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October 19[edit]

New railway construction[edit]

When building new railway lines on flat land in areas with no civil engineering structures required, is the excavation and basic pavement laid down by the civils contractor or by the track contractor? Clover345 (talk) 08:54, 19 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

That sounds like a matter for the railway company to decide when drawing up the contracts. --76.69.116.4 (talk) 10:03, 19 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

It is different in many countries. In the US Amtrak is a private corporation handling most passenger lines. In China China Railway is a state-owned sole proprietorship enterprise. --Kharon (talk) 18:49, 21 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Amtrak isn't really a "private corporation" in the usual sense. And the context of this question is the trackage, not the trains themselves...Amtrak owns barely any of the track. DMacks (talk) 03:51, 22 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Length of spaghetti[edit]

Is all the spaghetti commercially produced 25.5 cm long? Why is this? The Wikipedia article on spaghetti says this: "Originally, spaghetti was notably long, but shorter lengths gained in popularity during the latter half of the 20th century and now it is most commonly available in 25–30 cm (10–12 in) lengths." But there is no sauce. 86.187.170.245 (talk) 17:16, 19 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Sauce is separate. It usually comes in jars. As to the size of grocery store spaghetti, that could be a function of convenience in fitting into an average cooking pan. (Plus, it fits the box.) ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 18:56, 19 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Fairly sure the OP meant "there is no source", whether the pun was intended or not I don't know. Nil Einne (talk) 21:47, 19 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Oddly, spaghetti is often too long to fit into most cooking pots, requiring it to be broken in half, inevitably with a piece or two flying across the room and under the fridge, as a result. Is this an attempt by the companies to keep the mice in the house well-fed ? SinisterLefty (talk) 01:37, 23 October 2019 (UTC) [reply]

I don't know where 25.5 cm came from, did you try measuring your own spaghetti? Anyway at least in around 2005, "Barilla no. 1 dry spaghetti pasta of length L=24.1cm" according to [1]. BTW, Garofalo makes long spaghetti [2]. This may he a somewhat specialty product, but from the price e.g. [3] I'm fairly sure it's commercially produced by any reasonable definition of the term. That one quotes the length as 20.5 inches. It also basically says the same thing as our article as doe a bunch of other sellers of this spaghetti, but I'm hoping they copied use since it's been in our article since 2010 [4]. Nil Einne (talk) 22:06, 19 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I don't know why spaghetti is the length it is, but "everyone's standard spaghetti is the same length" (or simple multiple/fraction thereof" as a form of standardization lets one measure the amount of dried pasta one is using by the size of the bundle. DMacks (talk) 22:16, 19 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Such as with this very common tool (image to right): 70.67.193.176 (talk) 20:37, 20 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I see that it:Spaghetti tell us: "The longest spaghetti in the world has a length of 455 m and was made by Ranieri Borgnolo, on 10 September 2005 in Ober-Ramstadt (Germany). The record was recognized by the Guinness World Records and appeared in the 2008 edition." Martinevans123 (talk) 09:43, 20 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: 25.5 cm is suspiciously close to 10 inches. ⌘ _hugarheimur 12:20, 20 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Both spaghetti and inches were around long before centimeters were. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 17:38, 20 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Our Italian units of measurement article says that a former unit of length in Naples (the home of spaghetti) was "1 palmo = 12 once = 10.381 in" (about 26.4 cm). I doubt that Imperial or US inches were ever used in Italy. Alansplodge (talk) 20:05, 20 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The strange individuals at the Nottingham Science Blog bought a packet of cheap spaghetti and found that: "The lengths varied from 245 mm to 263 mm, with the mean being 256 mm". The object of this scientific endeavour was to establish the total length of a 500 g pack, the result was 148.6 metres. The editors added that "Alternatively, it could be used to cover a floor area of 51cm x 51cm (0.26m2)". Alansplodge (talk) 20:20, 20 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

To cover larger floors, you'd probably need to go here. Martinevans123 (talk) 20:24, 20 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Depending on the width of the floorboards as compared to the length of the spaghetti, you can calculate the value of pi. DMacks (talk) 00:11, 21 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

If we're going to get geometrical, how does Buffon cope with the square stuff? Martinevans123 (talk) 08:23, 21 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Well holy crap, we even have a Buffon's noodle article. All these seem to assume an infinitely thin noodle though, which I think is the reciprocal of a spherical cow. DMacks (talk) 12:39, 21 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for all of those. It certainly helps to bolster one's faith in Wikipedia. Martinevans123 (talk) 14:41, 21 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Both spaghetti and inches were around long before centimeters were Outright wrong due to anachronism in the context of "a spaghetti is a nice round number of inches", and at the very least misleading. Yes, "inch" dates back a millenium or so, but referred to very different units depending on time and location, whereas the metric system units have not changed since the end of 18th century (technically the definitions have changed for metrology reasons but every change in definition took care to hold constant the value within experimental precision at the time). Even if you keep to the British inch, per Inch#History, the definition was "three dry barley grains" or "some multiple of the average Scots height" up to 1824/1825 (when it was replaced by a multiple of the yard, the latter of which being defined as a fraction of a metric unit). Tigraan^{Click here to contact me} 13:29, 22 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Not quite right, the yard wasn't defined as a fraction of a metre until the The Weights and Measures (Metric) Act of 1897. Before that, the definition was that it was equal to one of a number of standard brass rods that were kept at Parliament, the Royal Observatory and the Royal Mint. However, these were found to shrink by a tiny amount over many years, hence the later redefinition against the metre. See our Yard#History article. You can still see some of the redundant Imperial standard measures displayed at the Jewel Tower in Westminster. Alansplodge (talk) 16:36, 24 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, those Victorians "sure put the smack down" on yards. But I'm not sure they would have known quite what to do with spaghetti. Or even Fanny, for that matter: ""Spaghetti is not a widely eaten food in the UK and is considered by many as an exotic delicacy," notes a BBC article from 1957." Martinevans123 (talk) 20:56, 24 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Although the Victorians were fond of macaroni. Alansplodge (talk) 22:27, 24 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, I see that Mrs Beeton's Book of Household Management (1861) does indeed advocate "macaroni broken in small pieces". So, it seems, Size Isn't Everything. Martinevans123 (talk) 22:46, 24 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

There are sometimes standards that specify the dimensions and other characteristics of food products. This USDA document[5] classifies spaghetti as a "Type VI" pasta with a length of 8 1/2 to 11 inches and a diameter of 0.060 to 0.110 inches. (ziti is 1 1/4 to 2 inches long) The ~10 inch length cited above falls near the midpoint of that range. For optimum cooking time see ISO standard 7304-1 (preview only of first few pages, so I'm not sure if it defines al dente.) Bon appétit! --mikeu ^talk 22:34, 20 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Maybe they're just harvesting it earlier these days.--Shantavira|^{feed me} 08:13, 22 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]