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Article promoted by Zawed (talk) via MilHistBot (talk) 01:21, 9 December 2018 (UTC) « Return to A-Class review list[reply]

Apollo 11[edit]

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Nominator(s): Hawkeye7 (talk)

Apollo 11 (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

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Apollo 11 was the first manned landing on the Moon. We're trying to get the article up to Featured in time for the 50th anniversary, which is in July next year. Article has been overhauled, and is already rated Good, so bringing it here for review. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 21:35, 27 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Minor comment The statement that "In 2015, the quarantine trailer, the flotation collar, and the righting spheres were moved" isn't supported by the source. From checking my photos, the Apollo 11 flotation collar and quarantine trailer were at the Steven F. Udvar-Hazy Center when I visited it in 2009. Nick-D (talk) 06:34, 30 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Corrected. Consider uploading some of the photos. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 08:34, 30 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I've just uploaded a couple of photos of the quarantine trailer - [1], [2], though the quality isn't great. Nick-D (talk) 22:47, 30 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Support Comments by JennyOz

  • Placeholder for now. I'm about 80% through notes on prose. Hopefully will finish in next day or two. JennyOz (talk) 15:41, 7 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Hawkeye, following are some comments, primarily on prose and very much from a lay person's reading. I also took notes on some refs and inconsistencies. Will add them separately soon.

lede
  • launched by a Saturn V rocket from Kennedy Space Center - wasn't called Kennedy then (others at Anders below)
    ☒N Yes it was. The facility was given its current name by President Lyndon B. Johnson under Executive Order 11129 on November 29, 1963. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 04:42, 10 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Background
  • Eisenhower's successor, John F. Kennedy. [13] - space before ref
     Done Hawkeye7 (discuss) 05:30, 10 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Since the Soviet Union had better booster rockets, he required a challenge that was beyond the capacity of the existing generation of rocketry, and therefore would mean the US and Soviet Union would be starting from a position of equality - Difficult to parse.
    Question? Tweaked it. How about now? Hawkeye7 (discuss) 05:30, 10 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Something spectacular, even if it could not be justified on military, economic or scientific grounds. - not a sentence?
    I think it works. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 05:30, 10 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Kennedy's speech via here does not have cap on earth ie "safely to the earth". If we are going to capitalise Earth, (which mos typo allows) we should also Moon.
    checkY Hawkeye7 (discuss) 05:30, 10 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • required for Apollo were developed by Project Gemini - swap 'were' to 'had been' (so it doesn't sound concurrent)
    I think it works this way. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 05:30, 10 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Apollo 7 tested the command module in Earth obit - orbit
    checkY ribbet Hawkeye7 (discuss) 05:30, 10 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Apollo 9 tested the lunar module in Earth obit - orbit
    checkY ribbet Hawkeye7 (discuss) 05:30, 10 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • they launched Luna 15, - replace 'they' with the Soviets?
    checkY Okay
  • Jodrell Bank Observatory was called Nuffield Radio Astronomy Laboratories during that time (see note Anders below)
     Done Hawkeye7 (discuss) 05:30, 10 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • and this was published in July 2009 - do we know where/how published, if not, is 'released' better word?
    checkY Changed to "released" Hawkeye7 (discuss)
  • July 2009 on the 40th anniversary of Apollo 11 - The Independent ref is dated 3 July so 'on' is incorrect, 'the month of'?
    checkY Changed to for the 40th Anniversary. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 05:30, 10 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Crew
  • table has Armstrong, Collins, Aldrin but opening line "The crew assignment of Neil Armstrong as Commander, Jim Lovell as Command Module Pilot (CMP) and Buzz Aldrin .." It 'looks like' an error - suggest adding 'initial' or 'original' between 'the' and 'crew'
    checkY Re-organised this paragraph. What I find fascinating is that five people had to die before Neil and Buzz got this mission. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 05:30, 10 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Backup crew
  • Anders... In early 1969, he accepted a job with the National Space Council effective August 1969 - was named National Aeronautics and Space Council (1958–1973), use pipe? (Anders' article uses proper name of the period. Others this page use the 'then' name eg Manned Spacecraft Center ie not Johnson Space Center, Sabine D crater not Collins.)
     Done Hawkeye7 (discuss) 05:30, 10 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • would retire as an astronaut on that date - no specific date is given so change to 'at that time'?
     Done Hawkeye7 (discuss) 05:30, 10 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • At that point Ken Mattingly... at which point Anders would be unavailable - swap second 'point' to 'time'
    checkY Re-worded. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 05:30, 10 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Lovell, Haise, and Mattingly would ultimately be assigned as the prime crew of Apollo 13 - not really 'ultimately' because Mattingly was grounded and replaced by Jack Swigert
    checkY Good point. Changed to "later assigned". Hawkeye7 (discuss) 05:30, 10 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Support crew
  • During Projects Mercury and Gemini, each mission had a prime and a backup crew. For Apollo, a third crew - was 'prime' an official term? If so, add Prime to Crew table
    checkY Yes, it was oficial. Added. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 06:02, 10 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • The Capsule communicator (CAPCOM) was an astronaut - clarify on ground at mission control center
    checkY Added. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 06:02, 10 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Bruce McCandless II,Jim Lovell, Bill Anders - space before Jim. Also, Anders not called Bill previous mentions.
    Fixed the space, not the Bill issue. Kees08 (Talk)
    checkY Very well. Changed to "William" Hawkeye7 (discuss) 06:02, 10 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Flight directors
  • Director/s or director/s
    • Only capital if used as a title (e.g. Flight Director Kranz) Kees08 (Talk)
  • Extravehicular activity (EVA) - is cap E correct?
Call signs
  • director George M. Low - pipe?
    No need. Hawkeye7 (discuss)
  • Julian Scheer wrote to Manned Spacecraft Center director George M. Low to suggest the Apollo 11 crew be less flippant - ref?
    • @Kees08: Need you for this one. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 06:02, 10 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
      I like to write all my notes down when I find a more complicated answer, so the information is not lost. Page 392 and 393 of Hansen discusses the choice of Eagle and Columbia as them names, but has no information on Julian Scheer (related to this, at least). Since the book says Michael Collins was the main driver, I found in Carrying the Fire, pages 332-335. It discusses how Julian Scheer suggested Columbia, and how Collins thought it sounded more pompous than the previous Gumdrop and Charlie Brown names, but says nothing about a memo from Scheer. Page 635 of Chaikin summarizes what is in Collins' book. The current citation does not appear to even mention the names. I should have started with online searches, because Chariots for Apollo has the text. I will let you incorporate it, unless you want me to. I would suggest incorporating more background information from Collins' book into the section, there happens to be a lot of detail about naming the spacecraft. We could even include when it was announced to the public. Sorry for the long paragraph, figured it is useful to know where the information is in each book. Kees08 (Talk) 22:24, 13 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
      I've created a new article on Julian Scheer. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 12:27, 19 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • During early mission planning, the names Snowcone and Haystack were used - explain Snowcone for the Command Module and Haystack for the Lunar Module (per the pdf)
  • put in the news release. - is that Technical information Summary pdf 'the' news release? Otherwise replace with 'in the Technical information Summary '.
    No, wrong document. It wants the Press Kit. I have a copy and will replace the reference. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 06:02, 10 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
    checkY Ah. It's in the technical summary as well, on p. 8
  • a personification of the United States - does Collins' book specifically say the 'personification' otherwise just 'historical name'
    checkY No, he doesn't so sure. Hawkeye7 (discuss)
  • Eagle for the national bird of the United States, the bald eagle - per bald eagle article, is both the national bird and national animal of the United States of America
  • We all know it's a bird. I've seen them in the wild in the US and Canada, but they're not as big as our wedgetails. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 01:44, 12 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Insignia
The crewmen of the Apollo 11 lunar landing mission leave the Kennedy Space Center's (KSC) Manned Spacecraft Operations Building (MSOB) to ride the special transport van over to Launch Complex 39A where their spacecraft awaited them.
  • The Apollo 11 mission insignia - was the design used only for cloth patches (ie not as a logo on letterhead etc)? If so, call it 'mission patch insignia'?
    No, it was used as a logo. Collins calls it the "mission emblem", as does the press kit - went with that. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 20:16, 10 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Momentos
  • personal preference kit - explain what it is? i remembered from his article he also had a World Scout Badge. This kit is different to the 'bag of memorial items'?
    Yes. Added a bit about the PPK. The link takes you to Collins' PPK, which is in the NASM. The memorial bag was of official items. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 20:16, 10 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Site selection
  • result of two years of studies - apostrophe on years
  • Site 1: 34° East, 2°40' North, in the Sea of Tranquility (hmmm degrees minutes seconds?) The ref has Site One: 34° East, 2°40" North - so is the 40 minutes or seconds? (ditto all 5 site coordinates)
    Nota bene* Remember what happened in This is Spinal Tap? I don't think the ref is correct. @Kees08: Need you for this one. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 06:02, 10 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
    We could detail the zone they were interested in, instead of the exact locations. We could mention that three locations are selected per launch, to allow for launch delays. The paragraph should detail where they were looking to land (the zone), the down selection process, the requirement to have three landing sites, and perhaps the location of the final landing site. So I would remove the specific locations and do that, but I will leave it to you. Kees08 (Talk) 00:00, 14 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • The site needed to be smoothness, with relatively few craters - either 'to have smoothness' or 'to be smooth'
     Done Hawkeye7 (discuss) 06:02, 10 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Preparations
  • Early Apollo Surface Experiments Package - wlink to Apollo Lunar Surface Experiments Package
  • "crawler-transporter, bound for Launch Pad 39A" - add a copy ref 51 (Apollo 11 Mission Overview) for the rest of these dates
     Done Hawkeye7 (discuss) 06:02, 10 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • A countdown test commenced on June 27 - ref 51 says 26 June
    checkY Corrected. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 06:02, 10 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Fuelling was completed by three hours before launch - remove 'by'? (or US thing?)
    I know what you mean, but it's in the source. It means that it was completed sometime before then, not at that time. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 20:16, 10 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
    checkY My browser automatically corrects to Australian spellings. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 06:02, 10 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • written in the Atoll programming language. - ATOLL
     Done Hawkeye7 (discuss) 06:02, 10 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Haise entered Columbia about three hours and ten minutes before launch time - same time as fuelling taking place, more likely when it finished?
    Not sure. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 20:16, 10 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Finally, Aldrin entered, taking the center couch. The closeout crew sealed the hatch - when did Haise and tech leave?
    checkYAdded. Note that Aldrin is in the CMP's couch, a legacy of the crew shuffling. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 06:02, 10 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Mission
Launch and flight to lunar orbit
  • William C. Westmoreland - article doesn't use the C
    checkY Removed. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 06:02, 10 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • 60 ambassadors - they'd be foreign?
    Probably, but the sources don't say. The US ambassador to Canada might have driven down. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 06:02, 10 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Spiro T. Agnew - article doesn't use the T
    checkY Removed. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 06:02, 10 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Richard M. Nixon - article doesn't use the M
    checkY Alright. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 06:02, 10 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Apollo 11 on July 16, 1969, at 13:32:00 UTC (9:32:00 EDT) - wlink EDTand maybe UTC again? (UTC is wlinked in first line of lede)
  • the rocket stage flew on a trajectory past the Moon and into orbit around the Sun - comment - why?
    Nota bene* Good question. @Kees08: Any ideas about this? Hawkeye7 (discuss) 06:02, 10 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
    I do not think I will find a citation for this, but it is essentially a graveyard orbit. Since the Earth is orbiting around the Sun, you need enough energy to escape the Earth-Moon system and you will be in an orbit around the Sun. For a less successful example, see J002E3. An easier to visualize example is a satellite in a geosynchronous orbit. Since it would take so much propellant to send it back to Earth to burn it up in the atmosphere, they just push it further away from the Earth into a less useful orbit. Kees08 (Talk) 22:46, 13 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
    Actually, page 7, section 'SIVB "Slingshot"', describes why they did it. To avoid contact with the spacecraft, earth, or the moon (so the reasons I listed above). They passivated the spacecraft by venting propellants non-propulsively (a simple representation of this is to put a tee on the outlet of a thruster, so the force going out each end of the tee cancels out). I think I crossed the line where I have too much detail, so let me know if you want more. Not sure if you or Hawkeye want any of this in the article. Kees08 (Talk) 23:25, 13 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • major landing or extravehicular activity (EVA) challenges - abbreviated already
Lunar descent
  • Eagle was travelling too fast - US spelling is one L?
  • Or it could have been the - is this new sentence starting with 'Or' because not part of Kranz speculation?
    Yes. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 21:39, 10 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • unexpected "1202" and "1201" program alarms - swap order
     Done Hawkeye7 (discuss) 21:39, 10 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • in real time should it become necessary to do so. - 'to do so' not needed?
    checkY Deleted. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 21:39, 10 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Landing
  • ACA - explain?
  • "Out of detent. Auto"- fullstop?
  • 413 - explain?
    checkY Added: "ACA was the Attitude Control Assembly, the LM's control stick. Output went to the LM Guidance Computer (LGC) to command the RCS jets to fire. "Out of Detent" meant that the stick was moved away from its centered position. It was spring-centered like the turn signal control in a car. LGC address 413 contains the variable that indicated that the LM had landed." Kees08 is probably saying, "well, duh". I think this was added to give the reader a feel for what it sounded like. In addition, one notes that the CDR, not the LMP pilots the LM. The LM could be piloted automatically or the CDR could take manual control. Every CDR did. But it was just pointing the stick at where you want to go; the computer did all the rest. So it was more like the joystick in a computer game. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 21:39, 10 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • about 25 seconds of fuel left - apostrophe on seconds?
    I don't think so. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 21:06, 10 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • with "Engine arm is off", before - fullstop after 'off'
    No, because we are continuing the sentence after the quote. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 21:06, 10 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • and his communion kit was prepared by the pastor of the church, the Rev. Dean Woodruff - this can go? non notable church and reverend. Is in Aldrin's article.
    Keeping it in, but removed the sentence starting with "Aldrin described". Hawkeye7 (discuss) 21:06, 10 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • had been awake since early morning - add how many hours
    checkY Deleted this. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 21:06, 10 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Lunar surface operations
  • but on the Moon the cabin contained a large number of other items as well - any examples?
    checkY Added. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 21:06, 10 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • At 02:39 UTC on Monday July 21, 1969, Armstrong opened the hatch... - this is a repeated detail of " The hatch was opened at 02:39:33..." a few lines up
    checkY Deleted. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 21:06, 10 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Remote Control Unit - caps intentional?
    checkY Probably. De-capped. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 21:06, 10 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • folded against Eagle's side and activate the TV camera - adding 'to' before activate would read better
    checkY Hawkeye7 (discuss) 21:06, 10 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • incompatible with commercial TV - broadcast TV?
    checkY Changed. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 21:06, 10 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • The inscription read: - reads? ie still does
    Micrometeorites and the solar wind may have taken their toll over 50 years, but is should still be quite readable, but the MOS says we write everything in the past tense. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 21:06, 10 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • and "almost like a powder," - move comma outside
     Done Hawkeye7 (discuss) 21:06, 10 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • That's one small step for a man - this para aligns with Armstrong's FA?
    Yes, but it has a lot more discussion. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 21:06, 10 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Twelve minutes after the sample was collected,[2] He removed the TV camera - uncap he
     Done Hawkeye7 (discuss) 21:06, 10 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • integrated thermal meteoroid garment - wlink to Thermal Micrometeoroid Garment?
     Done Hawkeye7 (discuss) 21:06, 10 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
    Add micro to meteoroid to fix redlink JennyOz (talk) 01:18, 13 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • but Frank Borman, who was at the White House as a NASA liaison - this is a better description of his role than where he is first mentioned just as an 'astronaut'
    checkY Added earlier. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 21:06, 10 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • During this period, Mission They deployed the EASEP - something gone wrong here
    checkY Deleted some stray words. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 21:06, 10 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • used for the Lunar Laser Ranging Experiment - lowercase e on experiment (is e at Moon rocks section and in own article)
     Done Hawkeye7 (discuss) 21:06, 10 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • core tubes - wlink to Core sample
     Done Hawkeye7 (discuss) 21:06, 10 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • geological hammer - Geologist's
     Done Hawkeye7 (discuss) 21:06, 10 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Armalcolite was named after Armstrong, Aldrin, and Collins. - using italics formatting per its article?
    Not sure what you mean here. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 21:06, 10 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
    Sorry, my question should have used 'use' not 'using'. See second sentence Armalcolite lede where italics are used to clarify how Armalcolite is derived from their names. JennyOz (talk) 01:18, 13 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Control used a coded phrase... Mission Control - swap
     Done Hawkeye7 (discuss) 21:06, 10 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Lunar ascent and return
  • This was an inefficient tool - sounds like they were sent with a bad tool, maybe 'proved to be an inefficient tool'
    checkY Changed. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 21:39, 10 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • items in his suit pocket sleeve - sleeve pocket?
    checkY Re-worded. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 21:39, 10 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • one Hasselblad camera - after removing its film? emptied Hasselblad
    checkY added. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 21:39, 10 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • resulting in it impacting in an "uncertain location" on the lunar surface... then "and would have impacted on the Moon" - repetitive
    checkY Deleted. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 21:39, 10 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • On July 23, the last night before splashdown - add 'on Earth'
  • through the blood, sweat, and tears of a number of a people - remove the 'a' before people (I can't access ref 61 but used this)
  • Greg later was thanked by Armstrong - move 'later'
Splashdown and quarantine
  • On July 12, with Apollo 11 still on the launch pad, Hornet departed Pearl Harbor to retrieve the crew. - 'to prepare' to retrieve
    checkY Re-worded. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 10:19, 11 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Apollo recovery area - not yet defined? First sentence should mention where splashdown expected?
    checkY Re-worded. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 10:19, 11 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Poor visibility was serious threat - a?
  • checkY Added. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 10:19, 11 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • locate the command module, the spacecraft - what is spacecraft referring to here?
    checkY Changed "command module" to "Columbia". Hawkeye7 (discuss) 10:19, 11 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • its priceless cargo of moon rocks - priceless warranted? sorta devalues the crew?
    checkY Well we were willing to risk them for it. Nice of you to bring that up. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 10:19, 11 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Fleet Weather Center - pipe wlink to Joint Typhoon Warning Center?
    checkY Linked. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 10:19, 11 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • A different sequence of computer programs was used, one never before attempted - not clear? what is the 'sequence' ie program 3 swapped to five? to change the flight plan coordinates or software replacement?
    checkY Added: In a conventional entry, P64 is followed by P67. For a skip-out re-entry, P65 and P66 are employed to handle the exit and entry parts of the skip. In this case, because they were extending the re-entry but not actually skipping out, P66 was not invoked and instead P65 led directly to P67. The crew were also informed that they would not be in a full-lift (heads-down) attitude when the entered P67. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 10:19, 11 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • a new splashdown target was designated,[119] 215 nautical miles (398 km) northeast of the original - as above the 'original' has been defined?
    checkY Alright, I've added the lattitude and longitude. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 10:19, 11 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Before dawn on July 24 - local time not UTC
    Question? Do we need to say that? Hawkeye7 (discuss) 10:19, 11 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • the drogue parachutes were deployed. - last mention was the sea kings so insert Columbia's before drogue. What altitude was she?
    checkY Added. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 10:19, 11 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • There is no mention of re-entry, force on them, prep inside, etc
    checkY Added how many Gs they were pulling. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 10:19, 11 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Columbia struck the water forcefully - confirm was in target area?
    checkY Noted. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 10:19, 11 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • flotation bags triggered by the astronauts - activated?
    checkY Hawkeye7 (discuss) 10:19, 11 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • and position rafts - did they attach things called 'position rafts' or is position a verb here ie should be positioned?
    checkY Yes. Corrected. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 10:19, 11 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • no mention of what astronauts said to recovery people
    Meh. Apollo 11 was all business. Hawkeye7 (discuss)
  • biological isolation garments - no wlink available? closest I could find was Hazmat suit
    Look quite different to me. Here's Buzz's suit Hawkeye7 (discuss) 10:19, 11 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Divers provided the astronauts with Biological Isolation Garments (BIGs) - this repeats prev sentence (and the suits were put through hatch before the astronauts got out)
    checkY Deleted. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 10:19, 11 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • wiped with Betadine to remove - does it have to use brand name here? (even though yes ref at 12-8 says "Betadine, a water-soluble iodine solution"). Betadine is a redirect.
    It's what the source says. (One of my work colleagues confused it with methyl iodide in a chemistry test.) Hawkeye7 (discuss) 10:19, 11 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • The raft containing decontamination materials was then intentionally sunk - missing a bit before here ie astronauts first got into (winched?) helicopter
    checkY Added. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 10:19, 11 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • lowered by the elevator into hangar bay - 'the' hangar bay?
    checkY Added. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 10:19, 11 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • the five-ton Command Module - convert?
     Done Hawkeye7 (discuss) 10:19, 11 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • dolly - just use 'trolley' seeing a dolly can also be a boat launcher
    checkY I think it's the right term. Linked. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 10:19, 11 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • ref at 12-9 talks of the command module being attached with a flexible tunnel to the MQF and the samples, films etc being moved in.
    Question? Which reference is this? Hawkeye7 (discuss) 10:19, 11 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
    Sorry, the ref Manned Spacecraft Center (November 1969). Apollo 11 Mission Report (PDF). on p 262, (12-9)
    Okay, I see the problem. My hard copy of the Mission report is SP-238, not MSC-00171. They appear to be identical, but the page numbering is different. Switched the reference to SP-238 so we're all on the same page. Added a bit about the flexible tunnel. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 05:38, 13 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • and finally in the Lunar Receiving Laboratory ), - remove space before closing bracket
  • checkY Deleted. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 10:19, 11 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • On August 10, 1969,... - when were their families allowed to visit? between then and parades?
    Their wives visited them while they were in the MQF. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 10:19, 11 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • bill of health - there is nothing here about reacclimatizing eg weight / gravity
    All were in good health. They were only gone for a week, not months like the folks in the International Space Station. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 10:19, 11 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Celebration
Legacy
Spacecraft
  • (NASM) in Washington, DC - D.C.?
    NASA style guide says ti use "DC". Hawkeye7 (discuss) 10:19, 11 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Armstrong's and Aldrin's space suits are displayed - first apostrophe correct?
    Yes. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 10:19, 11 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • righting spheres - ?
    checkY Changed to "flotation bags", which is the term I used earlier in the article. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 10:19, 11 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • on display along with a test lunar module, - fullstop
     Done Hawkeye7 (discuss) 10:19, 11 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • are presumed to lie at an unknown location - can't presume it's unknown - it's unknown.
    checkY Deleted. Hawkeye7 (discuss)
  • and impacting the Moon - is this what is presumed?
    Yes. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 10:19, 11 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • located the F-1 engines - is a redirect. Insert 'used in the Saturn V rocket'?
    checkY Added "from the S-IC stage" Hawkeye7 (discuss) 10:19, 11 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Steven F. Udvar-Hazy Center - wlink
    checkY Linked. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 10:19, 11 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • from October 14, 2017 to March 18, 2018, etc - are these specific dates warranted? Maybe reduce to months not specific dates?
    The later dates are still current and may be of use to the readers. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 10:19, 11 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Moon rocks
  • at the Lyndon B. Johnson Space Center - is a redirect
    checkY Unlinked. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 10:19, 11 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • wlink of Houston, Texas - should have been linked first at "Inside Mission Control Center in Houston, Texas"
     Done Hawkeye7 (discuss) 10:19, 11 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • For safe keeping, there - safekeeping one word
     Done} Hawkeye7 (discuss) 10:19, 11 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • White Sands Test Facility in Las Cruces, New Mexico - near Las Cruces
     Done Hawkeye7 (discuss) 10:19, 11 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
40th anniversary events
  • Life.com released a photo gallery - digital only on their website, not in print?
    They don't publish in print any more. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 10:19, 11 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • In addition, it is in the process of restoring - update?
  • set up an Adobe Flash website that rebroadcasts the transmissions - does it still?
  • Re 40th anniversary too much info? - presumably 1st, 5th, 10th, 20th, 25th etc were also commemorated. Maybe a sentence. Will need a section for plans for 50th which must be underway by now?
    Nota bene*@Kees08: I'm tempted to remove the entire first paragraph. How do you feel about that? Do were have anything on the 50th? I know NASA will want to celebrate, but it will not be a good time politically in the US, so it may not be as big as the 40th. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 10:19, 11 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
    NASA has settled on a logo for the 50th [3], so that's the hard part done. NASM is celebrating [4] and the US mint has issued a commemorative coin [5] Hawkeye7 (discuss) 01:52, 12 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
    I would be fine with changing the section title to Anniversary events and creating a main article List of Apollo 11 anniversary events. I recall events for both the 40th and 45th anniversaries, I am sure there was something on the 25th, and there will certainly be events for the 50th. We could then summarize the major events that occur during the anniversaries here. Thoughts on that? Kees08 (Talk) 23:07, 13 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Let me know any clarification needed of my comments. I saw a list somewhere of articles being considered for 50th, can you remind me where it is pls? Regards, JennyOz (talk) 02:05, 10 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

WP:S2019 is the shortcut. The DYK page has the most articles. A co-run of Neil Armstrong, Buzz Aldrin, Michael Collins, and Apollo 11 would be fantastic on the anniversary, but that is a conversation for another page. Kees08 (Talk) 02:35, 10 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Note: hope I did not step on your toes Hawkeye, saw there were a lot of comments so started hitting some of the easy ones. Kees08 (Talk) 02:44, 10 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
There are some clarification requests. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 10:19, 11 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
@Hawkeye7: I made some recommendations, left the edits to you unless you want me to perform them. Let me know if you disagree with my suggestions. Kees08 (Talk) 00:04, 14 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Hi Hawkeye7 and Kees08, I'll try to explain myself. When I asked about emphasising splashdown by adding 'Earth', and suggested adding a bit more about re-entry, and my comment about 'priceless' etc, what I'm suggesting is a little more weight to be given to what was the stated original goal of the mission... to get a man there and safely back.
Kennedy said to Congress "First, I believe that this nation should commit itself to achieving the goal, before this decade is out, of landing a man on the moon and returning him safely to the earth."... "one purpose which this nation will never overlook: the survival of the man who first makes this daring flight." He said at Rice, "...then return it safely to earth, re-entering the atmosphere at speeds of over 25 thousand miles per hour, causing heat about half that of the temperature of the sun—almost as hot as it is here today—and do all this, and do it right, and do it first before this decade is out—then we must be bold"
NASA says in summary top of this "The purpose of the Apollo 11 mission was to land men on the lunar surface and to return them safely to earth ." Somewhere else (I've temporarily lost which ref) says "This stride in the Space Race was at least as much to get a man there and home alive as it was to collect samples." Our Space Race article says "When the spacecraft splashed down, 2,982 days had passed since Kennedy's commitment to landing a man on the Moon and returning him safely to the Earth before the end of the decade; the mission was completed with 161 days to spare.[139] With the safe completion of the Apollo 11 mission, the Americans won the race to the Moon"
(If the rocks/samples hadn't made it back but the 3 astronauts did (and were alive), there'd have been just as much rejoicing of success?)
The splashdown was the actual minute that the success was realised. "Safely to Earth". JFK emphasised it and I bet everyone at mission control held their breath at that moment more than at any time in the whole mission. Start from Earth --- finish on Earth.
PS and Hawkeye, if EEng adds that comment to Astonishment or to his wonderful museums (I've been terrified to check), I will have some trouble finding my forgiveness button for you pinging him. JennyOz (talk) 04:48, 15 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
The deed is done, I fear! [6] If you can forgive me nonetheless, let me suggest On July 23, the last night before their return to Earth... BTW, I can't agree that The splashdown was the actual minute that the success was realised: there's many a slip twixt the cup and the lip. EEng 05:19, 15 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

@Hawkeye7 and JennyOz: Is there more to do here? I do have a couple of suggestions that I was going to have Hawkeye implement (like the list of apollo anniversaries), or otherwise tell me they are a bad idea. Not sure if there is anything else? Kees08 (Talk) 00:50, 16 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

@Kees08 and Hawkeye7: Thanks Kees08 for the reminder. Will look over. JennyOz (talk) 22:32, 16 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks @Kees08 and Hawkeye7: for your patience! I have added my support. Pls though check this... back on Oct 18 an edit was made to Insignia "put an olive branch in its beak, and drew a lunar background", changing 'beak' to 'talons'. Was good faith but editor missed reading its following sentences? Should it be changed back? Regards, JennyOz (talk) 11:13, 17 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
checkY Changed it back. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 19:51, 17 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
@Hawkeye7: Tom Wilson, a simulator instructor, was actually who suggested the olive branch. Right now it implies Lovell came up with that too. Not sure if we should modify that to make it more clear. Kees08 (Talk) 21:17, 17 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
checkY Fixed that. And corrected an error I found in the process. I moved the insignia section above the call signs one, which is more logical. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 22:49, 17 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Nick-D[edit]

Proper review this time. The article is excellent, and my comments are pretty minor:

  • What "1201 and 1202 program alarms" are is unclear, though they are later explained. Does this technical term need to be used?
    We chose to do so because they are so frequently referenced in sources. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 03:23, 9 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
    OK, fair enough. Nick-D (talk) 09:54, 15 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
    They are also mentioned in the audio of the landing, which is attached to the page..
  • The para starting with "The Apollo onboard flight software for both the CM and LM was developed" seems overly specific. Does it need to be included?
    Seems pretty basic to me. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 03:23, 9 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
    I can follow it, but I'm not sure that the topic it covers needs so much detail. Nick-D (talk) 09:54, 15 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
    Removed this paragraph. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 23:17, 16 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Armstrong stepped off Eagle's footpad and declared: "That's one small step for [a] man, one giant leap for mankind."[92][93][94][95]" - are four references needed for this famous fact?
    Where the controversy comes in is with the "[a]". This appears in the transcripts. Trimmed back to one reference; moved two to the next paragraph. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 03:23, 9 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • At what time did the moonwalkers re-enter Eagle?
    Added that the hatch was closed at 05:01 UTC. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 03:23, 9 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • The first part of the first para of the "Spacecraft" section would benefit from the dates Columbia was displayed in Washington, DC - when I read it I started to wonder what had happened to this icon!
    It was displayed at the NASM from 1971 to 2017. It's in Pittsburgh at the moment. Added a bit of explanation. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 03:23, 9 November 2018 (UTC) Nick-D (talk) 10:21, 8 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
    Hope this addresses your concerns. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 23:17, 16 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Support My comments are now addressed - great work with this article. All the best for FAC, and it will be good to see it on the front page next year. Nick-D (talk) 02:58, 17 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Comments by Kees08[edit]

Going to make some comments here. Reviewing just the sources for now.

  • Publisher name for the Smithsonian should be consistent
  • Is the bible citation correct..or needed?
    checkY I like the way we have short quotes from each of the three astronauts. The quote is correct (in the KJV). The reference is in the footnotes in case anyone wants to look it up. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 01:35, 18 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
    Just weird to me, since we have the quote cited. We can leave it in though. Kees08 (Talk)
  • Can we split the Orloff citation up? It is from pages 102-110 and has 15 different cites. Can probably bust that up a bit.
     Done Hawkeye7 (discuss) 07:04, 18 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • At least one citation (Excerpt from the 'Special Message to the Congress on Urgent National Needs') uses the last updated date as the citation date. Other cites (one of the Apollo 11 Surface Journal cites) uses the original publication date (1995) and not the most recent one. Probably should get them all consistent. I always use the original publication date. Wish our templates allowed for last updated so you could indicate which version you used.
    checkY We'll go with your way. Corrected that reference. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 01:35, 18 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • The citation titled Flight Directors is from SP-4029 and can probably be expanded
     Done Hawkeye7 (discuss) 07:04, 18 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Use an endash on this? Capitalize it consistently too perhaps "Apollo 11 Flight Journal - Day 1, part 1: Launch"
     Done Hawkeye7 (discuss) 07:04, 18 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Looks like Sarah Loff authored this? "Apollo 11 Mission Overview"
    checkY Added. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 07:04, 18 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • For "Apollo-11 (27)", if you scroll to the bottom there is more author information. Looks like NASA SP-350.
    checkY Removed. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 09:21, 19 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • For "Failure is Not an Option (TV production)", are we required to have a timestamp?
    Don't see the harm. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 09:21, 19 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Honeysuckle Creek : the story of Tom Reid, a little dish and Neil Armstrong's first step" should probably be in references
    No page number, so removed. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 09:21, 19 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • 35th anniversary citation uses parameter "|origyear=updated December 9, 2007", i think incorrectly?
    checkY Removed. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 09:21, 19 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Of the three citations supporting "More recent digital analysis of the tape claims to reveal the "a" may have been spoken but obscured by static.", two are from BBC news. Could probably get rid of one, or replace it with another. Would be nice to replace the Snopes citation with something better if available as well.
    They say different things. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 09:21, 19 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • This is a draft copy, is the official version available? "Lunar Sample Compendium: Contingency Soil (10010)"
    No. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 09:21, 19 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Can we get a better source than The Attic? Seems like a blog?
    Haven't got anything. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 09:21, 19 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • We can probably be more detailed than: "This was related by Frank Borman during the 2008 documentary When We Left Earth: The NASA Missions, Part 2."
    checkY Replaced with a reference from Borman's autobiography. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 09:21, 19 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • I think UC Santa Barbara is probably the publisher here: "Richard Nixon: Telephone Conversation With the Apollo 11 Astronauts on the Moon". The American Presidency Project. Retrieved October 26, 2018.
     Done Hawkeye7 (discuss) 09:21, 19 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • This can be expanded: "Moon-walk mineral discovered in Western Australia". ScienceDaily. Retrieved September 24, 2018.
     Done Hawkeye7 (discuss) 09:21, 19 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Based on the homepage of The Smoking Gun, we can probably do better than that
    It has copies of the original documents. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 09:21, 19 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wrong dash: Manned Spacecraft Center 1969, pp. 169-170.
    The Bot can deal with it. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 09:21, 19 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Is The New Nixon a RS?
    checkY Replaced with The American Presidency Project. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 09:21, 19 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Looking at the linked Google Book, this citation could have more detail: Extra-Terrestrial Exposure, 34 Fed. Reg. 11975 (July 16, 1969), codified at 14 C.F.R. pt. 1200
    Unable. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 09:21, 19 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Nothing inherently wrong with this source, but we could probably have better: "A Front Row Seat For History". NASAexplores. NASA. July 15, 2004. Archived from the original on March 19, 2006. Retrieved June 14, 2013.
  • Not sure about Lunar Hall of Fame either (in terms of RS)
  • Same with Fodors Travel. If not replaced, the citation can be improved
  • I think magazine should be capitalized per this for Maksel, Rebecca (February 22, 2017). "Apollo 11 Moonship To Go On Tour". Air and Space magazine. Retrieved August 27, 2017.
    checkY Hawkeye7 (discuss) 09:21, 19 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Date does not match up: "LRO Sees Apollo Landing Sites". NASA. March 10, 2015. Retrieved September 25, 2018.
    checkY Corrected. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 09:21, 19 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Expand this: Bezos, Jeff (July 19, 2013). "F-1 Engine Recovery – Updates".
     Done Hawkeye7 (discuss) 09:21, 19 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • This title looks auto-generated and could be cleaner: "Apollo 11 SIVB NSSDCA/COSPAR ID: 1969-059B". NASA. Archived from the original on February 19, 2017.
    Looks correct. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 09:21, 19 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Expand this: Earth magazine, March 2011, pp. 42–51
    Unable. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 09:21, 19 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Are these dashes right? Bates, Lauderdale & Kernaghan 1979, pp. 2-3, 4-32.
    Job for the Bot. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 09:21, 19 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
    What I meant is that the page number could be 2-3, and a hyphen is correct. If it is a range of pages, it would not be correct. We would need to know if the page numbers follow the 2-1 format or not, and the bot could not know (I submitted a bot request for this and it was rejected for this specific reason). Kees08 (Talk) 22:53, 19 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Okay the sports game I am watching is ramping up, I am taking a break. Will have more comments. Kees08 (Talk) 00:23, 18 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

No worries. I'm off to the Canberra Capitals game. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 01:35, 18 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
77-65. Knew you would want to know that. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 07:04, 18 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Very good! My team lost in triple overtime, which really sucked the wind out of my day. Kees08 (Talk) 07:53, 19 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Side note, for whichever coordinator closes this, I am involved with astronaut biographies and a bit with this one, in case you want to factor that into my eventual vote. Kees08 (Talk) 07:53, 19 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Image review[edit]

  • Why is the Apollo II mission in there twice? Suggest pulling it from the infobox unless that's a common theme among all the Apollo missions.

Support by Chetsford[edit]

I'm about a month late to this party so there's not much I can say here since most possible criticism has been addressed. I wrote the articles on John Hirasaki and William Carpentier so I have an inkling of knowledge about Apollo 11 via them, but not to the level of others here; ergo, I restricted my review to technical matters primarily instead of content and in that respect could find nothing lacking. The only possible comment, if I really stretch, is that maybe in the Mementos section there would be room to mention the two Purdue University centennial flags that Armstrong took with him [7], [8]? That said, this section could quickly balloon up to be half the article if we start cramming stuff in there so I'm sure it would be fine to omit, as well; there's so many asterisks associated with Apollo 11 that a risk is run of turning this into a collection of trivia if some standards of brevity aren't applied. In any case, what a really fantastic job on this! Chetsford (talk) 18:39, 8 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
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