Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Thailand/Archives/2022

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Discussion at Wikipedia:Bots/Requests for approval/TolBot 13

 You are invited to join the discussion at Wikipedia:Bots/Requests for approval/TolBot 13. Tol (talk | contribs) @ 23:11, 10 January 2022 (UTC)

Reliable sources

Would there happen to be a list of reliable and unreliable sources? Btspurplegalaxy 🗩 🖉 21:27, 24 January 2022 (UTC)

Need help on my draft

I need help from an experienced Wikipedian to get my draft approved. I have tried my best, but it keeps getting rejected. I need help finding reliable sources. I kindly ask for assistance.Publiconline123 (talk) 07:10, 26 March 2022 (UTC)

Draft:Nalinthip Sakulongumpai Publiconline123 (talk) 15:05, 25 March 2022 (UTC)

Wikimedia Thailand legal registration

Some of you may be aware of the existence of Wikimedia Thailand, the local chapter that coordinates real-world Wikimedia activities in the country. Currently, community members are discussing options for the chapter's registration as a legal entity in Thailand. Please see the discussion (mainly in Thai) at meta:Talk:Wikimedia Thailand/Registration if you're interested. --Paul_012 (talk) 11:24, 27 March 2022 (UTC)

Thank you. If there is an update, we should post it here in the future. --Taweetham (talk) 14:57, 27 March 2022 (UTC)

FAR for Durian

I have nominated Durian for a featured article review here. Please join the discussion on whether this article meets featured article criteria. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. If substantial concerns are not addressed during the review period, the article will be moved to the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Delist" the article's featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. Hog Farm Talk 17:38, 2 April 2022 (UTC)

WMTH activity: WikiForHumanRights

FYI. m:Talk:Wikimedia Thailand/WikiForHumanRights We will launch this in the near future. The details can still be changed. Your input is valuable to the organizer team. WMTH activities cover both English and Thai Wikipedia and other sister projects. The discussion page is still however in Thai for the convenience of the majority of the participants. With international sponsors, we do have bilingual project pages such as m:Wikimedia_Thailand/WikiGap_2022. --Taweetham (talk) 03:28, 3 April 2022 (UTC)

WMTH activity: Withdrawal of Bangkok from upcoming Wikimania

FYI. อภิปรายการถอนตัวของกรุงเทพฯ จากวิกิเมเนีย --Taweetham (talk) 12:49, 15 April 2022 (UTC)

User script to detect unreliable sources

Main page: User:Headbomb/unreliable

I have (with the help of others) made a small user script to detect and highlight various links to unreliable sources and predatory journals. Some of you may already be familiar with it, given it is currently the 39th most imported script on Wikipedia. The idea is that it takes something like

  • John Smith "Article of things" Deprecated.com. Accessed 2020-02-14. (John Smith "[https://www.deprecated.com/article Article of things]" ''Deprecated.com''. Accessed 2020-02-14.)

and turns it into something like

It will work on a variety of links, including those from {{cite web}}, {{cite journal}} and {{doi}}.

The script is mostly based on WP:RSPSOURCES, WP:NPPSG and WP:CITEWATCH and a good dose of common sense. I'm always expanding coverage and tweaking the script's logic, so general feedback and suggestions to expand coverage to other unreliable sources are always welcomed.

Do note that this is not a script to be mindlessly used, and several caveats apply. Details and instructions are available at User:Headbomb/unreliable. Questions, comments and requests can be made at User talk:Headbomb/unreliable.

- Headbomb {t · c · p · b}

This is a one time notice and can't be unsubscribed from. Delivered by: MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 16:02, 29 April 2022 (UTC)

Prime Minister of Thailand and Governor of Bangkok: Ordinal number in infoboxes?

There is currently a dispute: In articles about former and incumbent Prime Ministers of Thailand and also Governor of Bangkok, should the "Ordinal number" be add in the infobox containing the minister's and the governor’s number?

Example: It should be "20th Prime Minister of Thailand" instead of "Prime Minister of Thailand" or "17th Governor of Bangkok" instead of "Governor of Bangkok".

MayThe2nd (talk) 14:46, 9 June 2022 (UTC)

Agree with 7 reasons:
1. All Thai wikipedia articles about Prime minister of Thailand and Governor of Bangkok have an ordinal number in an infobox.
2. All of President of the United States wikipedia articles have an ordinal number before their title in an infobox such as Barack Obama, Donald Trump, and Joe Biden.
3. Some Prime Ministers of Thailand were held this position again in nonconsecutive terms such as Chuan Leekpai.
If you know that Thaksin Shinawatra is 23rd Prime Minister of Thailand and you know that Thaksin Shinwatra’s predecessor is Chuan Leekpai.
Chuan Leekpai is not 22nd but 20th Prime Minister of Thailand because Chuan Leekpai has held this position twice in nonconsecutive terms.
4. Sometime when people surfing the internet and going to read an article on people may read only an infobox of the article so if an infobox just have an ordinal number to indicate order of Prime Minister of Thailand and Governor of Bangkok,that are significant positions in a country, it would better than an infobox that does not have an ordinal number.
5. There aren’t any ordinal numbers to indicate on List of prime ministers of Thailand so adding an ordinal number in an infobox in English wikipedia article of Prime minister of Thailand and Governor of Bangkok would be better.
6. At least 50 different Sovereign states’ English wikipedia articles about Prime Minister have an ordinal number in an infobox.
You can check the list of examples of Prime Minister’s English Wikipedia Article that have an ordinal number before title in an infobox here.
7. Isn't it useful information to add in an infobox?
MayThe2nd (talk) 14:54, 9 June 2022 (UTC)
Forgive my ignorance. I guess I'm only wondering if the numbering scheme is completely standardized or not. Are there different parties calming a different order? For instance, a prime minister being viewed as illegitimate by some, or nonconsecutive terms only counting for one number instead of multiple. Grover Cleveland comes to mind, being the 22nd and 24th US President. If none of this is the case, and the order is straightforward and uncontested, I'd agree that ordinal numbers are totally appropriate for the infobox. TheSavageNorwegian 16:35, 10 June 2022 (UTC)
Hi, Thesavagenorwegian. Thanks for agreed to this suggestion. About Grover Cleveland that he is the 22nd and 24th US President because he was served two non-consecutive terms. But in Thai system, we don’t count same people twice. Chuan Leekpai served two non-consecutive terms, like Grover Cleveland, but he is 20th Prime Minister of Thailand as the same. So Thai system making no discrepancy between the number of Prime Minister and the number of persons who have served as Prime Minister. And that system can adapt with how Thai count Governor of Bangkok too. Hope this help, MayThe2nd (talk) 17:25, 10 June 2022 (UTC)

This doesn't seem like something that should have necessarily required an RfC. If I understand the situation correctly, a certain user (along with several IPs) unilaterally removed the order numbers from several articles, starting an edit war, and refused to engage in discussion. Seems like a simple case of retaining the status quo, seeing as it's long been common practice in the large majority of articles and no reasons against it have been put forward.. --Paul_012 (talk) 20:32, 17 June 2022 (UTC)

MayThe2nd, it's been a while. A month, to be precise. You may like to implement your suggestion as noone seems to have voiced opposition. ~ ToBeFree (talk) 05:26, 11 July 2022 (UTC)
ToBeFree, Am I allow to revert it back to "Ordinal number" version? MayThe2nd (talk) 07:53, 11 July 2022 (UTC)
MayThe2nd, yes, you should be able to go ahead. --Paul_012 (talk) 09:59, 16 July 2022 (UTC)
Paul_012, Thanks a lot. –– MayThe2nd (talk) 10:49, 18 July 2022 (UTC)
 Done –– MayThe2nd (talk) 11:30, 18 July 2022 (UTC)

Help with sources

I recently moved this article from mainspace to draft per WP:DRAFTIFY. I believe the subject is notable and may have significant coverage in Thai sources, but as somebody not at all familiar with the language I've struggled to find any. Any help would be appreciated. Cheers. – 2.O.Boxing 21:36, 17 June 2022 (UTC)

Help with movie draft

Hi, I recently wrote a draft on the movie, The Antique Shop (Draft:The Antique Shop), which is short of one or two reviews before it can be pushed to the mainspace with minimal notability issues. I have trouble finding reviews online as the movie has only been released in Thailand. Can someone here help to find usable sources (and also help add to the review/reception section, and also help to correct whatever mistakes I may have inadvertently make relying on Google Translate. I tried, but I don't know how accurate it is.)? Thanks! – robertsky (talk) 06:49, 20 June 2022 (UTC)

Wikimedia ESEAP Conference 2022 on November 18-20 in Sydney, Australia

The Wikimedia East, South East Asia and the Pacific also known as ESEAP will be having an in-person conference in Sydney, Australia on November 18-20. ESEAP is a regional collaborative composed of nationalities & Wikimedia affiliates of Indonesia, Taiwan, Australia, Korea, Thailand, Philippines, Malaysia, Myanmar, New Zealand, Hong Kong, and Vietnam. Membership also include nationalities and informal communities of Brunei, Cambodia, China, Japan, Laos, Macau, Mongolia, Papua New Guinea, Singapore, and Timor Leste.

The goals for the conference are:

  • Strategic discussions: ESEAP Hub governance, process of moving from an informal group to more formal structure aligned with the Hubs/Minimum Criteria for Pilots
  • Partnership, Tools & Skills: Outreach and community collaboration support networks; building a network of skill sets so that communities in the region can provide extra outreach support and collaboration across the region; and
  • Leadership development through building networks that encourage new and wider diversity of participants to enable future growth

For more information, please visit the conference page.

Scholarship application (subsidized air fare, accommodation, and relevant fees) is ongoing. You may go to the scholarship page to know more. Deadline for scholarship application is on 24 July (Sunday) at 12:00 UTC (see your local time) .

We also call for volunteers to the following committees:

  • Scholarship committee
  • Program submissions review committee
  • Communications committee
  • Onsite & technical volunteers

For inquiries, please reach us at eseap.conf@wikimedia.org.au.

Thank you! --Exec8 (talk) 04:49, 16 July 2022 (UTC)

WMTH: Wikivoyage volunteers are needed at incubator in 2023

This is a copy of WMTH announcement on Thai Wikipedia and all sister projects.

It is expected to close in 14 days. Taweetham (talk) 02:11, 6 September 2022 (UTC)

 Done closed --Taweetham (talk) 03:44, 16 October 2022 (UTC)

RIP Ahoerstemeier

I'm sad to announce that Ahoerstemeier has passed away (see hiscondolence page on the German Wikipedia). Since he did a lot of the groundwork on articles about Thai districts and made an appearance on the project talk page relatively recently, I thought it was worth mentioning his passing here. Graham87 10:40, 28 September 2022 (UTC)

  • I'm saddened to hear. His passing is a great loss to the project. Few have contributed as much as Andy did to Wikipedia's early coverage of Thailand, especially its provinces and districts, most articles of which he practically single-handedly created way back, between 2003 and 2007. It's surreal to think it's been nearly twenty years already. Few of the active contributors at the time who knew him well are still around, but the groundwork he helped lay has proved an important foundation to Wikipedia's Thailand coverage, and I am sure will continue to be long into the future. --Paul_012 (talk) 12:22, 28 September 2022 (UTC)
  • Sorry to hear about his passing. I could have engaged or learnt more from Ahoerstemeier but this is now too late. His legacy will inspire the next generation of volunteers. [1] --Taweetham (talk) 04:01, 16 October 2022 (UTC)

WMTH Bylaws

This is a copy of WMTH announcement on Thai Wikipedia and all sister projects.

It is expected to close in 14 days. Tanapatjms (talk) 06:39, 17 October 2022 (UTC)

 Done closed. @Tanapatjms: --Taweetham (talk) 06:24, 19 November 2022 (UTC)

User:ศักดา กุลนาแพง

I'm wondering whether anyone from this WikiProject might be able to help out ศักดา กุลนาแพง. They're posting things on their user talk page that I think are in Thai, but I'm not sure. There isn't a template for Thai in Category:Non-English welcome messages and I'm not sure they will be able to understand {{uw-notenglishtalk}}. Most of their edits have been in the user namespace, but it looks like they did try to ask for help on some other user's talk page and at the Help Desk. The messages were, however, not in English so they were just deleted. If their posts are in Thai, then perhaps someone could try and explain to them that English is preferred on English Wikipedia and that they should try editing at Thai Wikipedia if they want to edit in Thai. I tried using Google translate for some of their posts and it looks like they might be trying to create either an autobiography or some other article on their user talk page. -- Marchjuly (talk) 09:19, 22 October 2022 (UTC)

@Marchjuly: The user is blocked indefinitely but we will look into creating a Thai version in Category:Non-English welcome messages. --Taweetham (talk) 06:27, 19 November 2022 (UTC)
@Marchjuly: Please confirm if Template:Welcome-foreign/Thai is the only page to be translated. I have quickly changed other associated pages but not sure if something is still missing. --Taweetham (talk) 06:37, 19 November 2022 (UTC)
Hi Taweetham. Thank you for creating {{Welcomeen-th}} and {{Welcome-foreign/Thai}}. If you could translate the bottom "Welcomeen-th" section into Thai, then everything should be good to go. -- Marchjuly (talk) 11:44, 20 November 2022 (UTC)
 Done @Marchjuly: --Taweetham (talk) 03:10, 22 November 2022 (UTC)

"Proper lead" in Year in Thailand articles

Referring to Talk:2022 in Thailand#Lead in Year article, there is a discussion to determine what details make "proper leads" in Year in Thailand articles (eg. 2022 in Thailand). Some suggest that they should include regnal year, Rattanakosin Era and Buddhist Era (the current status quo). But there is no precedence in other similar articles whether Year in United Kingdom or Year in Japan articles. Even in Year articles, such as 2022, leads include summary of important events and not comparing multiple calendars. So I propose that Year in Thailand articles should follow the style as in year articles. Horus (talk) 11:38, 21 November 2022 (UTC)

I tag @Paul 012: for notification. --Horus (talk) 11:43, 21 November 2022 (UTC)

Thanks for the ping. If I remember correctly, the current format was introduced by me in the 1932 in Siam article, which introduces the list as such:

The year 1932 was the 151st year of the Rattanakosin Kingdom of Siam (now known as Thailand). It was the eighth year in the reign of King Prajadhipok (Rama VII), and is reckoned as year 2474 (1 January – 31 March) and 2475 (1 April – 31 December) in the Buddhist Era. The year is most notable in the history of Thailand as the year in which the abolition of absolute monarchy by the Khana Ratsadon took place, on 24 June.

I believe the details provide important context for the reader's understanding of the topic, at least in that article.

  • Mentioning the Rattanakosin Kingdom places the year within the broader era of Thai history, which is pertinent for 1932 as it marks the end of the absolute monarchy period, which is commonly associated with the kingdom name.
  • Naming the reign provides the reader with the historical timeframe, which is one of the most significant pieces of information in the study of Thai history, especially in the absolute monarchy period.
  • The number of years into the kingdom and the reign aren't that important in and of themselves, but I included them for additional context, considering that 1932 was the sesquicentenary of Rattanakosin, and that the regnal year is prominently featured in legal documents up to today. The intention for these was not to provide conversions between multiple calendars.
  • However, it is the intention for giving the Buddhist Era reckoning, which is extremely important, as it is the official system used in Thailand and readers are likely to encounter it when studying the topic.
  • The summary of important events should of course be included for each year list article, though it's been done for only a few.

You do have a point in that the kingdom and regnal years don't seem very relevant especially to recent years, which are more within the scope of current events than historical study. But I'd say such contextualisation is consistent with properly developed year articles, which do note the year's calendar designations and order in the millennium, century, and decade. The 2022 article in your example says it's "the 2022nd year of the Common Era (CE) and Anno Domini (AD) designations, the 22nd year of the 3rd millennium and the 21st century, and the 3rd year of the 2020s decade." I think the status quo gives the equivalent information for Thailand-specific year articles, and already follows the style in year articles as you suggest.

That said, I don't feel strongly about the kingdom/reign years, and won't mind either keeping or dropping them. Naming the reigning monarch might not be as important compared to more distant history, but I'm still not quite convinced about removing this. I do think the Buddhist Era reckoning should always be given in the opening, per the above. This is consistent with Japan articles e.g. 1992 in Japan (though this has indeed been neglected for more recent years).

In any case, actual summaries for each individual year should of course be written. The problem is that the vast majority of year in country articles were created en masse by editors who didn't care to properly develop them, and few have bothered to do so. --Paul_012 (talk) 17:09, 21 November 2022 (UTC)

Rattanakosin Era and regnal years have no official use in Thailand, so they can be easily discarded (i.e. there is no Bhumibol or Vajiralongkorn Era, so it should not be compared to Heisei or Reiwa). The only calendar that should be discussed further is Buddhist Era. While it is still used officially, I would argue that Thais learned to communicate with foreigners in Common Era. BE has rare use in English context; I have only seen BE in translated Thai laws, and even then there is often a corresponding Common Era in parenthesis. So my take is lean towards dropping them. (I guess I make a case for Rattanakosin Era when it was shortly used, but should we go there?)
Given the purpose of the lead is to summarize the article, I see no reason to put readers into "context." I mean if that is the case, this could also be argued to include years of each Prime Minister (e.g. Prayuth's 7th-8th year) or Chula Sakarat 1384 (Chula Sakarat is actually used longer than BE in Thailand, any BE before Rama VI's introduction is calculated from other calendars.) In other words, we should see more precedence in Wikipedia if the need for contextualisation is really intended, even if most similar articles are stubs as you pointed out. --Horus (talk) 05:54, 22 November 2022 (UTC)
Well, I don't have a problem with dropping those apart from the Buddhist Era. (Though to keep comparing, 2022 being the 3rd year of the 2020s and the 22nd year of the 21st century is pretty obvious in itself and not necessary either; one could likewise say it's just included to pad the lead with more text, but let's not go there.) The BE I'd still argue is informational and helpful for readers, who aren't limited to foreigners communicating with Thai people who know such sensibilities. Readers coming to Wikipedia may be looking at sources other than well-written English-language ones; they may be travelling in Thailand, studying official documents, looking at Thai websites (or badly designed ones such as Google which forces the BE year upon the user based on IP location regardless of their settings), etc. And as people are increasingly using machine translation, it's very likely that they'll come across BE years and find noting them helpful where relevant. And even if some readers won't, what's the harm in including them? It's not like they're causing huge clutter, especially if we remove the other stuff you're objecting to.
Now, if we're to remove the order of the year relative to the kingdom foundation and the reign, the tricky issue will be rewriting the opening so that it still reads naturally. Let's use the current opening for 2020 in Thailand as an example, as it already has a somewhat serviceable summary:

The year 2020 is the 239th year of the Rattanakosin Kingdom of Thailand. It is the fifth year in the reign of King Vajiralongkorn (Rama X), and is reckoned as year 2563 in the Buddhist Era. The year was most significantly marked the by the global COVID-19 pandemic, which reached Thailand in January, as well as widespread youth-led protest movements against the government and for reform of the monarchy.

Maybe it could be something like this?
  • The year 2020, officially reckoned as year 2563 in the Buddhist Era, is a year in the reign of King Vajiralongkorn of Thailand. The year was most significantly marked the by the global COVID-19 pandemic...
This still reads awkwardly though. Might be easier to drop the reign altogether and shorten it further:
  • The year 2020 in Thailand, officially reckoned as year 2563 in the Buddhist Era, was most significantly marked the by the global COVID-19 pandemic...
This of course requires that a summary of the year's events actually exists, to complete the sentence. Which might not be a bad idea, if it results in leads being developed accordingly. --Paul_012 (talk) 16:23, 22 November 2022 (UTC)
The last example seems fine enough. Although the first paragraph could just be an introduction, such as "Events from the year 2022 in Thailand, officially reckoned as ..." or "The following is a list of events from the year 2022 in Thailand, officially reckoned as ...", and then start mentioning events in the next paragraphs. --Horus (talk) 11:21, 23 November 2022 (UTC)
Beginning with "Events..." will be against the MOS if doesn't form a full sentence, and "This/the following is a list of..." should specifically be avoided per the second point of MOS:LEADSENTENCE. They're unfortunately common violations due to ignorance of the MOS, but list articles should introduce the topic as regular topics would be. --Paul_012 (talk) 15:59, 24 November 2022 (UTC)

Requested move at Talk:The Buddha

The page which had been Gautama Buddha was unsuccessfully proposed for a change to Siddhartha Gautama, then successfully changed to The Buddha, and is now being proposed for a change to Buddha. Your input and expertise would be most welcome at: Talk:The_Buddha#Requested_move_25_November_2022 Best, Fowler&fowler«Talk» 04:07, 27 November 2022 (UTC)

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