Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/Assessment/Peter Badcoe

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The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article promoted by Zawed (talk) via MilHistBot (talk) 10:20, 9 July 2019 (UTC) « Return to A-Class review list[reply]

Peter Badcoe[edit]

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Nominator(s): Peacemaker67 (talk)

Peter Badcoe (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

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Badcoe is the latest in my project to get all South Australian VCs to FA, and the only one from the Vietnam War. He was an eccentric character, known to our American allies as "The Galloping Major". He didn't look like a warrior but was a tiger in combat. His VC was posthumous, and related to three separate acts of gallantry over a couple of months in early 1967. His VC sold for nearly half a million dollars in 2008. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 01:33, 25 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Support: I reviewed this at GAN. have reviewed the changes since then and believe it meets the A-class criteria. Nice work. Regards, AustralianRupert (talk) 11:05, 26 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Support Comments As always, this article is in great shape. I have the following comments:

  • "He has been honoured by the naming of various buildings and awards after him" - little bit clunky
  • Do we know why he changed his surname?
  • I can't believe I didn't notice that. It's clearly self-explanatory! Nick-D (talk) 08:17, 27 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • "and observed how that country was resisting the Viet Cong and North Vietnamese insurgency" - as I understand it, the general view is that South Vietnam was losing the war at this stage - this wording suggests it was successfully resisting. Perhaps replace "resisting" with "combating" or similar?
  • "expressing his concerns about the conduct of the war" - could this be elaborated on? Was he concerned with tactical issues, or the value/purpose of the conflict? (from a quick check, there's quite a bit of detail on this in On the Offensive, the second volume of the official history focused on the Australian Army in Vietnam - I have a copy, and can add material if helpful. The short version is that Badcoe saw the war as unwinnable and was horrified by an incident where ARVN forces used napalm on civilians. The official historians focused on Badcoe as an example of how some soldiers in the field were deeply concerned about the war by 1967, with Badcoe's views being particularly noteworthy given his previous enthusiasm for the war and high performance in his duties).
Changed the wording to a quote from Blanch and Pegram, but would welcome any additions you might make from the OH. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 07:24, 27 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I've added a para on this, as well as the OH's strong praise of his service and character. Nick-D (talk) 08:17, 27 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • "and indicating that he should come home" - not sure about the "should" here. Based on the official history, something like "indicating that he wished to come home" might better reflect his views.
  • "a squadron of armoured personnel carriers (APCs) " - is the terminology right here? I think, but could easily be totally wrong, that the ARVN used American naming conventions and a squadron would have been a battalion-equivalent.
  • Good point, a squadron in our terms would be a battalion lift, which seems excessive for one company of ARVN plus two companies of RF. I've removed it for now, particularly as I don't have McNeill to hand to check. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 07:24, 27 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • I just checked my copy (...which I'd forgotten I owned!), and he says it was a squadron. Presumably the ARVN were using French rather than US terminology for armoured units. Nick-D (talk) 08:17, 27 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Could you note how the VC was awarded? As I understand it, it would have been presented to his widow.
  • It might be worth noting somewhere that the AATTV was the most-awarded Australian Army unit of the Vietnam War to help place Badcoe's service in context. Nick-D (talk) 03:00, 27 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Those changes look great, and I'm very pleased to support this nomination. Nick-D (talk) 08:17, 27 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Support Comments my first for a while...

  • "Badcoe's deputy was killed and he left the vehicle ..." - maybe 'His deputy was killed and Badcoe left the vehicle...'? There were other vehicles / a convoy?
  • "...the ARVN regiment he was working with called in a napalm strike on a Viet Cong-occupied village whose population was strongly supportive of the government instead of attempting to attack and dislodge the Communist troops." Maybe some commas, after "strike" and "government" or after "village" and "government"?
  • "Badcoe realised that the force did not have any advisers, because one of the Hac Bao advisers was ill, and advisers were required to work in pairs. Due to the lack of advisers, the ARVN were unable to access close air support to dislodge the Viet Cong." - so this means that because one was ill, the other was also absent? If so, maybe change "Due to the lack of..." to "Without any..." (I gathered this from ADB which is stronger ie "Knowing that the company would be denied air support unless advisers were present")
  • Stokes's purchase of VC - it's not clear that he not a personal collector, could clarify that he bought it with the intention of donating it / stopping it leaving Australia. Perhaps simply by inserting 'philanthropist' after "magnate" in "...sold for A$488,000 to the media magnate Kerry Stokes..."
  • Is it worth mentioning that Badcoe's VC was one of only four from Vietnam?
  • Worth a mention of this rehab complex at Edinburgh?
  • Categories - Australian military personnel killed in the Vietnam War‎ is a subcat of Australian military personnel of the Vietnam War
  • Outside this review but thought I'd suggest...,

Thanks PM, I very much appreciated reading about Badcoe. JennyOz (talk) 13:24, 7 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you very much for taking a look, JennyOz. I think I've addressed all your points. Here are my edits. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 06:22, 8 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for the tweaks Peacemaker67, very happy to sign support, JennyOz (talk) 06:57, 8 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

G'day Nikkimaria, if you have a chance, would you mind taking a look at the image licensing for this article? Cheers, Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 06:50, 8 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Images are appropriately licensed. Nikkimaria (talk) 12:25, 8 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks Nikkimaria! Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 01:20, 9 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Sources:

  • AustralianRupert, given you checked them at GAN, would you mind running your eyes over the sources? Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 01:21, 9 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    • G'day, the sources look reliable for what they are citing. However, I wasn't quite sure of this recent addition: "In 1994, the Ex-Military Rehabilitation Centre was established in the "Peter Badcoe VC Complex" at Edinburgh, South Australia". Wasn't it at the Hamsptead Rehab Hospital in 1994, and only moved to Edinburgh in 1999? Regards, AustralianRupert (talk) 05:10, 9 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
      • Thanks AR, my mistake. Must have read that wrong. Fixed. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 06:34, 9 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
        • No worries. The source sentence is a bit convoluted, so potentially it could be read either way. I think what you have now is correct, though. Regards, AustralianRupert (talk) 07:58, 9 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
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