Wikipedia:WikiProject Highways/Assessment/A-Class Review/U.S. Route 23 in Michigan

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U.S. Route 23 in Michigan[edit]

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U.S. Route 23 in Michigan (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs) review

Suggestion: Promote to A-Class
Nominator's comments: This is the longest US Highway in Michigan, so following in the footsteps of M-28, it deserves attention and a place at the top levels of the assessment scale. Before I'd take this to FAC, I plan on updating the map and adding the KML/shapefile data to this article, however that is of minor importance at this time.
Nominated by: Imzadi 1979 → 11:24, 19 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
First comment occurred: 02:13, 20 February 2012 (UTC)

Comments by Dough4872[edit]

Resolved issues from Dough4872 04:57, 20 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comments - I have some concerns with this article before I can support it for A-class:
  1. Can some details about the physical surroundings be added to the lead?
  2. Maybe mention the two designations it replaced in the lead.
  3. I don't see how a picture of a water tower without showing the highway is relevant to the article.
  4. "East of Brighton, the freeway intersects I-96 and continues north to an intersection with M-59 south of Hartland. The freeway turns northeasterly by Runyon Lake and runs toward the city of Fenton.", change one of the instances of "the freeway".
  5. Can the physical surroundings in the Flint area be discussed? I'm assuming its not as rural as the previous segment.
  6. Can the traffic counts be moved to the overall description of the route at the beginning of the route description? It is kind of random to have them in the middle of the route description.
  7. Reference needed for "These traffic counts are expressed in terms of annual average daily traffic (AADT), which is a statistical calculation of the average daily number of vehicles on a segment of roadway."
  8. I'd still prefer if the proper name of the outlet mall would be mentioned, but I won't oppose if its not added.
  9. You use "turns" a lot in the route description. Can some other verbs be used in place of some of these instances?
  10. Can the physical surroundings at the beginning of the stretch of the route along Lake Huron be mentioned?
  11. The sentence "The southern part of what is now US 23 in the state wasn't left out of the auto trail craze." sounds awkward. I would also reword the contraction.
  12. I've noticed that business routes of US 23 are inconsistently abbreviated "BUS US 23", "U.S. Route 23 Business", and "Business US 23". Is it possible to be consistent throughout the article? Dough4872 02:13, 20 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Note to others, I will be out of town through the middle of the coming week; I'm not ignoring this, but I will be occupied. I would encourage others to continue to make comments and provide discussion on current comments so I can work at all of them when I return. Imzadi 1979 → 04:03, 26 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Replies
  1. Done, one sentence added.
  2. I don't see the point. After adding the summaries of the sections not mentioned in the lead, the lead is long enough. We already have plenty of historical information in the lead. Something has to be left to the body of the article to entice people to read the article.
  3. Find a replacement that's of decent quality, but that is a landmark for the area.
  4. Done.
  5. Done.
  6. They're where they are to provide geographic context. See M-28 (Michigan highway), M-35 (Michigan highway), U.S. Route 41 in Michigan, et al.
  7. That's a non-controversial definition of a term. It doesn't need citation. Read the policy, not everything needs a footnote.
  8. The mall doesn't have an article. (Yeah, I know that Cheboygan Bascule Bridge is a redlink, but Andrew Jameson (talk · contribs) is currently making articles for all of the bridges on the NRHP so it won't be a redlink for long.)
  9. Done.
  10. Done.
  11. Done.
  12. Ok, I missed that, but someone had just used the pipe trick on the one link, which did that. Fixed.
Imzadi 1979 → 04:33, 20 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Support - I will now support the article. Dough4872 04:57, 20 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Resolved issues from –Fredddie™ 03:38, 8 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Infobox
  1. Do you think the tourist routes would look better with a line break?
Lead
  1. a major 362.33-mile should be "a major, 362.33-mile-long (583.11 km),". Even if you don't agree with the -long, the commas should still be there.
  2. I don't think any of the sentences in the lead's first paragraph should not be there, I don't think they flow together very well as they are now.
  3. Big jump from Indian trails to becoming a USH.
  4. The Zilwaukee Bridge sentence feels like it was tacked on as an afterthought.
RD
  1. Have we linked to concurrency (road) yet?
  2. Wouldn't US 223 turn onto St. Anthony Road?
  3. How does this sound instead? "About 5 miles (8.0 km) north of the state line, US 223 leaves the freeway and turns west onto St. Anthony Road."
  4. You may want to clarify that US 23 stays on the freeway. I almost missed it myself.
  5. The sentences describing Ann Arbor are hard to follow along.
    1. "Between the latter interchange and the one for Washtenaw Avenue" could be simplified to "Between I-94 and Washtenaw Avenue"
    2. The business loops also run west along a run-on sentence.
    3. Does M-17 run east on Washtenaw Avenue?
    4. You say Washtenaw a lot, which isn't your fault. It may benefit our readers by piping the WCC link to say "a community college"
  6. "US 23 crosses into Livingston County in Whitmore Lake near the water body of the same name." You could say "In Whitmore Lake, US 23 crosses into Livingston County near the city's eponymous body of water."
  7. I know why it's there, but "US 23 runs through fields as it approaches the Flint area." sounds silly.
  8. A courtesy link for I-75 may be needed in the first paragraph of the Flint section.
  9. "The freeway has an interchange with I-69..." you may want to use a different word than freeway there. I had to reread it to make sure it was the combined I-75/US 23 freeway.
  10. The sentence mentioning the Flint River could be flipped, using crosses as the main verb.
  11. I know trunkline is the official term for any state highway in Michigan, but to me, I picture a two-lane highway. Seeing it to describe a freeway section throws me off.
  12. Should it be "bypasses Saginaw to the east"?
  13. "North of downtown" what city?
  14. The exit numbers seem odd here. Were the road's interchanges previously unnumbered up to this point?
  15. I still don't like the word terminus. Are US 10 and M-25 on the same road, but heading in opposite directions, at this interchange? It's not entirely clear.
  16. The M-13 connector sentence is wonky; the two halves do not flow together.
  17. "from 20,763 vehicles per day to 4,466 vehicles" could probably be reworeded as "from 20,763 vehicles to 4,466 vehicles per day". Someone else may know better, but the first vehicles could be removed altogether: "from 20,763 to 4,466 vehicles per day".
  18. Courtesy link for Standish?
  19. "Huron Road turns northeasterly..." sounds like US 23 turns off of Huron Road.
  20. What kind of direction is "around Saginaw Bay"? Likewise for Tawas Bay.
  21. How does this sound: "State Street continues westerly as C-66 as US 23 turns north on Main Street..."?
  22. Ironic that Mackinaw City is a village, isn't it?
History
  1. I don't like the paragraph about the Indian trails, but I can't exactly pin down why. I think it's because it's only three sentences. But I really don't know if there's that much more you can say about it.
  2. It seems like the East Michigan Pike versus Dixie Highway information is repeated unnecessarily.
  3. I think a map of the old routings would benefit the section. I don't think it needs to be MTF quality, but at least it would give the reader some context. This would be in addition to any KML features you're planning on adding.
  4. "...US 23 ran concurrently with US 10." Have you linked to concurrency (road) yet? I don't recall seeing any likely words linked.
  5. "The M-171 designation was applied to the former routing by way of Mikado and Lincoln." Was M-171 extended or was this a whole new M-171?
  6. This may not be doable, but a picture of the Zilwaukee drawbridge would be neat.
  7. What kind of accident delayed opening the new Zilwaukee Bridge? I'm not looking for a paragraph, just something more specific than "a major construction accident".
Future
  1. "from Standish northerly, with proposed termini in either Tawas City, Oscoda or Alpena." is all wrong. Here's how:
    1. Earlier in the sentence, you said plans were studied, so proposed is redundant.
    2. Termini is plural and you've already defined the southern end.
    3. Using either/or implies two options, you give three cities.
    • Replace it with "from Standish northerly to Tawas City, Oscoda, or Alpena."
  2. I'm left wanting more from this section. Did any plans gain any traction? Obviously none of them were built, but it wouldn't hurt to state the obvious here.
Memorial designations
  1. The way the sentence which mentions the Roberts–Linton Highway reads like you've talked about it already. You haven't.
  2. Do Sunrise Coast or Sunrise Side have articles? A picture of a sunrise taken in this area would be splendid.
Bridges and Exit list
  • Look fine

As I was typing out where pictures would be nice, I remember that you said something to the effect of "if there were more (or better) pictures available, they'd be in here)" so clearly I'm not going to hold out because of pictures. They are merely suggestions of what I think would be beneficial. Overall, good job here. –Fredddie™ 02:44, 9 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Ping to see if the comments will be addressed soon. --Rschen7754 20:12, 19 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Ok, I've implemented the suggestions above. If I haven't, please note. Imzadi 1979 → 03:26, 20 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I will review these tomorrow, but I was wondering if there were another current picture of the Zilwaukee Bridge. The aspect ratio on the current picture is wonky, so it looks smaller than the others in the default size. –Fredddie™ 05:05, 20 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
What is the status on this review? --Rschen7754 20:04, 6 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Done. 03:38, 8 April 2012 (UTC)
  • Comment: I have fixed a few minor problems I have found in the article, but I haven't been able to fix the bug with the exit list. After this is fixed, I will support this article 100%. - Awardgive, the editor with the msitaken name. 13:26, 19 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
    • What sort of bug? Can you be more specific? --Rschen7754 20:23, 19 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Never mind, it has been fixed. I now Support this article. - Awardgive, the editor with the msitaken name. 01:30, 20 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Resolved issues from Rschen7754 04:10, 29 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Lead
  • Last sentence of paragraph 2 and first sentence of paragraph 3 start with the same word.
Route description
  • North of town, the freeway passes near a cement plant. - not really seeing the significance of this.
    • If you gave the name, or provided some sort of claim to significance, it might be okay... but the way it's written, it seems like an insignificant detail.
  • The landscape takes on a more suburban residential character as the freeway approaches the Ann Arbor area. - wouldn't suburban imply more residential?
  • "the local community college" - why not give the name?
    • Yes, but the name of the college isn't obvious.
      • Still disagree, but won't let it hold up the ACR.
  • a series of "construction mishaps, cost overruns, and government foibles." - such as?
  • M-13 connector -> M-13 Connector
  • The connector runs due northward and I-75/US 23 turns northwesterly to bypass around Kawkawlin. - need a comma, otherwise dangerously close to a run-on
  • At Hale Road, US 23 meets the southern end of M-65 before it continues east to Au Gres. There it runs along the Saginaw Bay and crosses the Au Gres River. - sentences can be combined
  • Through this area, US 23 runs parallel to the Lake State Railway and crosses into the Huron National Forest. - does source 11 have the name of the railway?
    • I'd just add the citation for 7, just to be safe.
History
Future - no issues
Designations
  • Most of US 23, along with US 2 in the Upper Peninsula, was designated the United Spanish War Veterans Memorial Highway - was? It's not now? Also, lost a period.
  • This two tour was created in May 1986 as part of the overall Great Lakes Circle Tour through a joint effort between MDOT and its counterparts in Wisconsin, Minnesota and Ontario. - ?
Bridges
  • It was built as "two-leaf bridge in a place where a single-leaf bridge probably would have sufficed." ... built as a?
    • Fixed myself.
  • The initial construction of the structure was delayed when the contractor died, but completed in December 1940. - how long was the delay for? Also, completed -> was completed?
Major intersections - no issues
See also
  • Special routes are quite important to the route. Why not do a small section in summary style?
    • As far as I'm aware, we do this for Interstates with associated 3dis...
More to come... --Rschen7754 07:26, 24 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I'll do my replies down here trying to keep them lining up with your comments above while we work.

Lead
  • Done.
RD
  • Well, I get lambasted for not including enough local landmarks...
  • I suppose that depends on how you look at it, but highways in some suburbs are also the commercial zones with the residential subdivisions kept away from them too.
  • Washtenaw Community College... Washtenaw Avenue... Washtenaw County... we were getting into Washtenaw overload in that part of the article, which is why we glossed the link that way.
  • Well, the paper MDOT map (fn3) shows rail lines, but not the names of them. It also doesn't give the national forest boundaries, which is why I have to use Rand McNally (fn11) for that. Google (fn6) doesn't give either very well or at all. The only source I have for the rail line names/owners is the MDOT online railroad map (fn7).
Special routes

Done or commented for now... Imzadi 1979 → 09:21, 24 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Review has been completed. --Rschen7754 22:03, 24 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Everything is fixed save the community college. I think that we'd be in Washtenaw overload if I unglossed the name. Imzadi 1979 → 03:38, 29 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Updated. --Rschen7754 03:52, 29 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Support with disclaimer regarding the two points left unaddressed. I do have concerns about them, but not sufficient enough to hold up the article. --Rschen7754 04:10, 29 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page, such as the current discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
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