Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Gaelic games/Archive 2009

This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

Cork Hurling Squad

Most of the players have technically retired. Should we put up the squad from the game against St. Colmans today as being the official Cork squad ? ManfromDelmonte (talk) 10:48, 22 November 2008 (UTC)

Hmmm maybe. ALthough I'd say come national league time it'll have to be more or less reverted back :)Derry Boi (talk) 11:22, 22 November 2008 (UTC)

Cork to play the first round of the National Hurling League tomorrow with the new squad. ManfromDelmonte (talk) 17:54, 7 February 2009 (UTC)

Looks like "the war wasn't over by Christmas" after all! :) How about noting at the start of the section that there is a dispute with the members of the 2008 squad refusing to play under McCarthy, then saying that this is the squad currently representing Cork in the NHL and listing the 2009 squad? Rather than deleting the 2008 squad we can put them after that and say that this is the 2008 championship squad who are currently refusing to play under McCarthy. Tameamseo (talk) 12:49, 10 February 2009 (UTC)

We really need a article like 2007-2008 Cork players strike Gnevin (talk) 13:59, 10 February 2009 (UTC)

Agreed. New article needed. ManfromDelmonte (talk) 21:47, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

2008-2009 Cork Hurlers strike , please help add too it Gnevin (talk) 21:48, 2 March 2009 (UTC)

An article already exists at 2008-2009 Cork players strike. They need to be merged. Tameamseo (talk) 22:22, 2 March 2009 (UTC)

Individual finals

Being roughly the cultural equivalent of the Super Bowl and FA Cup Final, shouldn't the individual All-Ireland hurling and football finals each have their own articles? Or at least the recent ones if data is difficult to come by? The general football final itself is currently a redirect and seems to have been so for a few years. --➨♀♂Candlewicke _S^T_# :) 23:48, 4 January 2009 (UTC)

I also did this a number of weeks ago but without the articles it will have no legs to stand on. --➨♀♂Candlewicke _S^T_# :) 23:55, 4 January 2009 (UTC)

Yes we should have All-Ireland Senior football final an over view and then by year same for hurling Gnevin (talk) 23:59, 4 January 2009 (UTC)

Agree we should have them, but its a pretty big job to undertake from scratch. Incidentally User:ManfromDelmonte and User:CorkMan have created articles for the past 3 All-Ireland hurling finlals and have to say they're very good articles.Derry Boi (talk) 00:48, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

i would disagree with putting every individual final up as an individual page, but only because the pages for the FA cup finals from as recently as 2000 appear obsolete, and space-wasting, just recreating a stats page. There is little overview of what happened in the match (fair enough it was a dour affair, in which case, I would argue, it should be merged with the appropriate entry for the whole competition), or give an impression as to the lead up to the match (Benito Carbone's brilliant goal for Aston Villa in the Q-Final eg). Having said that, the 2006 FA Cup Final deserves a page, since it was such a brilliant match.

May I suggest our default position is to have a detailed section of the final, with starting line-ups, match overview etc, on the page of the Championship, creating a new namespace, if the actual match merited it (obvious egs would be 2005, which was a close match, as opposed to 2006, which was a walkover)--Macca7174 _talk 19:13, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

Creating a article would be easier than changing in the news , plus we can't base articles on Pov on man's great all Ireland is a other man's 95 all Ireland ;) . Gnevin (talk) 21:05, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

Why would creating a new article necessarily be easier? If the final can be summed up by one or two lines, would it not make more sense to have those two lines on the Championship page, rather than a whole new page.

I realise the NPOV argument, but I think that consensus is agreed that certain finals were great matches (Kerry Offally 1982 anyone?), while others were dour.--Macca7174 _talk 20:07, 7 January 2009 (UTC)

On a slightly related note, should we change the article title of say All-Ireland Senior Football Championship 2008 to 2008 All-Ireland Senior Football Championship? Having the year first seems to be the norm, for example 2008 Wimbledon Championships, 2008 Ryder Cup or 2006 FIFA World Cup. Derry Boi (talk) 23:07, 25 January 2009 (UTC)

Match template

I made a match template {{GAA match}}, its basically just a copy of the {{footballbox}}, but we might as well have our own for GAA matches. Feel free to make any changes to it if you can think of any. Derry Boi (talk) 17:48, 12 January 2009 (UTC)

Is the date and time a necessity? would putting the progression of the tournament (as in National Football League round 4, Ulster Championship Preliminary Round) not save some real estate for other information - such as Man of the Match?--Macca7174 _talk 16:50, 10 February 2009 (UTC)

I added a Man of the Match entry. This template will make the All-Ireland Senior Football Championship 2009 page much tidier than previous years.--Macca7174 _talk 19:07, 11 February 2009 (UTC)

God idea, only think is how do we determine who the "official" man of the match for a given match is. I think RTÉ's motm in an All-Ireland final is generally regarded as the official motm, but in other matches RTE, BBC, newspapers etc might all come up with a different motm? Derry Boi (talk) 23:20, 11 February 2009 (UTC)

Translation required

Páirc na hÉireann is Irish Park ? Gnevin (talk) 13:49, 11 February 2009 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Oisin CLG Manchester

Their is a GAA related AFD in progress]] Gnevin (talk) 17:18, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

Tom O'Reilly of Cavan

Hi folks

I just found that Tom O'Reilly (Cavan politician) and Tom O'Reilly (footballer) were one and the same person, so I have merged the footballer to to Tom O'Reilly (Cavan politician). The article on the footballer was a rather peacock-laden copyvio of a page on Cornafean.com, so I did a bit of rewrite along the way. However the merged article still needs better sourcing and some copyediting -- does anyone have any reliable sources which could be used to improve the article?

Thanks! --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 17:33, 18 February 2009 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Joe Moran

May be of interest to project members. A proposal to delete articles on 12 of Gerald McCarthy's current version of the Cork hurling squad. Besides Moran, these are also up for deletion

Tameamseo (talk) 12:47, 2 March 2009 (UTC)

Wikipedia talk:Notability (people)

May be of interest to project members. A discussion about whether Gaelic games players meet the WP:ATHLETE notability criteria. Tameamseo (talk) 20:37, 2 March 2009 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Eoin Liston

Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Eoin Liston Gnevin (talk) 19:37, 3 March 2009 (UTC)

Mutliple gaelic games AFD's here Gnevin (talk) 19:43, 3 March 2009 (UTC)

I apologize if I nominated any true stars of the sport, but since it is an amateur sport, automatic notability is not conferred. Without reliable third-party sources for these articles, this type of misunderstanding is bound to happen again. Please add references before you post articles to show that the subject is notable. Consult some of the other sports Wikiprojects, WP:NFL, WP:Tennis, WP:MMA, WP:College football, etc. if you need.--2008Olympian^chitchat 20:11, 3 March 2009 (UTC)

This is a bloody joke with a number of people doing nothing but trying to make a name for themselves. ManfromDelmonte (talk) 21:25, 3 March 2009 (UTC)

I'm afraid that there are two things happening here. One is that an editor who appears not to have read WP:ATHLETE is AFDing articles which are clearly referenced to establish that they do meet the requirement of WP:ATHLETE that the subject has played at the highest level of the sport. This is becoming disruptive. :(

However, the other problem is that many of these articles are wholly unreferenced, so do not verifiably meet WP:ATHLETE. Additionally, as noted below, several of the articles nominated at AfD over the last few days contained huge swathes of unreferenced material, which is completely unacceptable per WP:BLP and WP:V#Burden_of_evidence. These problems are long-standing (see my comments above after an assessment drive in April last year), and while I know that this project has lots to do and too few editors to do it, I do wonder if some of this AFD drive could have been avoided if this project set out on a referencing drive. I just used catscan to generate a list of the 508 GAA articles with referencing problems, and I'd be surprised if some of the skilled editors here couldn't make a big dent in that list with a few hours of concentrated work. If that work focused initially on articles on living people, the most serious problems could be removed quite quickly. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 15:21, 4 March 2009 (UTC)

Players for deletion

Please add any further players put up for deletion here. ManfromDelmonte (talk) 02:13, 4 March 2009 (UTC)

While I have supported keeping any of these articles which are referenced to establish that they meet WP:ATHLETE, I have removed all unreferenced material from these articles per WP:BLP and WP:V#Burden_of_evidence. Before reinstating any unreferenced material, please read WP:BLP and WP:V#Burden_of_evidence. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 15:01, 4 March 2009 (UTC)

We seem to have cites on all of the AfD articles listed here. Are there any more? --Eamonnca1 (talk) 22:27, 4 March 2009 (UTC)

I've gotten them all, however [1] are still at risk and we need to focus on these. If we all do 5 a day it will take no time. I am currently tagging 1,000 articles as belonging to WP:GAA so may have time on Friday to start this list Gnevin (talk) 22:29, 4 March 2009 (UTC)

Wow! That Catscan's a cool tool! How many cites do we need on each article? I've just been adding 1 to the ones I've done. --Eamonnca1 (talk) 23:04, 4 March 2009 (UTC)

I'd suggest as many as you can but 2-3 as a minimum. Most of these players are very notable , 2-3 has quite easy to find for the above Gnevin (talk) 23:05, 4 March 2009 (UTC)

Good work, yeah if we all do 5 a day we'll make it no bother. Derry Boi (talk) 10:32, 5 March 2009 (UTC)

I'm afraid it's worst than we thought , we've over 1,000 articles need references but lets not focus of the size and start chipping at at it [2] Gnevin (talk) 10:41, 5 March 2009 (UTC)

Any referencing of articles is good news, but in terms of avoiding AFDs, it might perhaps be best to focus on articles on living people (inadequately referenced BLP articles are a more serious nono than any other sort). If it helps, here are a few catscan-generated lists:

290 wholly unreferenced hurlers
- of which there are 52 wholly unreferenced articles on living hurlers
91 wholly unreferenced gaelic footballers
- of which there are only 4 wholly unreferenced articles on living gaelic footballers

There are two ways of approaching the referencing. One reference to demonstrate that the subject meets WP:ATHLETE (played at highest level of the sport) should be enough to fend off deletion ... but more references are usually needed to cover all the major points in the article, and these are particularly important for any value-judgements on a player ("disappointing season", "criticised for poor performance"), etc. If an article only has one ref added, but still needs other references, it's best not to simply remove the {{unreferenced}} tag, but to replace it with {{refimprove}}. That way the artcles can still be found by anyone wanting to focus on more detailed referencing.

Hope this helps. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 00:38, 6 March 2009 (UTC)

Useful links

Add some link you find useful here Gnevin (talk) 23:00, 5 March 2009 (UTC)

Hogan Stand's website has had an impressive new overhaul. It has up to date NFL/NHL scores and tables, as well as Top Scorers from the Championships back to 2001.--Macca7174 _talk 18:41, 24 March 2009 (UTC)

[3] THis is quite handy.--Macca7174 _talk 13:22, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

Required links

Anyone got a link to All-Ireland winners and the players on the panel at the time? Gnevin (talk) 00:30, 11 March 2009 (UTC)

Nah I've been looking for something similar myself, without much success. Let me know if you find anything. Derry Boi (talk) 17:05, 12 March 2009 (UTC)

Infobox Template - Colleges Level

I'm after adding a new section on the Player template to show which colleges, players have played with if indeed they have played at this level. Also included a titles section with numbers of Fitzgibbon / Sigerson Cups won. Let me know what you think guys. Example: Dave Bennett (hurler). ManfromDelmonte (talk) 13:30, 7 March 2009 (UTC)

Looks great, don't forget the dual players box Gnevin (talk) 19:22, 9 March 2009 (UTC)

May I suggest a different approach, thus:

           -Colleges-
   Years           Institution              titles      
   1999-2001          UCC               3 {Fitzgibbon Cup(s)}    
   2002               WIT               1 {Fitzgibbon Cup(s)}

It will save space, and not give the titles more prominence than they are due. Also, nobody is going to be able to find the appearances and scores for the colleges games, the IC Championships are difficult enough to find. I am going to try to fix up some of these accordingly (although I am proving pretty shit at editing infoboxes). (I also move that a similar adjustment be made to the club partition as well)--Macca7174 _talk 19:08, 24 March 2009 (UTC)

Seems if you add college details, the Fitzgibbon field shows regardless of whether player is a hurler or a football, and reagrdless of whether or not there is a value in the field. Doesn't seem to be the same problem for Sigerson. (See James Kielt] to see what I mean. Anyone know how to fix this? Derry Boi (talk) 22:04, 25 May 2009 (UTC)

Deletion debate on categories of Winners of multiple GAA medals

I have nominated for deletion two sparsely-populated categories whose usefulness seems low.

See Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2009 March 9#Winners_of_multiple_GAA_medals. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 06:35, 9 March 2009 (UTC)

Category:Gaelic Athletic Association clubs in America

See Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2009_March_20#Category:Gaelic_Athletic_Association_clubs_in_America for a proposal to rename this category. I think some expert input is needed! --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 22:02, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for the heads up. Left a comment on the discussion page. Derry Boi (talk) 22:22, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

Lory Meagher Cup

I have just added the Lory Meagher Cup article. I have also added some templates for it and modified the main GAA templates to include it.

--Gael-wh (talk) 16:18, 31 March 2009 (UTC)

The Irish Times

Just to tell everyone that the Irish Times archive is free to use up until Sunday. This is a very good opportunity to get information pre 1998 or so where the Irish Indo and Examiner archives end.

I've used it for match reports etc already and its excellent. ManfromDelmonte (talk) 21:08, 31 March 2009 (UTC)

Template clean up

Templates colours

I'm going to do a run and standardise the templates . Should the the colours be like

The Antrim one is wiki standard

or like the gaa bodies ?

Gnevin (talk) 21:35, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

Coloured by county

What do you think of

template in the county colours . I for one don't like them Gnevin (talk) 22:04, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

I see what you're saying. For a start, I much prefer the greenish tint of the 2nd template to the darker bluish/navy of the first one. As for seperate colours used on county templates. Do you propose also changing all team templates for All-Ireland winning teams ? In this case I'd be against as different colouring help difrentiate between different classes of template. ManfromDelmonte (talk) 23:40, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

I forgot about the All-Ireland ones, I think they should change too the ones here are terrible hard on the eyes Gnevin (talk) 23:47, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

I prefer the second colour as well. Although I think having the All-Ireland winning team templates in the county colours is a good idea personally. Derry Boi (talk) 09:04, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

What if we have a secondary colour for county stuff , so it would stand out such as User:Gnevin/sandbox7 instead of the green and yellow ? Gnevin (talk) 13:39, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

Personally I still prefer just having the county colours, similar to what they do in soccer (e.g.). Although I'm not that bothered, if there's consenus for a consistent colour I'll go along with it. Derry Boi (talk) 20:14, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

Hurling managers

I'm going to TFD template like

with 1 or 2 links ,unless their is a good reason to keep them Gnevin (talk) 22:04, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

Yeah I've no objection to ones like that being deleted. Unless they are expanded it gives the impression Kildare first got a manager in 2001. Derry Boi (talk) 09:04, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

Article alerts

I have just edited the project's main page to subscribe the project to a handy feature which I only just heard about, called Article alerts. Once they are generated by a bot (which may take a few days), the alerts will appear in a subpage called Wikipedia:WikiProject Gaelic games/Article alerts. We should all watch this page

By default they are also transcluded into the project's main page, but this can be turned off by changing a parameter in the a {{ArticleAlertbotSubscription}} template. It's currently display=columns, but display can be turned off changing this to display=none Gnevin (talk) 22:24, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

AFD

30 Apr 2009 – Malin GAA (talk) nominated for deletion by Wuhwuzdat; see discussion.
30 Apr 2009 – Kilcar GAA (talk) nominated for deletion by Wuhwuzdat; see discussion.

The demise of the black book

Someone might find this or this or this useful as a source. Discovered this and this and this as well for further mentions of this now extinct species. It would make a wonderful DYK if someone could find enough information. I'm not sure it's even mentioned at black book... --can dle •wicke 01:18, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

Books

Hello from France. I do organize the WikiProject Gaelic games in the french Wikipedia. I do looking for books about gaelic games. Can you give me a short liste of very good books about gaelic games ? Thanks a lot for your help. Matpib (talk) 20:21, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

Hi Matpib. Are you just asking for recommendations of books about Gaelic games in a general way or are you asking for books that might be useful as Wikipedia references? Tameamseo (talk) 11:47, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

Responded on user talk page. Tameamseo (talk) 14:51, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

Father Casey's

Does this club meet notability requirements? I know that it's copied word for word from the club's website, that issue is being addressed (hopefully), but is the club notable? Who then was a gentleman? (talk) 22:25, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

Well, having won the Limerick Senior Football Championship would usually be taken as just about enough to suggest the club is notable. I'll see if I can help and add some sources. Tameamseo (talk) 11:47, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

also see the long article that already exists on the irish wikipedia here

Great. Thanks. Who then was a gentleman? (talk) 21:26, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

Hugh Martin McGurk

For anyone with the time / interest / knowledge there's a new article about Derry footballer Hugh Martin McGurk by an inexperienced user which needs work. Tameamseo (talk) 19:43, 17 July 2009 (UTC)

Ok thanks, I'll give it a look when I get a chance. Derry Boi (talk) 11:00, 19 July 2009 (UTC)

GAN backlog reduction - Sports and recreation

As you may know, we currently have 400 good article nominations, with a large number of them being in the sports and recreation section. As such, the waiting time for this is especially long, much longer than it should be. As a result of this, I am asking each sports-related WikiProject to review two or three of these nominations. If this is abided by, then the backlog should be cleared quite quickly. Some projects nominate a lot but don't review, or vice-versa, and following this should help to provide a balance and make the waiting time much smaller so that our articles can actually get reviewed! Wizardman 23:39, 5 September 2009 (UTC)

User A.Beaz - erroneous edits to North American GAA articles

This user keeps making erroneous edits to Canadian GAA, New York GAA, and previously made some incorrect edits to North American GAA which I reverted. I left him a message on his talk page asking him to be more careful with his edits but he keeps reverting the incorrect information back into the articles, so I reverted one more of his articles and in the edit note I asked him to read his talk page. The incorrect edits in question are that he keeps saying that these GAA units are also provincial councils (they are not) and makes unsourced claims about them competing in the Sam Maguire and Liam McCarthy Cup competitions. Any ideas? --Eamonnca1 (talk) 05:08, 7 September 2009 (UTC)

Maybe should report him to an admin is the only thing I can think off. Derry Boi (talk) 14:23, 7 September 2009 (UTC)

User Mooretwin

This user is attempting what can only be described as a hatchet job on the Gaelic Athletic Association page by inserting dubious POV and OR into the notorious 'criticism' section. He is doing multiple reverts, and is refusing to go with consensus after much discussion on the talk page. It will be noted that this user has previously been barred for a month from wiki for edit warring. Please have a look. --Eamonnca1 (talk) 17:12, 22 September 2009 (UTC)

Football disambiguation discussion

Per the discussion here I'm putting a note on this page inviting anyone interested to contribute to the discussion ongoing there on how best to disambiguate between Gaelic footballers and soccer / association football players. Tameamseo (talk) 13:01, 8 December 2009 (UTC)

Glenflesk GAA

Do Glenflesk GAA meet whatever rules it is you've decided on for inclusion? If they do, the article is currently tagged for speedy deletion, so someone may want to untag it. If it's been deleted before you get the chance to do so, let me know and I'll undelete it. Angus McLellan (Talk) 20:24, 8 December 2009 (UTC)

John Bailey

I have created a page for John Bailey. I don't know much about GAA but I know he was well known for being a controversial chairman in Dublin for 10 years. Would anyone like to add something about his GAA record to this page?

thanks

MoyrossLADY (talk) 21:36, 10 December 2009 (UTC)

Is this the same John Bailey? [4] (talk) 21:43, 10 December 2009 (UTC)

That's him. MoyrossLADY (talk) 13:08, 11 December 2009 (UTC)

Automatic new article list: AlexNewArtBot

I've added WP:GAA to AlexNewArtBot's list, so it's now generating a list of newly created GAA articles every few days. If anyone is familiar with the use of this bot, or has any ideas for further rules to include (so it doesn't miss, or falsely pick up, any articles), details of how the bot works can be found at User:AlexNewArtBot. The current rules can be found at User:AlexNewArtBot/GaelicGames. A log of what articles the rules have been applied to, and how, can be found at User:AlexNewArtBot/GaelicGamesLog. The latest search results are at User:AlexNewArtBot/GaelicGamesSearchResult. Teester (talk) 14:52, 25 December 2009 (UTC)

v t e Governing bodies of the Gaelic Athletic Association
Provinces and counties as defined within Gaelic games
Provincial councils	Connacht Leinster Munster Ulster Britain
Connacht	Galway Leitrim Mayo Roscommon Sligo
Leinster	Carlow Dublin Kildare Kilkenny Laois Longford Louth Meath Offaly Westmeath Wexford Wicklow
Munster	Clare Cork Kerry Limerick Tipperary Waterford
Ulster	Antrim Armagh Cavan Derry Donegal Down Fermanagh Monaghan Tyrone
Britain	Gloucestershire Hertfordshire Lancashire London Scotland Warwickshire Yorkshire
Other counties	Asian Australasia Canada Europe New York United States
Non-county bodies	Annual Congress Deutscher Bund Gälischer Sportarten Féile na nGael Higher Education Irish Collegiate Handball Association Games Administration Committee Scór
Associated bodies	GAA Handball Camogie Association Ladies' Gaelic Football Association
Structure of the Gaelic Athletic Association