Wikipedia talk:WikiProject EastEnders/Archive 2

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Archive
Project log
To do list
Recent changes in categories:
EastEnders | Actors | Characters | Directors | Families | Images | Lists | Locations | People | Producers | Storylines | Stubs | Writers


New talk page!

The talk page was 40KB long, so I moved it to an archive and started a new one... Trampikey 17:45, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

And a new member too!

Big EastEnders fan here, looking forward to participating more! AnemoneProjectors 18:07, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

Welcome! Trampikey 18:28, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

P.S. I'm not that new. AnemoneProjectors (talk) 18:42, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

Proposed spin-offs article

I think the title should be EastEnders spin-offs, rather than List of EastEnders spin-offs, but I'm not sure. Any thoughts? AnemoneProjectors (talk) 18:42, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

Yeah I suppose, but then it could be argued that List of residences in EastEnders and List of buildings in EastEnders could be moved to Residences in EastEnders and Buildings in EastEnders... Trampikey 18:50, 14 June 2006 (UTC)
Well, I'm thinking this is going to be more like Storylines of EastEnders which isn't a list of storylines. Also I was thinking of Doctor Who spin-offs. Hmm, I didn't even know there was a Pat and Mo spin off. I feel I have missed out! AnemoneProjectors (talk) 19:01, 14 June 2006 (UTC)
It was a flash back to their youth, and told the whole story of their fued etc. I think the two of them met at Jimmy's grave and reminisced, but I'm not sure... Trampikey 19:54, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

I saw it, it was quite boring actually. It explained why Pat started going on the game. She and Mo used to be best mates apparently. Mo was married to Pat's brother and for some reason he and Pat fell out. He supposedly wanted to make up with Pat before his death, and wrote everything in a letter, but Mo refused to give it to her. Mo still had the letter, but threw it away when they returned from their day out. Pat still thinks her brother died hating her...Gungadin 22:57, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

I have a suggestion. Make one article for each spin-off. Then create a category called "EastEnders spin-offs" and include Dimensions in Time with them. AnemoneProjectors (talk) 15:37, 17 June 2006 (UTC)
I think we chould have one article, like EastEnders off set episodes, seeing as we don't have separate articles for any other episodes. Trampikey 17:47, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
Well do it as one for now, and I'll split it later ;) AnemoneProjectors (talk) 19:18, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
It doesn't need to be split. Trampikey 20:08, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
It hasn't even been created yet ;) AnemoneProjectors (talk) 21:16, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

Quotes in articles

Am I the only one who doesn't like them? Trampikey 19:55, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

A few quotes are good but not loads. We should use Wikiquote when there's a lot of quotes for a character. AnemoneProjectors (talk) 20:02, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

I dont like them either. From what Ive read, most of them seem pointless, I think they are only useful if the caracter has cathphrase sayings. Like Dot and 'Oh I say!!' and Peggy 'I'm a Mitchell' Gungadin 21:11, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

I like Honey Edwards' quotes the best. They should stay. AnemoneProjectors (talk) 15:38, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

"History", "Biography" or "____'s story"?

I think it needs to be a constant, so do we have "History" (like Billy Jackson, "Biography" (like Courtney Mitchell), or "____'s story" (like Kelvin Carpenter)? (There's also "Description" on Zoe Slater, but that needs to change, so I'll put it as "History" for now.)

I think "History" is the best. Trampikey 20:10, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

For short articles, I don't think sections are necessary at all. I think "History" is best. I believe there's also "Life in Walford". Other articles like Den Watts and Ian Beale are fine as they are. AnemoneProjectors (talk) 20:21, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

I use history in most now, but for those whose backgound is extensive I add that as a title first, and if there is any obvious divisions (or chunks) in storylines, then I separate them with titles. I think the Ian Beale article needs redoing. It doesnt give any information on what he's done in between his relationships and having children. The sections on the kids seems silly too, as most of it is already mentioned in the relationship section. The bits that arent could just be moved to there Gungadin 21:26, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

Plus, all the information in the children's section is provided in the children's own articles. Trampikey 22:40, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

Two new WikiProject-related articles

You may have noticed this at the top of this page;
Project log
To do list

Please check out these new pages! Trampikey 16:16, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

The to do list can be displayed as a template actually, using {{Wikipedia:WikiProject EastEnders/To do}}. Perhaps it could be displayed that way on the main WP:WPEE page. You can put it on your userpage too as that's always easy to find :) AnemoneProjectors (talk) 16:51, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

Key articles for Wikipedia 1.0

Hello! We at the Work via WikiProjects team for Wikipedia 1.0 would like you to identify the "key articles" from your project that should be included in offline releases of Wikipedia based on their importance, regardless of quality. We will use that information to assess which articles should be nominated for Version 1.0 (not yet open) and later versions. Hopefully it will also help you identify which articles are the most important for the project to work on. As well, please add to your Arts WikiProject article table any articles of quality articles|high quality]]. If you are interested in developing a worklist such as this one for your WikiProject, or having a bot generate a worklist automatically for you, please contact us. Please feel free to post your suggestions right here. Thanks! Walkerma 06:01, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

Well, definite ones are; EastEnders and List of characters from EastEnders.
Others could include Pauline Fowler, Ian Beale, Peggy Mitchell, Phil Mitchell, Grant Mitchell (EastEnders), Sharon Rickman, Den Watts etc.
Any other suggestions? Should we include character pages? Trampikey 11:57, 17 June 2006 (UTC)
My suggestions are EastEnders, Storylines of EastEnders, Christmas in EastEnders, The Queen Vic, Walford and Albert Square. If we include characters, my suggestions would include Pauline Fowler, Peggy Mitchell, Pat Evans, Den Watts, Ian Beale, Kathy Hills, Kat Moon, Grant Mitchell (EastEnders), Phil Mitchell, Sonia Fowler, Frank Butcher and many more... I'm trying to think of which characters people would automatically think of when you say "EastEnders"... but there's so many. AnemoneProjectors (talk) 15:35, 17 June 2006 (UTC)
Dot Branning, Angie Watts, Dennis Rickman, Alfie Moon, Jim Branning, Roy Evans (EastEnders), Ethel Skinner Trampikey 16:06, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

Thanks a lot! Not much time tonight, but I'll try to update your table later this week, based on your comments here and below. Early releases will be very limited in size, but I hope that later ones can include major characters if the article quality is good. Are any of your top-importance articles pf A-Class quality, do you think? Thanks, Walkerma 07:18, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

Vote for 1.0 articles here

Yes - Trampikey
Yes - Main EastEnders article. AnemoneProjectors (talk)
Yes Gungadin 23:54, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
Maybe - the list is ever-changing, and it might not be ideal for WP 1.0 - Trampikey
Not sure - I agree it might not be ideal. AnemoneProjectors (talk)
Yes - Trampikey
Yes - AnemoneProjectors (talk)
Yes - Trampikey
Yes - AnemoneProjectors (talk)
Maybe - is it really that notable? - Trampikey
Yes - Main location for the series. AnemoneProjectors (talk)
Yes Gungadin 23:54, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
Yes - Trampikey
Yes - AnemoneProjectors (talk)
Yes - Trampikey
Yes - AnemoneProjectors (talk)

Character pages

Proposed:

Should we include character pages in WP 1.0? If so, which ones? Please specify in your vote!

Yes, we should, but only really notable ones, I think the 21 articles above would suffice, possibly Pete Beale also. Not too sure about Roy Evans anymore either... - Trampikey
Yes to most - I wouldn't include Roy or Billy, but I would also like to add Bianca Jackson and Martin Fowler (EastEnders) to the list. It's difficult to pick the most "important" characters! AnemoneProjectors (talk) 20:14, 17 June 2006 (UTC)
Yes to most too , I am also not sure about Roy or Billy, or Jim Branning. Perhaps Michelle, Mark and Arthur Fowler should be included, as they were the first family of the soap and were featured quite a lot for the first 20 years. Perhaps Lou Beale too, as I gather from reading that article that she was allegedly the basis behind the whole idea of the soap. Oh and Tiffany too!!! Gungadin 23:34, 17 June 2006 (UTC)
Thanks for your listing. I've put the non-character articles into your table. Please can you add in assessments, as well as any character articles you want to include. Also, congratulations on your main article making GA. Thanks, Walkerma 06:29, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

Updating articles

I think for a while we should stop creating new articles, and work on updating the ones we have with recent storylines. I think we're a bit behind on that in some cases. AnemoneProjectors (talk) 15:55, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

Especially the Storylines of EastEnders#2006 section Trampikey 15:58, 17 June 2006 (UTC)
I've updated Pauline Fowler, Dot Branning, Ian Beale, Jim Branning and Billy Mitchell (EastEnders) Trampikey 20:55, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

ive update Carly Wicks and Kevin Wicks Gungadin 18:32, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

EastEnders nominated as a Good Article

By me... just thought I'd let you all know! Trampikey 20:47, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

I noticed. Will be interesting to see what people think. AnemoneProjectors (talk) 16:44, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

The "History", "Biography", "____'s story" issue- revisited!

Please vote on which heading would be most appropriate here, just put which one you think is best! Trampikey 20:58, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

"History" Trampikey 20:58, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

My vote is for "____'s story". AnemoneProjectors (talk) 22:18, 17 June 2006 (UTC)
History I suppose, I think it sounds more adult. Although In the past Ive only used the title history when I cant think of any other title to use. This usually happens when the character is boring, like Mick McFarlane (the most boring EE character ever!! i nearly bored myself to tears writing that article). Recently Ive been using the title Background for those who have an extensive background before the show, like Ashraf Karim. Should I use the title History for these characters instead now? Gungadin 00:15, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

A-Class articles

Hey guys have you seen above that they want us to select A-class articles from our list of proposed articles from wikipedia 1? which out of those from the list do you think is A class? I'll have to read them all but I think Sharon Rickman is very good, although perhaps more needs to be said about her early history. Its a bit 2005 heavy. Gungadin 23:58, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

""____"" or "'____'"?

We need a CONSTANT. We have 'Big' Ron and Rick 'Minty' Peterson, but "Uncle" (EastEnders)... and in the articles there are sometimes differeces (ie Philip "Phil" Mitchell ,and Margaret 'Peggy' Mitchell)

So which do we use?

" or ' ?

(Also, see below)

Trampikey 17:26, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

I think "_" is more standard on Wikipedia. ^_^ AnemoneProjectors (talk) 18:18, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

I think there's a rule, but im not too sure of it. from this article it says that double quotations are for direct quotes and single are for quotes within quotes [1] not really sure how this would relate to nicknames though. When im writing my Uni stuff I always put double for long quotes and single when I just want to emphasize a word, but this is probably wrong.

this article says to use double for nicknames [2] Gungadin 18:38, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

Minty and SJ

Rick 'Minty' Peterson, Rick "Minty" Peterson or Minty Peterson?

and

Sarah-Jane Fletcher, SJ Fletcher, Sarah-Jane 'SJ' Fletcher or Sarah-Jane "SJ" Fletcher?

Trampikey 17:35, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

Minty Peterson and SJ Fletcher because of Little Mo Mitchell and every other article on Wikipedia which uses the name a person is best known by rather than their real or full name. There's something written about it somewhere on Wikipedia but I can't find it. AnemoneProjectors (talk) 18:05, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

Yeh I agree, I think the real names can just be put in the article, I should imagine that most people will just look for Minty instead of Rick when they're trying to find his page Gungadin 18:47, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

What about Nana Moon? AnemoneProjectors (talk) 19:43, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

Character infobox

Do you think it is possible that we can add "home" to the infobox? Between Marital status and Occupation? Trampikey 20:32, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

It was an idea I had a long time ago but at the time without optional parameters, it would have broken every single infobox, which is why I never did it. Anything is possible now. AnemoneProjectors (talk) 21:33, 25 June 2006 (UTC)
I've added "Home" (which can be inserted under Martial Status by typing "home=") and Date of death (which can be inserted under Date of birth by typing "dod=") Trampikey 22:17, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

Nellie Ellis

Does anyone know what the source for Nellie being Authur's aunt is. Ive just read in a book that she's Lou's relative. so she must be pauline's aunt. Although she's not actually Lou's sister.

It says "character who made her debut at Pete Beale's funeral in Dec 93, returned to the show for a longer run in 94. Auntie Nellie, a relative of Lou's, came to live with the Fowlers....". Gungadin 21:34, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

[3] lists her as a relative of Arthur, and as she was always known as "Auntie Nellie", I deducted that she is his aunt... Trampikey 23:02, 29 June 2006 (UTC)


As well as the book i've found this from the episode descriptions on Walford.net [4] [5] , which confirms that she is a relative on Pauline's side. Apparently her second cousin once removed Gungadin 11:31, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

Minor EE characters

I think it's fair to ask this to all members of the WikiProject. Who thinks we should create a page called List of minor characters in EastEnders and merge all the minor characters who currently have their own articles into it? For example, those who only appeared in a handful of episodes or those whose articles contain only one paragraph. -- AnemoneProjectors (talk) 19:10, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

I VERY strongly oppose this article. It was scrapped before because of my reasons, which I think are fair. I don't care if you have the backing of Gungadin on this one, Petie, because I will fight the creation of this article in any way I can without being blocked. I am very passionate about this WikiProject, and hate the scrappy look of other TV shows when they have "minor character" pages, i.e. The Simpsons, whenever I look for info on a certain character, it redirects to a long list of minor characters, which looks awful. Trampikey (talk to me)(contribs) 19:16, 2 July 2006 (UTC)
Trampikey, you obviously feel very strongly about this so once again I'm willing to scrap the idea. I only brought it back up because another user had discussed the idea elsewhere. Sorry for any distress caused. -- AnemoneProjectors (talk) 19:27, 2 July 2006 (UTC)
Thank you, Petie. I obviously underestimated you, and would like to make a full apology for my harsh comments about you earlier. What you get up to in your own time is your business... I hope we can continue to work on this project in harmony together for a long time to come. Trampikey (talk to me)(contribs) 19:30, 2 July 2006 (UTC)
Don't worry about it. I know we haven't always seen eye-to-eye on things but for the sake of this WikiProject and Wikipedia, I too hope we can continue to work together. Now let's all have a big group Wikipedia:WikiHug :) -- AnemoneProjectors (talk) 19:37, 2 July 2006 (UTC)
Im glad everyone is friends again and I also think its best to leave things as they are if changing it is going to cause problems. Shirl xxx Gungadin 20:02, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

EastEnders by decade (1980s)

Shouldn't this be EastEnders storylines by decade, given that Storylines of EastEnders now redirects to one of these articles? Unless the articles are planning to include other items? (e.g. factual information such as production team) Stephenb (Talk) 16:09, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, what was the point in splitting the storylines page? It was fine as it was, and I'd prefer for all the births, marriages and deaths to be together... Anyone else agree? Trampikey (talk to me)(contribs) 18:11, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

Also, the main article links to it, and we've put it up for Wikipedia 1.0, so it should be all together, not in separate articles. As it wasn't discussed I'm going to revert it for now- discussion can happen here, I think that's fair don't you? Trampikey (talk to me)(contribs) 18:16, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

If it is split, it should be EastEnders storylines by decade (1980s) or maybe EastEnders storylines of the 1980s or something like that. I like the births, deaths and marriages list all in one place, but this article will only get longer and longer and eventually should be split, so the BMD list will probably have to be as well. -- AnemoneProjectors (talk) 19:40, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
Category:EastEnders by decade has also been created. I believe the articles, if split, should be put directly in Category:EastEnders storylines as another subcategory is not necessary. -- AnemoneProjectors (talk) 19:48, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

Stephenb, I agree with you on that and was tempted but seemed a little messy. Trampikey, I perhaps made a mistake in making changes before discussing it but then so have you - simply deleting everything before discussing it. You could have kept the seperates and just reinstated Storylines by EastEnders until a decision is made.

It makes sense to spilt the page up, it is already longer than advised - and will get even longer by 2010 and then on. You only have to look at the 'summary' of 2006, it's becoming much more detailed than previous years. It completly puts people off having to trawl through pages of text, with the long contents stretching the page. As does lists of Births, deaths and marriages. They are hardly what constitutes as core encyclopedic information.

Everyone say for sure what they think before any more moving is done, but in the long term something needs to be done about its presentation and size.

Take care, EastEnders the great 19:54, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

Well what I think should be done is this: split the article, make the titles clearer, and leave them in the EastEnders storylines category. -- AnemoneProjectors (talk) 20:00, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
I think it should definitely be split, it allows for expansion of the articles. Gungadin 20:33, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
I reverted back to the original because there was no discussion... having a disucssion about doing something without a discussion is pointless... I think we should leave it as it is, as Storylines of EastEnders, at least until Wikipedia 1.0... as it is one of our listed articles... Trampikey (talk to me)(contribs) 20:35, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
You were right to revert it. And you make a good point about Wikipedia 1.0. -- AnemoneProjectors (talk) 20:49, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
I agree it was right to revert it until sufficient discussion had come to a consensus. However, I can see the benefit of eventually splitting the article up, Wikipedia 1.0 notwithstanding Stephenb (Talk) 09:32, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
I was going to agree about Wikipedia 1.0, but now disagree after sleeping on it. Storylines of EastEnders changes all the time because storylines are continually progressing. Actually don't you think that splitting it into 80s and 90s would be more viable for Wikipedia 1.0, because the major storylines have been and gone.
I am not bothered either way as I don't have to read about the storylines :P, but for those that do, I think splitting it up would be more beneficial in its readability.
Take care, EastEnders the great 16:15, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

Please remember!

To add all new articles (about anything EE related- including articles about EE actors) to Wikipedia:WikiProject EastEnders/Project log. Thanks Trampikey (talk to me)(contribs) 18:38, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

Image

Why was the Albert Square image removed from the top of the project page? Trampikey (talk to me)(contribs) 14:48, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

I understand now- I've replaced it :) Trampikey (talk to me)(contribs) 17:02, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

Images on main article

Please make sure, if you carry out task number 9, that all images added have correct licensing on them, or the article could lose it's good article status! Trampikey (talk to me)(contribs) 17:02, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

New GA nominees!

I've nominated Sharon Rickman and Peggy Mitchell as good articles. Just to let you know! Trampikey (talk to me)(contribs) 17:12, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

Peggy failed...Trampikey (talk to me)(contribs) 18:45, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

Citing sources

Very few of our character pages cite any sources. I believe some of you are getting information from books about EastEnders. When you write an article, please can you remember to cite your source of information in a references section at the bottom of the article. This is extremely important. Thanks. -- AnemoneProjectors (talk) 09:26, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

Simon Wicks

Should we change his dad to Brian Wicks? The only thing to suggest it is Kenny Beale is the fact that he is now living with him in New Zealand... all other storylines point to him being a true Wicks... of course, the Beale/Fowler family tree will have to be changed, as will all "Family" sections on anyone related to Kenny but not Simon... what do you think?

Yes, we should! I remember Pat mentioning Simon going to NZ, but not why - and the most definitive time Pat ever mentioned Simon's father was when Brian Wicks (as played by Leslie Schofield) actually turned up. I actually nearly posted the same thing as you last weekend! Stephenb (Talk) 16:30, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
And also, two of the books (Who's Who and 20 years) both back this up... I'll start now! Trampikey (talk to me)(contribs) 16:32, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
Yeh I think so too. When Kenny came back he began to bond with Simon, so even though Pat later admitted that they weren't blood related, perhaps he went to live with him because they got on so well in Walford. When Kenny left, he said to simon 'I dunno whether you are my son of course, but now that i've met you, I certainly hope so'
When Pat was finally going to reveal who the father was, Simon asked whether it was Pete or Kenny, Pat responded that it was neither, Simon then deduced it was Den (he wanted it to be him I think), Pat then also ruled him out. Pat then went on about her affairs while married to Pete, that there were many, Kenny, Frank, Den....Brian. Simon was shocked to find out that she knew Brian back then, Pat said she did and that it was he who was his father. Simon called Pat a cow and stormed out, he went to visit Brian off-screen to talk to him and returned to say that he wanted nothing more to do with him.
I don't think the issue was carried on further after this, but i might be wrong... Gungadin 16:55, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

Awww crap! I've been removing Simon from the fmaily sections- but I forgot about Steven! Damn! Trampikey (talk to me)(contribs) 16:57, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

I'd noticed. I've done a couple of them (including removing Simon from Elizabeth Beale), but I'm off home now (sorry) :-) Stephenb (Talk) 17:02, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
It's all done, as far as I can see! Trampikey (talk to me)(contribs) 17:50, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
Question: before I update the family tree on the Beale/Fowler family with this new information, does anything else need to be changed on it (other than Martin and Sonia's divorce)? -- AnemoneProjectors (talk) 18:08, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
Didn't Conor Flaherty and Ruth Fowler have a baby together? You could add that perhaps. Not sure if its got a name tho. Gungadin 18:18, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
It was never seen or heard of- we don't even know if the baby was ever born- to have "baby" on the family tree would look bad. Eamonn, Conor and John have a brother called Tommy, and Colette and Eamonn Jr. have a sister named Kylie. Trampikey (talk to me)(contribs) 18:30, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
John and Kylie are already added. Ruth's baby might have never been born, we just don't know. No point adding it. Any divorces I might have missed? And am I right in thinking I just need to remove Simon and Steven from the tree? -- AnemoneProjectors (talk) 18:36, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
Yeah, they need to be removed! Trampikey (talk to me)(contribs) 18:44, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
Well I'm all ready to upload the new tree... erm, are Ricky and Bianca divorced? By the way, I've also already done trees for the Branning/Jackson, Mitchell and Slater families for when they're needed. -- AnemoneProjectors (talk) 18:49, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

Should we have a box?

Like this one?: {{OCnavigation}} Trampikey (talk to me)(contribs) 22:13, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

We could, but:
  1. What information would we include in it?
  2. Which articles would we add it to?
-- AnemoneProjectors (talk) 22:20, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
I dunno... I shall think about it and get back to you! Trampikey (talk to me)(contribs) 22:25, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
A bit difficult to put character pages on, but we could put all the main articles that are listed in the "see also" section of the main EastEnders article... -- AnemoneProjectors (talk) 22:36, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
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