Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/Assessment/Arthur S. Carpender

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article promoted Nick-D (talk) 23:56, 25 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Arthur S. Carpender[edit]

Nominator(s): Hawkeye7 (talk)

Continuing the series on senior commanders in the South West Pacific Area during World War II. Had a couple of lucky breaks researching this one. Hawkeye7 (talk) 06:18, 8 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Support ~~Comments~~

do we know what the landing force that was put ashore from the Marietta was tasked with?
- I don't know; do you have any suggested sources? Hawkeye7 (talk) 12:12, 8 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  - I added a little bit of context. I think that this would be enough - what do you think? AustralianRupert (talk) 23:42, 8 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
are there anymore details about what Carpender did during the occupation of Veracruz? Was he involved in any significant battles/actions?
- I don't know; do you have any suggested sources? Hawkeye7 (talk) 12:12, 8 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  - It probably only needs a sentence that outlines what the First Regiment of Bluejackets did in order to provide a little context to Carpender's involvement. I did a quick Google Books search, though, and it brought up some possibilities [1]. Sweetman's 1968 Landing at Veracruz might be useful. Sorry, I don't know much about this period. AustralianRupert (talk) 23:42, 8 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
    - Hi, I did a few searches and found something, so I've added a little bit of detail on this. Please let me know what you think. Feel free to adjust as you see fit. Regards, AustralianRupert (talk) 10:11, 15 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
the Between the wars section begins with "Carpender returned to the United States..." however, I don't think that it is clear where he was before this as the last section ends with him at Newport News;
- Added a bit. Hawkeye7 (talk) 12:12, 8 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
images look appropriately licenced, although is there a url or a book source for "File:Arthur Carpender.jpg"?
- Nope. Hawkeye7 (talk) 12:12, 8 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
is ancestry.com considered a reliable source? If so, you might mention that Carpender was one of seven children per [2];
- Not so far as I am aware. I only used it for one small fact. Added though. Hawkeye7 (talk) 12:12, 8 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
this paragraph seems a little confusing, "In November 1942, Carpender turned down a request..." as it says that he refused in the first sentence, but then in the second sentence it says that the escort mission occured. Was his decision overruled? Does this then link to the third sentence where Sutherland mentions his displeasure? If so, I think the link needs to be made a little clearer. AustralianRupert (talk) 10:28, 8 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- Not really; the escort was only by corvettes, and was a month later. Added a bit. MacArthur could not, of course, overrule Carpender. We do not know exactly what Sutherland said to King; I have checked the minutes and it was not recorded. I have not checked the COMINCH files though. We can be sure that the reluctance to risk his ships was one cause of annoyance at GHQ. There were others though. I am aware of arguments regarding the award of decorations, the handling of intelligence, and the chain of command. Could have been more though. Hawkeye7 (talk) 12:12, 8 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Coordinator: It looks like this article needs more work. I would like to withdraw it and re-nominate it at a later date. Hawkeye7 (talk) 22:04, 8 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I personally don't think it is too bad, Hawkeye, and given that articles usually take about 2 months to transit ACR these days, I think you would probably be able to get it up to scratch by then. That's just my opinion, though, and if you want to withdraw the nomination, that's fine too. I'd be happy to help in any way I can, or simply just re-review next time. Cheers, AustralianRupert (talk) 23:42, 8 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- I'm happy to add my support to the article. I think it has enough coverage now for A-class. Good work as usual, Hawkeye. Regards, AustralianRupert (talk) 00:11, 21 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Comments:

I think it's close to AC standard.
"A direct descendant of Wolphert Gerretse Van Kouwenhoven," - its linked, but if this said "A direct descendant of the Dutch settler Wolphert..." it would prevent someone having to leave the article to understand the significance.
- Done. Hawkeye7 (talk) 13:06, 14 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
"Carpender helped fit out a new destroyer squadron..." Was this a new appointment? (He was previously a Professor)
- Added a bit. Hawkeye7 (talk) 13:06, 14 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
"World War II" - minor, but in 1939 the US hadn't joined the war. Might be worth starting the section with something like "In 1939 World War II broke out; although the US had yet to to join the war, it began to mobilise military resources. Carpenter helped fit out..." That way the casual reader can place the events in the article in the wider context.
Also worth making clear in the sequence when the war for the US did begin (in case the reader doesn't know the date of Pearl Harbor)
- It is more complicated than that. The Naval historians generally consider that the US was at war in the Atlantic from 4 September 1941. So Carpender took over an organisation that had been fighting for some months. Hawkeye7 (talk) 13:06, 14 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
"Leary had clashed with MacArthur over the former's reluctance to risk his ships, and his habit of communicating directly with King without going through MacArthur's General Headquarters (GHQ) in Brisbane." The "the former", "his ships" and "his habits" made it slightly hard to work out who this was talking about on first reading. How about "Leary was reluctant to risk his ships and had a habit of communicating directly with King without going through MacArthur's General Headquarters (GHQ) in Brisbane; this caused serious arguments between Leary and MacArthur."?
- Reworded. Hawkeye7 (talk) 13:06, 14 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
"Carpender oversaw the Seventh Fleet's operations during Operation Cartwheel." - again, worth giving an indicator of what the Op was in the sentence itself (e.g. "...during Operation Cartwheel, an attack on the Japanese at Rabaul.")
- Done. Hawkeye7 (talk)
Do naval historians think Carpender was a success? Reading between the lines of his WWII service, he didn't seem to have been a tremendous success, but I may be doing him an injustice.
- No, you are just basing your assessment on what I have written. This reflects the consensus of military historians. As for naval historians, Morison defends Carpender against the criticisms from GHQ and LHQ, but goes too far. Blair only covers the submarines. Pfennigsworth praises his good relations with the RAN. Wheeler merely notes that King relieved Carpender for an inability to get along with GHQ. Hawkeye7 (talk) 13:06, 14 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Hchc2009 (talk) 06:59, 14 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

NB: I now support. Hchc2009 (talk) 11:36, 12 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Support -- I reviewed and passed this at GA not long ago and, checking all changes/additions since then I think it meets A-Class standards for prose, structure, detail, referencing and supporting materials as well; just made a couple of very minor tweaks. Note I haven't performed a spotcheck of sources on this but did so for another of Hawkeye's articles recently at FAC (Truman's Relief of MacArthur) so I don't feel I need to here... ;-) Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 23:03, 19 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

P.S. Just for future reference, while I think this is A-Class standard due to its full coverage of his military career, I don't know that I'd go to FAC with it in this form as info on his later life seems a bit threadbare -- I often find the same thing with my air force bios, and generally hold off on FAC for those for the same reason. FWIW... Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 23:08, 19 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Agreed. Some articles are just like that. Hawkeye7 (talk) 12:31, 20 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Support
- No dab links [3] (no action required).
- External links all check out [4] (no action required).
- A couple of the images lack Alt Text so you might consider adding it for consistency [5] (suggestion only - not an ACR requirement).
  - Added. Hawkeye7 (talk) 00:11, 20 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- The Citation Check Tool reveals no errors with reference consolidation (no action required).
- The images used are all PD and are appropriate to the article (no action required).
- This is a little repetitive: "After this, the town was cleared and defense lines established before the naval troops handed over to United States Army troops on 30 April." Specifically "naval troops" and United States Army troops" - might this be tweaked (minor nitpick/suggestion only)?
  - Re-worded: The town was cleared and defense lines established before it was handed over to United States Army troops on 30 April. Hawkeye7 (talk) 00:11, 20 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- This is also a little repetitive: "As the situation at Finschhafen became increasingly precarious, Lieutenant General Sir Edmund Herring became frustrated with Carpender's attitude...", specifically use of "became" twice in the same sentence (minor nitpick/suggestion only).
  - Changed the second one to "grew" Hawkeye7 (talk) 00:11, 20 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- I found a minor typo (fixed) but otherwise this article is quite well written and covers the topic well. IMO it meets the ACR criteria, well done. Anotherclown (talk) 22:26, 19 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  - Thabkyou for your review. Hawkeye7 (talk) 00:11, 20 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page, such as the current discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.