Wikipedia talk:WikiProject EastEnders/List of births, marriages and deaths in EastEnders

Source

Not sure if this is of any use to you, but I thought I'd drop it off nontheless :)

• "EastEnders 25th anniversary feature – births, deaths and marriages". BBC Online. 28 January 2010. Retrieved 28 January 2010. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Frickative (talk • contribs)

Very interesting. However, this article was previously AFDed so I don't think it's going to be recreated - it's just here for reference. Maybe it should be moved to the Project space as a subpage of WP:EASTENDERS. AnemoneProjectors (talk) 16:35, 28 January 2010 (UTC)

They've updated that page now, I'm convinced they've copied a lot of this wiki! AnemoneProjectors (talk) 18:37, 2 February 2010 (UTC)

You shouldn't really be accepting new additions without sources.Rain the 1 13:33, 23 March 2012 (UTC)

Do we need sources? In fact do we need this page? Do we need it for reference? It's not part of the encyclopaedia but our project for reference. If we do want it, why? 14:05, 23 March 2012 (UTC)

I just assumed it would be moved out into the mainspace one day. I do not see any harm in these lists and with other series having one (that are quite well sourced) - I can only imagine that one day it'll be moved into the mainspace - or recreated if this is deleted. These type of lists are pretty common in encyclopedias.Rain the 1 14:12, 23 March 2012 (UTC)

It was deleted from the mainspace because it was in-universe, trivial and unencyclopaedic. I don't know if adding sources would change that. I've always thought this should apply to other series as well. See Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of births, marriages and deaths in EastEnders. But I won't protest against re-creation if it's sourced first. –anemoneprojectors– 14:28, 23 March 2012 (UTC)

Maybe they're useful to some people - I know this page gets over 1000-2000 monthly views without it being in the mainspace - I would imagine a majorety come from google searches?Rain the 1 14:40, 23 March 2012 (UTC)

That's a good point. Perhaps we should work on it and then get it moved. I think we should put in full dates where known, making sure they are broadcast dates. –anemoneprojectors– 14:48, 23 March 2012 (UTC)

Just stumbled across this, I'd definitely be up for helping get the full dates for the births and marriages, I know the list for Coronation Street is quite a decent article, and I find this a very useful/interesting page. Alex250P (talk) 18:45, 16 June 2012 (UTC)

Pat's death

I'm not so sure that Pat died of pancreatic cancer. You obviously must have seen Pat have a heart attack after arguing with David and afterwards went downhill and eventually passed away. I'm just wondering, did Pat technically die of that heart attack, or did the heart attack further the complications of her cancer? Boushenheiser (talk) 08:32, 5 April 2013 (UTC)

She died in this scene where it seems like it was due to cancer, also sources such as this say it was (or would be) cancer. –anemoneprojectors– 10:21, 6 April 2013 (UTC)

Also her article has a citation needed next to the heart attack, so it probably wasn't that obvious that she'd had one. But if reliable sources say it was cancer that killed her, we should put that. But the heart attack probably didn't help. Maybe she wouldn't have had one if she wasn't in ill health already. –anemoneprojectors– 10:25, 6 April 2013 (UTC)

Where are the surnames?

Dean Wicks was killed by Mick Carter. However, I found out about their surnames being missing. So edit it and I'll check it the next morning. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.191.251.102 (talk) 16:18, 1 March 2015 (UTC)

Are you sure that's right?! –anemoneprojectors– 15:11, 2 September 2015 (UTC)

Natasha Butcher

She can't have died in a later episode than her birth as she died before being born. Which date is correct? –anemoneprojectors– 15:11, 2 September 2015 (UTC)

Causes of death

It isn't good enough to just say someone died from "suicide". I want to know details of exactly how they died, because there are many ways to kill yourself. I also want to know, if someone was killed by another person, who that person was. Also, you don't die from a house fire, you die from blast injuries, and a car is not the same as a lorry. This isn't a Wikipedia article, but even if it was, I think we should keep the details in, because it's not a list of causes of death listed on death certificates, it's a list of fictional deaths in a soap opera. So even Ronnie's wedding dress and the fact that Paul was killed in a homophobic attack should remain. Because I, and probably many others, want to know exactly what caused these deaths. anemoneprojectors 09:17, 16 April 2017 (UTC)

Full article

Why do Corrie, Emmerdale and Hollyoaks all have their lists of births, marriages and deaths as full articles but this is a Wikiproject one? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.136.73.102 (talk) 11:17, 22 July 2017 (UTC)

Because of Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of births, marriages and deaths in EastEnders. — anemoneprojectors 12:42, 19 August 2017 (UTC)

Belle Taylor

If we can keep Natasha Butcher up who was just an abortion with a name, we can keep Belle up. Arjoccolenty (talk) 17:55, 18 September 2017 (UTC)

Miscarriages aren't counted, but had Natasha died naturally at the same time, it would have been a stillbirth, which does count. So yes to Natasha but no to Belle. — anemoneprojectors 08:42, 12 October 2017 (UTC)

Where was it agreed that stillbirths count? I can't see any discussion so it seems you have just decided that yourself. IMO, Natasha, Vivienne and Zaair should not be included. 86.136.76.190 (talk) 12:56, 18 November 2017 (UTC)

Stillbirths are registered in the same was as births, miscarriages are not, which is why we list stillbirths but not miscarriages. — ᴀnemoneᴘroᴊecтors 15:24, 16 December 2017 (UTC)

Off-screen events

Why are characters like Mark, Arjun, Freddie and Denny's births included in the births section when they didn't happen on screen? Their mothers weren't in the show when they were born. Was this discussed and a consensus reached?

By this logic, we could include the births of Donna Yates, Spencer Moon, Sonia Jackson, Kush Kazemi, Nicky di Marco, Shabnam Masood, Chelsea Fox, Bradley Branning, Billie Jackson, Ruby Allen, Stacey Slater, Danielle Jones, Danny Mitchell, Tamwar Masood, Libby Fox, Lee Carter, Dexter Hartman, Whitney Dean, Nancy Carter, Lauren Branning, Johnny Carter, Sarah/Kyle Slater, Jay Brown, Paul Coker, Abi Branning, Lola Pearce, Keanu Taylor, Shakil Kazemi, Keegan Baker, Madison Drake, Tiffany Dean and Morgan Jackson-King - all of whom were born off-screen since the show began in February 1985.

Similarly, Kim and Vincent's off-screen marriage should not be included. Same goes for Colin Russell and Eddie Tsang.

For deaths - Pete Beale, Rose Chapman, Cindy Beale, Reenie Branning, Harry Slater, Angie Watts, Rosa di Marco, Geoff Morton, Mark Fowler, Neil and Sue Miller, Felix Kawalski, Cedric Lucas, Frank Butcher, Jack Edwards, Siobhan, Tony King, Carol Hanley, Jim Branning, Joel and Stephanie Reynolds were all past characters when they died. They didn't die on screen so shouldn't be included. Eddie Kendall and Tony Palmer didn't even appear in the first place - they weren't characters at all - but are included for some reason. There was an old man who died c.2004 - I think his name was Jack - who Sonia arranged a funeral for, but he's not included. Also I don't think abortions/miscarriages/stillbirths should be included here.

It seems a lot of decisions about what should be included have been made by one or two people with no discussion. I'd feel a lot more comfortable if this was discussed and a consensus reached, rather than one or two certain editors having complete dominion over the page. 86.136.76.190 (talk) 13:31, 18 November 2017 (UTC)

The births of Donna Yates, Spencer Moon, Sonia Jackson, Kush Kazemi, Nicky di Marco, Shabnam Masood, Chelsea Fox, Bradley Branning, Billie Jackson, Ruby Allen, Stacey Slater, Danielle Jones, Danny Mitchell, Tamwar Masood, Libby Fox, Lee Carter, Dexter Hartman, Whitney Dean, Nancy Carter, Lauren Branning, Johnny Carter, Kyle Slater, Jay Brown, Paul Coker, Abi Branning, Lola Pearce, Keanu Taylor, Shakil Kazemi, Keegan Baker, Madison Drake, Tiffany Dean and Morgan Jackson-King were not referenced on screen, while the births of Mark, Arjun, Freddie and Dennis were. Same as the marriages and deaths you mentioned. Miscarriages and stillbirths are being discussed in the section above this.

I would also like to point out that this is not a Wikipedia article but a reference guide for members of WikiProject EastEnders. — ᴀnemoneᴘroᴊecтors 15:28, 16 December 2017 (UTC)

Civil partnerships

Could we not change the section to be "Marriages and civil partnerships" to include Saul and Nathan and Christian and Syed? 86.136.76.190 (talk) 13:31, 18 November 2017 (UTC)

Perhaps though civil partnerships could be listed in a separate section. The page would need to be renamed to Wikipedia:WikiProject EastEnders/List of births, marriages, civil partnerships and deaths in EastEnders. — ᴀnemoneᴘroᴊecтors 15:31, 16 December 2017 (UTC)

Abi Branning's brain death

Abi Branning was announced brain dead but was removed recently, although on the death in the same page in hollyoaks Neeta Kaur is there in the same way. Please somebody add Abi cuz I'm too scared I'll mess something up Laxowax14 (talk) 20:25, 29 December 2017 (UTC)

With brain stem death, legally Abi’s date of death would be Christmas Day 2017, not whenever they turn off her ventilator. Do some research, Wikipedia Hitlers! 86.136.74.41 (talk) 09:54, 30 December 2017 (UTC)

Wrong dates

• Did Vincent and Kim actual get married on 23 February 2014 as I thought they got married on a cruise? Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 19:16, 8 April 2018 (UTC)
• Grant Mitchell and Tiffany Raymond marriage, 15 November 1996 (no sign of that date on User:AnemoneProjectors/List of EastEnders episodes. Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 18:15, 13 April 2018 (UTC)

As it's the episode date, Vincent and Kim may be the episode it was mentioned. Grant and Tiffany must be wrong if there was no episode that day. — ᴀnemoneᴘroᴊecтors 11:49, 6 May 2018 (UTC)

Deaths

An anonymous user has just re-added off-screen deaths to this list, and put as an edit summary 'don't remove off-screen deaths or this will result in a ban from editing'. It was agreed that off-screen deaths should be removed. I have removed them twice and I am fed up of having to keep removing them. Is it possible that if they are removed again, that we get the page protected, as this list looks odd with off-screen deaths as they didn't feature in the show. It would be greatly appreciated if someone could get back to me ASAP. Thanks. User321a (talk) 20:39, 16 August 2018 (UTC)

That's an IP sockpuppet belonging to User:Slatercj01. Just revert, warn/report. You can request page protection at WP:RFPP. - JuneGloom07 Talk 00:10, 17 August 2018 (UTC)

Thanks, but how do I warn an IP user? User321a (talk) 10:46, 17 August 2018 (UTC)

Select the most appropriate warning message from here WP:WARN, and add it to their talk page. - JuneGloom07 Talk 14:24, 17 August 2018 (UTC)

I don't recall it being agreed that off-screen deaths should be removed, and I don't believe they should be. Besides, as I keep saying, this isn't a Wikipedia article, merely a reference for Wikipedia editors. — ᴀnemoneᴘroᴊecтors 21:57, 15 September 2018 (UTC)

Plus, off-screen marriages and births are included. Also, technically, Joyce Murray died off screen, Luke Browning died off screen, Lucy Beale died off screen, Rob Grayson died off screeen, Billie Jackson died off screen, Paul Trueman died off screen and Debbie Bates died off screen. Some of them were dead when we last saw them but others were alive, having already left the show - Paul Trueman's death is no different to Fatboy's death or Angie Watts's death. Character deaths should all be included even if the character left the series 10 years previously, the bus driver should be included as though unnamed, we saw him die. The only ones I would say that potentially could be removed are Eddie Kendall and Tony. — ᴀnemoneᴘroᴊecтors 23:30, 15 September 2018 (UTC)

Also, see #Off-screen events above. — ᴀnemoneᴘroᴊecтors 23:33, 15 September 2018 (UTC)

Off-screen deaths were removed even by JuneGloom07 as it seems ridiculous to include them as they never really featured in the show. They were only killed off-screen to begin a storyline for other characters. User321a (talk) 16:18, 24 September 2018 (UTC)

@User321a: But you have to remember that this is not an article, it is simply a reference point. All of this is in-universe information. Soaper1234 - talk 16:51, 24 September 2018 (UTC)

Ok. User321a (talk) 17:57, 24 September 2018 (UTC)

We don’t know is Mel Owen is dead yet so don’t put it on the list. BossKoolaid7910 (talk) 19:18, 13 November 2019 (UTC)

Pending Changes protection

As several editors point out at various places on this Talk page, the content under discussion here is not a Wikipedia article, but rather an internal project page used to help organize the efforts of the WikiProject and its members. As such, I don't really feel Pending Changes protection is appropriate. You're asking independent editors to police modifications to your project page, even though they're not members of the project and have no context for doing so.

When reviewing mainspace articles, the Five Pillars and the general standards of Wikipedia's editorial policy are enough to guide reviewers. But on a project page like this one, those rules don't apply. It becomes an open question what rules do apply, and how a reviewer would possibly know when or how to apply them.

I just don't feel — though this is, of course, merely my personal opinion, and nothing more — that it's a very productive use of Pending Changes reviewers' time, to spend it attempting to review changes for this (internal) project page. Could there be another, less labor-intensive form of protection that might be a better fit? Thanks. -- FeRDNYC (talk) 21:18, 6 November 2018 (UTC)

@FeRDNYC: I think that's a fair point. It should either be semi-protection or no protection at all. — ᴀnemoneᴘroᴊecтors 10:49, 19 November 2018 (UTC)

Roland

Roland's biological mother is Bernie, it was her egg and Stuart's sperm 2A00:23C7:B285:5801:B0F5:82A1:C171:C2D9 (talk) 14:36, 30 June 2022 (UTC)

Mick

Mick is missing presumed dead but not legally declared dead and obviously no body found so he shouldn’t be on the list of deaths. Jake Moon isn’t counted as a death so Mick shouldn’t be. 2A00:23C7:B285:5801:3062:C546:5502:8D3A (talk) 01:49, 4 January 2023 (UTC)