So, I just did some research and it appears that TWA unintentially purchased a cover version of the song, not the original song. So, the company, which still exists and licenses their logo and trademarks, might own that cover version. A lot of information about how they came attached to the song is here. 97.82.165.112 (talk) 16:44, 24 March 2022 (UTC)
- TWA doesn't really exist anymore. After going bankrupt, the company's assets (aircraft, buildings, and intellectual property) were purchased by American Airlines, who maintained the branding on some of their planes until about 2019. The only thing I know of still using the branding is the TWA Hotel, which was an innovative way to reuse their old terminal building at JFK, due to its architectural significance. The TWA Hotel itself is owned as a joint venture between the developer Morse Development, and the hotel chain MCR Hotels; the logo is likely licensed from American Airlines for use by the hotel. --Jayron32 17:58, 24 March 2022 (UTC)
- As an independent company, TWA does not exist. It only exists as a brand of American Airlines and has only been used for licensing their logo and trademarks. That was my intended meaning. American Airlines owns other brands, which are used with varying degrees of independence. American Eagle is, to my knowledge, the only other brand they use for flights. 97.82.165.112 (talk) 20:22, 24 March 2022 (UTC)
- TWA doesn't really exist anymore. After going bankrupt, the company's assets (aircraft, buildings, and intellectual property) were purchased by American Airlines, who maintained the branding on some of their planes until about 2019. The only thing I know of still using the branding is the TWA Hotel, which was an innovative way to reuse their old terminal building at JFK, due to its architectural significance. The TWA Hotel itself is owned as a joint venture between the developer Morse Development, and the hotel chain MCR Hotels; the logo is likely licensed from American Airlines for use by the hotel. --Jayron32 17:58, 24 March 2022 (UTC)
- A couple years ago, I remember it being the week before COVID lockdown, I flew in and out of JFK. I remember that song playing at the parking terminal both when I left and when I returned. I thought it was a coincidence. Apparently it wasn't. So, I just did some research and it appears that TWA unintentially purchased a cover version of the song, not the original song. So, the company, which still exists and licenses their logo and trademarks, might own that cover version. A lot of information about how they came attached to the song is here. 97.82.165.112 (talk) 16:44, 24 March 2022 (UTC)
- Also, it is likely the The 5th Dimension's version of the song, which means there are also some performer royalties being paid out to the members at the time (Marilyn McCoo, Billy Davis Jr., et. al.) --Jayron32 12:12, 24 March 2022 (UTC)
- That is probably the most unanswerable part; in the case of this kind of use, there is probably a contract for usage based not on a per-song use, but to be used in advertising over a longer period of time, like say for a fixed term of some number of years. Such contracts are private matters for the parties involved. Jimmy Webb is one of pop music's historically most successful songwriters; his works were being performed across all genres of pop music in the late 60s through the early 80s. This estimates his net worth to be $10 million, though only a small fraction of that is likely through royalties on one song. --Jayron32 12:08, 24 March 2022 (UTC)
- That answers basically all the questions apart from "how much is Jimmy Webb making out of this?" Card Zero (talk) 17:32, 23 March 2022 (UTC)
- The Staten Island Ferry buildings played a thankfully longer loop of vessel songs like 1960s Star Trek and Titanic when I waited for ferries (they're about half the size of the Enterprise and Titanic) Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 22:36, 24 March 2022 (UTC)
- Playing the same inane tune repeatedly was my outstanding memory of a visit to Disneyland Paris in the 1990s (never again). I suspected some forme of psychological torture, but what the actual motivation was, I can't imagine. Some bus stations and shopping centres in the UK play classical music to deter loitering teenagers, who apparently can't tolerate Bach or Vivaldi. [1] Alansplodge (talk) 11:47, 25 March 2022 (UTC)
- Was it the 12-15 minute It's a Small World ride from the 1964-65 New York World Fair? Every Disney park on Earth runs one in the warm months. A group of (pre-recorded) kids sings this inane tune the whole ride all day allegedly making it the most played song of all time:
- Playing the same inane tune repeatedly was my outstanding memory of a visit to Disneyland Paris in the 1990s (never again). I suspected some forme of psychological torture, but what the actual motivation was, I can't imagine. Some bus stations and shopping centres in the UK play classical music to deter loitering teenagers, who apparently can't tolerate Bach or Vivaldi. [1] Alansplodge (talk) 11:47, 25 March 2022 (UTC)
It's a world of laughter A world of tears It's a world of hopes And a world of fears There's so much that we share That it's time we're aware It's a small world after all It's a small world after all It's a small world after all It's a small world after all It's a small, small world There is just one moon And one golden sun And a smile means Friendship to ev'ryone Though the mountains divide And the oceans are wide It's a small world after all It's a small world after all It's a small world after all It's a small world after all It's a small, small world
- I still remember parts of it from hearing the song at age 51-54 months and no memory jog till Googling the lyrics now. I think the first lines I heard were the last 3-5 and I was thinking like what a nonsense it takes 2 days to jet around at warp speed. It's interesting that it's classical music in the UK cause the most common music for that kind of place in Manhattan for as long as I remember is probably jazz. Not the hoppin' or great-grampa music-sounding or non-mainstream kinds like swing, or ragtime or the kind where they speedsing random syllables and play too fast to dance to (bebop) but less distracting jazz. The biggest bus terminal and department store in Manhattan and the world would play jazz and maybe sometimes classical too unless I remembered wrong, though they haven't been world's largest in at least ~10 years. When I was at the Pittsburgh intercity bus station it played recent music and a very low IQ 1970-80s style classic rock song where some guy sang and the beat was 4 drum hits looped for the entire song (tutu tata), that's a short loop even for classic rock. The New York subway doesn't play music but sometimes a beggar would. Sometimes a music beggar wants to play in another's spot and they offer to pay them to not play nearer than x for y hours and whoever's willing to pay more gets the spot, maybe when they play on opposite ends of the station it's because neither wants to pay or switch stations or play on trains. Playing on trains is also very common, sometimes beggars would go back and forth between 59th and 125th Street all day cause that's the most minutes and miles between stops in the intracity system and the doors to leave the car aren't unlocked. Diverse styles i.e. accordion, Beatles guitar, Bolivian panpipe, classical violin, funky drumming on big buckets, hip hop breakdancing and trying to not kick riders' heads with illegal but poorly enforced pole stunts (I never saw a hit but they usually say don't move and stay back beforehand), Mexican mariachi band, musical saw, pop singing, and the traditional Chinese gourd with the stick sticking out and the bow trapped by the strings. When I was very young beggar music still included big band music in the intracity part of Grand Central Station and after that I never heard live big band music again, they'd (more than one band) been playing that since before Pearl Harbor (on platforms that have been in continuous use since 22 June 1915). I suspect that many people from all over the country stopped in New York before the boat to Hitler and stayed long enough to get a nostalgia for big band music at Grand Central Station and there stopped being enough nostalgic pre-baby boomers giving money to make begging with that song worth it. Specifically a 1940 song that excitedly shouts Pennsylvania 6-5000! followed by about 0.2 seconds of silence then a funky jazz beat that peters out over time due to the low swing skill of the songwriter so they kept having to go back to the best part. It was named for PEnnsylvania 6-5000 (the mnemonic of the phone number PE6-5000 (later 736-5000 (later later 1-212-736-5000))), of the Hotel Pennsylvania (closed forever April Fools Day 2020) which was named for and above Pennsylvania Station (the other intercity train station, named for the fact that most long trips from it stop in Pennsylvania (named for Penn's Sylvania (woods), named after William Penn, its 1st British colonist)). Are there other differences with the UK and London? Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 18:48, 25 March 2022 (UTC)
- As I recall, the "Small World" ride at the World's Fair was literally transported to Disneyland after the fair ended. As to it being "inane" - I suppose some would find the idea of cooperation instead of combat to be "inane". --←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 21:59, 25 March 2022 (UTC)
- I never experienced the ride but the song gets annoying in a loop quicker than the average song and I don't usually like saccharine and/or kids and/or major key songs. I hated the Hokey Pokey even as a little kid. If I happen to not like a major key song it's always better in minor. i.e. Don't Worry Be Happy from the car rental ads, just Autotuning each occurrence of D#, G# and A# in the recording down a half note makes it sound a bit like a horror soundtrack but it's worth it. If someone hates 21st century top 40 it may contribute that there's a lot more minor key than there used to be, even the happy songs. I still like Girls Just Wanna Have Fun in major for some reason though, and haven't outgrown saccharine electronic songs. As for It's A Small World's meaning, no matter how desirable world peace is these kinds of songs are naïve. I hope it can come true in less than a thousand years and I'm not sure if I should bet the over. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 00:59, 26 March 2022 (UTC)
- I always found the song charming, though I wouldn't want to hear it a thousand times a day. --←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 17:36, 27 March 2022 (UTC)
- For your curiosity (or therapy): Hokey Cokey in a minor key. Click "piano" rather than youtube, click the key to choose D minor rather major, press play. Card Zero (talk) 19:21, 26 March 2022 (UTC)
- You know what sucks, We All Live In A Yellow Submarine the original, how'd this nursery rhyme become a hit for adults? Let It Be (major) is good though. Some of their others are somewhere in between. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 23:32, 26 March 2022 (UTC)
- I never experienced the ride but the song gets annoying in a loop quicker than the average song and I don't usually like saccharine and/or kids and/or major key songs. I hated the Hokey Pokey even as a little kid. If I happen to not like a major key song it's always better in minor. i.e. Don't Worry Be Happy from the car rental ads, just Autotuning each occurrence of D#, G# and A# in the recording down a half note makes it sound a bit like a horror soundtrack but it's worth it. If someone hates 21st century top 40 it may contribute that there's a lot more minor key than there used to be, even the happy songs. I still like Girls Just Wanna Have Fun in major for some reason though, and haven't outgrown saccharine electronic songs. As for It's A Small World's meaning, no matter how desirable world peace is these kinds of songs are naïve. I hope it can come true in less than a thousand years and I'm not sure if I should bet the over. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 00:59, 26 March 2022 (UTC)
- I find it very interesting that "tutu tata" is all that is necessary to identify Don't Bring Me Down by ELO. Odd bit of trivia, that drum loop is actually a sample from another song on that album (On the Run) played back a little bit slower. But, calling Jeff Lynne "some guy" with a "low IQ" is a bit harsh. 97.82.165.112 (talk) 23:30, 26 March 2022 (UTC)
- I have very little classic rock knowledge but is that really the only one that drums tutu tata? Sometimes there's other simple patterns of tu and ta right? At least rock drummers sometimes do something better every few seconds to break it up. Or drum better the whole song. Or drum the simplest possible metronome rhythm but fast as a machine gun, that can make the right song better. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 23:54, 26 March 2022 (UTC)
- Well if that's more to your taste... actually the piano version (minus double-bass-pedal drumming) makes it sound more like the accompaniment to a silent melodrama like The Perils of Pauline. Phrygian mode, though, who'da thought it. Card Zero (talk) 01:29, 27 March 2022 (UTC)
- Imagine if a song like Coldplay Clocks had loud tutu tata throughout, that would make a great song worse. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 01:46, 27 March 2022 (UTC)
- On the other hand, imagine if there had been a gabber remix. The situation could have been vastly improved. Card Zero (talk) 01:54, 27 March 2022 (UTC)
- There's a remix somewhat like that for I'm Blue by Eiffel 65, it's one of those build anticipation for a long time songs. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 02:44, 27 March 2022 (UTC)
- On the other hand, imagine if there had been a gabber remix. The situation could have been vastly improved. Card Zero (talk) 01:54, 27 March 2022 (UTC)
- Imagine if a song like Coldplay Clocks had loud tutu tata throughout, that would make a great song worse. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 01:46, 27 March 2022 (UTC)
- I don't have an issue with people not knowing classic rock. I know some people get offended if you don't know their favorite kind of music or favorite movie or favorite comic book hero. I never intended to form a nearly encyclopedic knowledge of music. Also, this is going way off the topic. But, based on the description, Don't Bring Me Down is by far the most likely suspect. The tu-tu-ta-ta drums are not only all through the song. They are very prominent. If it wasn't for the added claps periodically, the song would almost be just a repeating drum loop with a little bit of guitar and synthesizer to emphasize the lyrics. It is purposely a loud and simple song. It is almost a punk rock song because it is so deconstructed. While it was one of Jeff Lynne's biggest hits, it isn't really his style. He normally produces more progressive rock like Mr. Blue Sky, which is commonly called the happiest song ever written. (Long after submitting that, I realized that Mr. Blue Sky features an over-emphasized repeating piano beat through the entire song, similar to the repeating drum loop in Don't Bring Me Down.) 97.82.165.112 (talk) 17:33, 27 March 2022 (UTC)
- Eh those ELO songs weren't so bad, and you correctly predicted that I'd find Mr. Blue Sky better. So it wasn't Don't Bring Me Down, that was much different. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 20:42, 27 March 2022 (UTC)
- Well if that's more to your taste... actually the piano version (minus double-bass-pedal drumming) makes it sound more like the accompaniment to a silent melodrama like The Perils of Pauline. Phrygian mode, though, who'da thought it. Card Zero (talk) 01:29, 27 March 2022 (UTC)
- I have very little classic rock knowledge but is that really the only one that drums tutu tata? Sometimes there's other simple patterns of tu and ta right? At least rock drummers sometimes do something better every few seconds to break it up. Or drum better the whole song. Or drum the simplest possible metronome rhythm but fast as a machine gun, that can make the right song better. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 23:54, 26 March 2022 (UTC)
- As I recall, the "Small World" ride at the World's Fair was literally transported to Disneyland after the fair ended. As to it being "inane" - I suppose some would find the idea of cooperation instead of combat to be "inane". --←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 21:59, 25 March 2022 (UTC)
- I still remember parts of it from hearing the song at age 51-54 months and no memory jog till Googling the lyrics now. I think the first lines I heard were the last 3-5 and I was thinking like what a nonsense it takes 2 days to jet around at warp speed. It's interesting that it's classical music in the UK cause the most common music for that kind of place in Manhattan for as long as I remember is probably jazz. Not the hoppin' or great-grampa music-sounding or non-mainstream kinds like swing, or ragtime or the kind where they speedsing random syllables and play too fast to dance to (bebop) but less distracting jazz. The biggest bus terminal and department store in Manhattan and the world would play jazz and maybe sometimes classical too unless I remembered wrong, though they haven't been world's largest in at least ~10 years. When I was at the Pittsburgh intercity bus station it played recent music and a very low IQ 1970-80s style classic rock song where some guy sang and the beat was 4 drum hits looped for the entire song (tutu tata), that's a short loop even for classic rock. The New York subway doesn't play music but sometimes a beggar would. Sometimes a music beggar wants to play in another's spot and they offer to pay them to not play nearer than x for y hours and whoever's willing to pay more gets the spot, maybe when they play on opposite ends of the station it's because neither wants to pay or switch stations or play on trains. Playing on trains is also very common, sometimes beggars would go back and forth between 59th and 125th Street all day cause that's the most minutes and miles between stops in the intracity system and the doors to leave the car aren't unlocked. Diverse styles i.e. accordion, Beatles guitar, Bolivian panpipe, classical violin, funky drumming on big buckets, hip hop breakdancing and trying to not kick riders' heads with illegal but poorly enforced pole stunts (I never saw a hit but they usually say don't move and stay back beforehand), Mexican mariachi band, musical saw, pop singing, and the traditional Chinese gourd with the stick sticking out and the bow trapped by the strings. When I was very young beggar music still included big band music in the intracity part of Grand Central Station and after that I never heard live big band music again, they'd (more than one band) been playing that since before Pearl Harbor (on platforms that have been in continuous use since 22 June 1915). I suspect that many people from all over the country stopped in New York before the boat to Hitler and stayed long enough to get a nostalgia for big band music at Grand Central Station and there stopped being enough nostalgic pre-baby boomers giving money to make begging with that song worth it. Specifically a 1940 song that excitedly shouts Pennsylvania 6-5000! followed by about 0.2 seconds of silence then a funky jazz beat that peters out over time due to the low swing skill of the songwriter so they kept having to go back to the best part. It was named for PEnnsylvania 6-5000 (the mnemonic of the phone number PE6-5000 (later 736-5000 (later later 1-212-736-5000))), of the Hotel Pennsylvania (closed forever April Fools Day 2020) which was named for and above Pennsylvania Station (the other intercity train station, named for the fact that most long trips from it stop in Pennsylvania (named for Penn's Sylvania (woods), named after William Penn, its 1st British colonist)). Are there other differences with the UK and London? Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 18:48, 25 March 2022 (UTC)